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Old 12-12-2002, 08:40 AM   #26
akiy
 
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Quote:
Damien Bohler (shadow) wrote:
saburi is suburi.... ive just read it written as saburi many times so i write it as such and my sensei writes it that way too.
The correct way to transliterate that term is "suburi."

-- Jun

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Old 08-13-2004, 06:22 PM   #27
siwilson
Dojo: Kenshinkai Yoshinkan Aikido
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Ai symbol Re: Solo Practice???

Quote:
paul watt wrote:
Simon,


I do. The basics involve blending, leading, timing, redirecting, maai, kazushi and other things that can only occur when there is a relationship between two or more people.

I'll just agree to disagree with you and let it go at that.

Regards,

Paul


Looked back and saw this! I think he missed the point that we are talking about solo practice!!!!!!

Osu!
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Old 08-15-2004, 07:29 AM   #28
paw
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Re: Solo Practice???

Quote:
Si Wilson wrote:


Looked back and saw this! I think he missed the point that we are talking about solo practice
Respectfully, I didn't miss the point and was well aware that we were discussing solo practice. Ironically, I believe you completely missed my point.

If a tennis player said that don't have a ball or a net, just a racket and then asked what could they do to practice tennis. I'd say, watch a match, read a tennis book, or improve your physical conditioning.

In a similar fashion, I believe that while one could roll around (to improve ukemi), tenkan around (to improve footwork) and pretend to perform a technique on an invisible partner, that IMO would be a waste of time as it would not improve one's aikido much, if at all...and in the course of this thread I explained why I believe that to be true.

Instead, I would answer,as I did in my first post...work on your physical conditioning. A pursuit that has huge benefits not only to aikido but to life itself.

If, after all this time you do not understand why I believe it is better to work on your physical conditioning, then it is best that we simply agree to disagree.

Regards,

Paul
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Old 08-15-2004, 12:07 PM   #29
siwilson
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Re: Solo Practice???

So we in the Yoshinkan are wasting our time with the Kihon Dosa???

Osu!
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Old 08-15-2004, 06:10 PM   #30
paw
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Re: Solo Practice???

Quote:
Si Wilson wrote:
So we in the Yoshinkan are wasting our time with the Kihon Dosa???
I'm not sure what your getting at. (I'm not familiar with Yoshinkan or it's training method...I've been Aikikai or more specifically ASU.)

Frankly, I suspect you're baiting me to prove yourself "right". I have no desire to do likewise. I've expressed my opinion and given reasons for it. You are free to evaluate my opinion and adopt it or reject it as best you see fit. If you enjoy your training, that's great. Keep at it.


Regards,

Paul
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Old 08-15-2004, 06:25 PM   #31
siwilson
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Re: Solo Practice???

First you need to know how to stand (Kamae).

Next you need to know how to move (Kihon Dosa), which you can't do if you don't know how to stand (Kamae).

Next you need to know how to do basic technique (Kihon Waza), which you can't do if you don't know how to move (Kihon Dosa), which you can't do if you don't know how to stand (Kamae).

Next you need to be able to do technique in a free continuous flowing movement (Resoku Dosa) in freestyle technique (Jiyu Waza), which you can't do if you can't do basic technique (Kihon Waza), which you can't do if you don't know how to move (Kihon Dosa), which you can't do if you don't know how to stand (Kamae).

So Jiyu Waza comes from Kihon Waza, which comes from Kihon Dosa, which comes from Kamae.

Kamae is in everything, all movement and technique. It is solo practice.

Kihon Dosa is the movement that is in all the technique: Tai No Henko teaches the flow, Kiriki No Yosei teaches the focus, and Shumatsu Dosa theaches the Zanshin (or finish) of technique. This is solo practice (although it is practiced with a partner, but mainly solo).

I hope this may give you some insight in to why we value solo practice so much.

Regards,

Last edited by siwilson : 08-15-2004 at 06:28 PM.

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Old 08-16-2004, 02:14 PM   #32
siwilson
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Freaky! Re: Solo Practice???

