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Old 03-14-2001, 09:16 AM   #51
PeterR
 
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Thanks for the heads up on this Jun however it looks like other Tomiki stylists have covered the base fairly well. As you know (and the probable reason for the notice) I spent four years doing Shodokan Aikido in Japan, three at Honbu, and continue to teach and train in the style along with forays into Aikikai.

I would like to emphasize a few points.

"Americanized Tomiki Bullshit"
I must say that this reflects a profound ignorance not only of Aikido history but budo in general. Stanley Pranin of Aikido Journal has written a good summary of Kenji Tomiki http://www.aikidojournal.com/article...enjiTomiki.asp althouth there are some points I would add.

Lets just say that after 30 years with Ueshiba Kenji Tomiki introduced competition into Aikido. The push for this was a successful attempt to reintroduce Aikido into the university system. Much Budo and especially Aikido was looked upon with suspicion considering it's links with the military and convicted war criinals (Tojo studied Aikido). There was no complete break with Ueshiba over this although the latter had strong misgivings. For example, Tomiki taught at Aikikai Honbu for several more years, was present at Tohei's ninth dan party and I have a tape were the current head of the style is demonstrating at an Aikikai function in 1989. Tomiki's introduction of his system to Kansai Universities was only possible through the support of Aikikai's Kobyashi Shihan and in fact the latter provided further training to Tomiki's chosen successor.

The whole idea of competition and tanto randori is to fill a void left by only practicing kata. It is not knife fighting - the tanto stike's purpose is to provide a strong linear attack. It is also not combat. It is one of many training tools whose lessons are applied to all your Aikido.

One of the most constant arguments against competition is the winning over everything mindset. This also demonstrates a profound misunderstanding of what competition is all about. If the latter reason was all there was too it why enter a competition you know you will loose. We see competition as providing a forum for testing technique and yourself under stress. It is a real eye opener and contrary to some assertations - an ego destroyer. I have seen some ripe egos within non-compeditive organizations mainly because their illusions are never challenged.

Part of the mental struggle is to recognize and contain the negative aspects of competition. Last summer I attended the US Nationals in Virginia and I am very glad to say that our American cousins understand this very well. Good fun, good training, well I was about to say good beer but that would be pushing it.

Peter Rehse Shodokan Aikido
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Old 03-14-2001, 09:27 AM   #52
Sam
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Great post Peter! That seems to have cleared everything up, and I am left with nothing to say.

It is nice to hear from somebody else who is shodokan.
Do you plan to be at mishima stadium in Osaka in October?

Sam Benson
Sheffield Kyogikan, UK
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Old 03-14-2001, 10:18 AM   #53
PeterR
 
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Thanks Sam;

Unless everything falls through I will spend three months this summer at Honbu. It's been two years since I left Japan so besides the Virginia seminar and a could of get togeathers my only training is with the small club I started. They are all fit, young, tough and eager to learn but it is only now that I am getting a feeling of real personal training with them. I need to go back to the source and be shoved around by my betters.

Osaka will be big. I am obligated to try and make that also. This is the 100th aniverseary of Tomiki's birth for those that don't know and to the Japanese it is very very important. I guarantee it will be difficult to learn much but it wont be boring. It is a perfect way to introduce yourself to Japan - low season and the weather is still nice. Take a few extra days. Have you ever been to Japan? I am a fool with last names - you are not the Sam I know?

Peter Rehse Shodokan Aikido
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Old 03-14-2001, 10:39 AM   #54
Sam
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That's great news, Peter.

I am leaving for three months intensive training at the Hombu also. I set off at the end of July, so hopefully I will see you there.

It is the first time for me at the Hombu, but I have met Shihan before on several occasions, so I know what to look forward to. Also my instructor is a student of shihan so hopefully I will be able to fit in without causing any problems. Any advice on this front?

