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Old 08-24-2004, 12:51 AM   #51
PeterR
 
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Dojo: Shodokan Honbu (Osaka)
Location: Himeji, Japan
Join Date: Mar 2001
Posts: 3,318
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Re: Assaulted in a bar

Hmmm. I have an idea what we are talking about but in any case Sunday will be interesting.

Ditto on the end of the year with respect to grading - if the requirement percolates up it is something I don't need.

Peter Rehse Shodokan Aikido
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Old 08-24-2004, 04:47 AM   #52
George S. Ledyard
 
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Dojo: Aikido Eastside
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Re: Assaulted in a bar

Quote:
Bodhi Richards wrote:
Actually, a bouncer isn't a sworn officer acting in the public interest. He/she is a private security officer, most often not licensed as someone intimated, and is not authorized by law in most jurisdictions to lay hands on another unless the individual in question poses an imedeate physical danger to himself, the individual or a third party.
Actually, Bodhi, In most jurisdictions as employees of a private business, in this case club security, they have the right to physically intervene even if there is no immediate threat. A club with a dress code can throw you out if you refuse to leave on your own steam just because you aren't dressed according to their code. You can be asked to leave if your behavior is objectionable, even if it presents no immediate threat, if you refuse they can go hands on. A store employee can restrain you if you are caught shoplifting even though you offer no threat. Personal protection personnel can be physical simply in oreder to prevent you from getting into position to present a threat to their principal.

The legal standard simply calls for the amount of force used to be "reasonable" based on the threat presented by the subject.

George S. Ledyard
Aikido Eastside
Bellevue, WA
Aikido Eastside
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Old 08-26-2004, 12:25 PM   #53
Cyrijl
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Posts: 188
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Re: Assaulted in a bar

Bodhi Richards --- lol

The police (at least here in america), do not have to talk to you at all. Even if they have to use physical force. There are cases when force is used to gain control and then the talking is done...i am sure it is similar in finland.

The law, lol.

melior est canis vivus leone mortuo
Bog svsami!!!
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Old 08-26-2004, 01:53 PM   #54
disabledaccount
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Re: Assaulted in a bar

Quote:
George S. Ledyard wrote:
You can be asked to leave if your behavior is objectionable, even if it presents no immediate threat, if you refuse they can go hands on.

The legal standard simply calls for the amount of force used to be "reasonable" based on the threat presented by the subject.
Ah, and herein lies the crux of my argument, According to the victim, the bouncer failed to make a verbal demand that the victim leave before laying on of hands took place. If this is truly the case, and the victim did not intentionally mislead us in his account (I admit this is a BIG if), the bouncer did not act within the confines of the law.

Quote:
Joseph Connolly wrote:
Bodhi Richards --- lol

The police (at least here in america), do not have to talk to you at all. Even if they have to use physical force. There are cases when force is used to gain control and then the talking is done...i am sure it is similar in finland.

The law, lol.
This is funnier than you think. I'm currently working on a riminal Justice degree and attending the local police academy. Sure I'm less than a rookie, but on the other hand, I've got a bit more clarity than most on what authority an officer can exercise use of force.

I'm surprised at the number of flames guys, especially since most of you are advocating support for a pacifistic response to an attacker.
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Old 08-26-2004, 03:17 PM   #55
disabledaccount
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Re: Assaulted in a bar

Oh shoot, what happened to our edit button? I misspelled Criminal Justice. Guess I'll have to get used to using the spehl chequer from here on.
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