Quote:
Kiriki No Yosei
Oops! Typing error!!!

"Hiriki No Yosei"


Osu!
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Old 08-17-2004, 04:52 AM   #33
maikerus
Dojo: Roppongi Yoshinkan Aikido / Roppongi, Tokyo, Japan
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Re: Solo Practice???

Quote:
Si Wilson wrote:
So Jiyu Waza comes from Kihon Waza, which comes from Kihon Dosa, which comes from Kamae.

Kamae is in everything, all movement and technique. It is solo practice.
Good post...very Yoshinkan

There is also some argument that Kamae comes from Seiza. After all, isn't seiza just kamae without the legs? That would mean everything comes from seiza!

Now we know what to do when we watch TV and need some solo practice at the same time!

cheers,

--Michael

Last edited by maikerus : 08-17-2004 at 04:54 AM. Reason: Because

Hiriki no yosei 3 - The kihon that makes your head ache instead of your legs
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Old 08-17-2004, 12:22 PM   #34
siwilson
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Re: Solo Practice???

Quote:
Michael Stuempel wrote:
There is also some argument that Kamae comes from Seiza.
You mean as in Seiza Ho?

From Kamae.

"Seiza Ho - Ichi!"

Without moving your feet, drop the back knee to the floor. It should land next to your front foot.

"Ni!"

Bring your front knee back next to your back knee, toes under.

"San!"

Push your hips forward to make your toes go flat.

You should now be in Seiza.

"Kuritsu!"

Pull your hips back to bring your toes under.

"Ni!"

Bring your right foot forward next to your left knee.

"San!"

Without moving your feet, stand up. You should be in Kamae.


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Old 08-17-2004, 07:55 PM   #35
maikerus
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Re: Solo Practice???

Quote:
Si Wilson wrote:
You mean as in Seiza Ho?
Seiza Ho is the easiest way of seeing it, but if you sit in seiza (for example, while watching TV) you can still focus on the same things as you do in Kamae.

Examples:

1. Weight forward, balancing 60-40 with your knees taking more of the weight than your ankles (same as Kamae balance). Should feel like you might be able to slide a very thin piece of paper between your ankles and your butt.

2. Slightly push your knees together, with the feeling of rolling them forward and towards your center (same as the way you spiral/push your knee around and over your toe in Kamae)

3. Push the tops of your toes slightly into the mat (as you push the outside edge of your back foot into the mat in Kamae) ready to push off them if you need to get up quickly. Note: foot is flat so its the top of your toe that's touching the mat.

4. Back straight (as in Kamae)

5. Chin slightly back, head straight, looking forward, tongue lightly touching the top of the mouth (as in Kamae)

6. Shoulders down and slightly back (as in Kamae)

7. The arm shape as the hands rest on the top of the thighs is also very similar to the arm shape in kamae. Just down, not out.

So...Just sitting there and working on your posture is good for your Seiza, your Kamae, your Kihon Dosa, your Kihon Waza, your ... you get the idea.

A few Yoshinkan thoughts,

--Michael

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Hiriki no yosei 3 - The kihon that makes your head ache instead of your legs
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Old 08-20-2004, 04:41 PM   #36
siwilson
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Re: Solo Practice???

Hi Michael

I would say it is the other way around, that Seiza comes from Kamae. The reason for thinking that is that your seiza should reflect your kamae, but I have never come across kamae reflecting seiza!!!



As with all things, it is not black and white, but has quite a bit of grey!

All the best,

Si

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Old 08-20-2004, 11:07 PM   #37
maikerus
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Re: Solo Practice???

Hey Si...its those shades of grey that make it interesting. :-)

I have no idea which came first, but one thought is that the kamae we practice in Yoshinkan was only introduced relatively recently, but people have been sitting in seiza for eons.

And, I'd rather practice seiza while watching TV than Kamae...

--Mchael

Hiriki no yosei 3 - The kihon that makes your head ache instead of your legs
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