At the moment I am training all I can to be ready - my feet are in absolute tatters.
Hopefully when I get to Japan I will also be able to join in with some of the university students training for randori - apparently they are the ones to keep up with?

I am also terrible with names, but if you were in Brisbane for the last worlds I probably will recognise you from then.

Anyway, good luck with the training - I look forward to seeing you in the summer!
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Old 03-14-2001, 11:03 AM   #55
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If the goal of any endeavor is something other than winnnig, than it is not competition. So if the goal of Tomiki competition is not winning, it's not competition. If it's not competition, why have points?

Again, I say that if the goal is learning to apply technique against committed uke who may or may not resist (according the rules)... what special benefit do I get from points?

I think at any one time a person can be ready to learn or ready to compete. And after they've lost, and everyone says "learn from this," you know what wisdom they can take from that loss? That they should be ready to learn more and ready to compete less.

Tim
It's a sad irony: In U's satori, he forgot every technique he ever knew; since then, generations of doka have spent their whole careers trying to remember.
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Old 03-14-2001, 11:23 AM   #56
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Tim - don't get me wrong.

You get out there you want to do well - it feels good, it's fun. However in the process you learn to control your own adrenalin, your own fear and find out what works and what doesn't.

Randori (even full resistance) against a dojo mate is not the same - in competion it in some ways is facing the unknown. Trust me on this facing a guy you don't know that outweighs you be a hundred pounds takes balls.

Sam - email me privately - getting accomodation in Osaka is tough I may be able to hook you up with someone. I am bringing my wife and daughter so I am out of the loop. Also if you have any questions.

You mentioned tanto randori mpegs. Do you have a link for them. If you want we can ask Jun to put them up on his site or I could put them on mine.

Peter Rehse Shodokan Aikido
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Old 03-14-2001, 12:08 PM   #57
Erik
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Quote:
Magma wrote:
Again, I say that if the goal is learning to apply technique against committed uke who may or may not resist (according the rules)... what special benefit do I get from points?
Just a thought from a non-Tomiki person. One of the things I've thought about is how to measure progress in a concrete way. Obviously, everyone gets better over time, but it's always just sort of a vague "they fell!" It's pretty intangible even when you do get a belt. Maybe one benefit of keeping score is that it can act as a measure of progress to see improvement. I could see issues with this, but it seems like at least one beneficial aspect.
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Old 03-14-2001, 12:31 PM   #58
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Hi Erik;

There are some articles written by Tomiki to be found at JAA(USA) site and Shodokan Honbu both of which can be linked from my Dojo home page (see below).

He outlines his reasons pretty clearly but one of his points (excuse the pun) is that by placing your training (this includes both Embu and Randori (tanto and toshu)) in the context of a greater whole you avoid fragmentation. It becomes clear where the quality lies. I am not sure how successful that's been since we too have our fragments but I do believe the competions have helped and over the past few years several splinters have returned to the fold.

I know that only indirectly answers your point but yes competion provides a basis of quality control. Remember it's not just randori.

Just to expamnd slightly on why points. In the old days shiai basically meant to the death. This is not a training option for me thank you. Even during the days surrounding the formation of the Kodokan there were matches between Jujitsu schools and the practice of just going out onto the street to pick fights with the biggest bruiser. Both of these latter options were brutal but generated superbly trained individuals. In the absence of staying alive or in the latter case last man standing contests - points offer a reasonably safe alternative. A short term goal so to speak. Putting something on the table, life, your arm, moving up the rung, adds something to the equation that would not normally be there. Points is infinately more safer than life.

Peter Rehse Shodokan Aikido
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Old 03-14-2001, 12:31 PM   #59
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Ai symbol

Quote:
Magma wrote:
... what special benefit do I get from points?
Suppose a shodan and a fifth kyu decide to engage in some tanto randori. Both belong to the same organization, and have so both have had to meet the same time/technique requirements before earning their respective ranks, respectively. Also, neither has had any martial arts background prior to beginning aikido. Now imagine that the fifth kyu scored dozens of points, while the shodan earned little to none. The special benefit is that the shodan has learned that he should probably put some extra effort into improving what he already knows.
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Old 03-14-2001, 01:18 PM   #60
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Peter and Brian:
Thank you for your honest answers and your openess. I am enjoying this discussion very much. And Erik, too.

Now back to the discussion at hand:
Quote:
Brian wrote:
Quote:
Magma wrote:
... what special benefit do I get from points?
The special benefit is that the shodan has learned that he should probably put some extra effort into improving what he already knows.
But, to be very specific, this is not a realm of learning where "points" hold the sole purchase. The shodan could have reached this same conclusion from sincere training, couldn't he have?

And Peter, I agree that points do give a stop before "to-the-death," but to what extent does this thug-in-the-street history represent what we are trying to do in aikido? We don't go out between schools and pick fights. I hope that wasn't what you were saying that competition accomplishes...? In addition, how can a competition with banned techniques prepare you better? I think an open mind in the face of escalating violence is of utmost importance, and I can see how focused training on competition style moves may begin to train ruts into the aikidoka's mind. For instance your reaction becomes "this is how my body is going to react because this is what it has always done" instead of "this is how my body is going to react because though I had a multitude of options, this was the best." Do you as competition-participants find this happening?

Hmm. This thread has got me thinking that i want to get with one of our black belts, give him a glove (at least for starters) and have him try to hit me. Really try to hit me. If I'm not back tomorrow you'll know I had an over-inflated belief in what I was capable of.

Tim
It's a sad irony: In U's satori, he forgot every technique he ever knew; since then, generations of doka have spent their whole careers trying to remember.
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Old 03-14-2001, 03:03 PM   #61
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Magma wrote:
But, to be very specific, this is not a realm of learning where "points" hold the sole purchase. The shodan could have reached this same conclusion from sincere training, couldn't he have?
I would say yes, but I've really struggled with this one. A lot of our training takes on a very consistent pattern. We do the same things with the same people over and over. We establish agreements that can stay the same for years unless disturbed somehow. The sempai/kohai etiquette can also get in the way along with our own issues as well. I was unfortunate (or fortunate) to wind up the senior person in the first dojo I trained at 2 years in. The thing I really learned from that experience is that sensei and sempai, for that matter, make fewer mistakes than kohai do. I remember teaching as a brown belt and everyone would tell me how great a class it was. As a brown belt? Not a chance. People fell most of the time too. Again, I don't think so.

I think competition might encourage the beginner, who would normally be afraid of offending their seniors, to attack with a bit more gusto. It can also encourage different ways of looking at things and increase creative responses. I think competition could also spur evolution of a sort.

On the other end, a question for the Tomiki folks comes to mind. Competition (like life in this specific context) tends to favor youth, strength, speed and athleticism. We talk a lot in Aikido about this not being the case, and skill with experience does count, but all things being equal these variables win out in physical competition. How do you address the fact that someone older, slower or whatever will have a significant disadvantage against someone younger?
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Old 03-14-2001, 04:14 PM   #62
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Good question Erik et al.. and trust me (says the devil) I don't mind answering. A sincere question, even if you don't agree with the answer, beats the hell out of - well you know what I mean.

First of all skill levels being equal, strength and speed do come into play but there are many ways of resisting an attack besides force. In Virginia last summer (US Nationals) the winner of the Men's Tanto Randori and the Free Style Embu (kata) was Michael McCavish from Honbu Dojo. This is not a coincidence since the two are very closely linked. The best in one are usually very good in the other. Michael by the way is pushing (maybe past) 40 yet he consistently beats the young-uns. The reason is control and experience - weapons he uses real well.

At Honbu far less than 10% of the time is taken up doing randori training exercises. In fact randori itself is usually done after class by those interested. The bulk of the training is kata and basic exercises.

Finally the question of ingrained response. This is something that you must avoid under all training regimes. For those in non-Tomiki dojos examine your training practice and try to determine where this occurs - you will not have to look far. It is part of the over-all mental training to constantly examine yourself for weakness and programmed responses. A knowledge of what randori is and what it is not is intimate to this process.

There are lessons learnt from randori (both training and shiai) that are applicable to the performance of kata and to the application of aikido and conversly lessons learnt during kata performance that are applied to randori. Nothing works in isolation. If however you were to ask me where I obtained most of my self defence skills it is through the Koryu Goshin no Kata (Old style self defence) which contain some absolutely brutal techniques. The level of understanding of the kata (I like to think I manage OK) was indeed made possible through randori practice.


Peter Rehse Shodokan Aikido
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Old 03-14-2001, 04:24 PM   #63
Karl Kuhn
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Interesting thread here!

In my experience the criticisms of Shodokan Aikido and it's Randori Shiai/Competition break down into two camps: one that says there is no such thing allowed and another that says that it is not real enough. It's good to see some middle ground here.

In regards to the point system, it is important that it is understood that points are awarded to good waza, good offensive strikes (if we're talking Tanto Randori, which, well we are now) and points are taken away for not getting out of the way properly or playing within the agreed upon rules. There are degrees of success in the waza and are awarded points accordingly. What this means is that the randori is not an all out sloppy brawl, but that each movement in the course of the match is judged and the total of those desicions is an indication of how well you availed yourself of the principles of Aikido. I say indication because while the judgement of the ref is final it may be different than your impression or that of your opponents. It is also not any sort of ultimate decision about your Aikido, just evidence of strengths and weaknesses that day.

I guess what I am saying is that points do more than make it something other than a death match. They re-enforce the rules of the engagement and the lesson of AIkido in very specific ways.

Concerning the age issue, the current (and I should say long standing) US Men's Tanto Randori Champion is over 50. That being said age is often an issue with some folks. But youth, strength and agility won't win it for you without great Aikido skills.

Hope this helps,

Karl



[Edited by Karl Kuhn on March 14, 2001 at 03:29pm]

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Old 03-21-2001, 05:25 PM   #64
Maputosimon
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Tomiki and competition

Nice to see Tomiki being talked about. I study under John Waite (7th Dan Tomiki), and have done many styles. Purely personal opinion follows...
I would put it to you that there is competition in Ikebana and o-cha - translation: japanese flower arranging and tea-ceremony!!!!!! Who ever said that competition in Bushido needed to involve proactive violence? When I used to study Shotokan and Tae Kwon Do, both known for their dramatic image, I was judged and competed across teams on the accuracy of technique, and slow Kata, almost to the point of it being tai chi. As stated in one of my previous posts about others being attacked, all we normally need is a little movement in any direction by Uke to be able to execute a technique. Obviously, we could deal with very little, or no movement by Uke if we concentrate on the weak line and perfecting the basic techniques, and thus have competition very near to traditional thinking. A final point - a lot of traditional Aikido techniques involve a huge amount of (circular) movement - this facilitates easy competition....or i've just spent 5 minutes typing tosh???

Maputosimon
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Old 03-22-2001, 01:18 AM   #65
jimvance
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Quote:
Magma wrote:
But, to be very specific, this is not a realm of learning where "points" hold the sole purchase. The shodan could have reached this same conclusion from sincere training, couldn't he have?

And Peter, I agree that points do give a stop before "to-the-death," but to what extent does this thug-in-the-street history represent what we are trying to do in aikido? We don't go out between schools and pick fights. I hope that wasn't what you were saying that competition accomplishes...? In addition, how can a competition with banned techniques prepare you better? I think an open mind in the face of escalating violence is of utmost importance, and I can see how focused training on competition style moves may begin to train ruts into the aikidoka's mind.

Hmm. This thread has got me thinking that i want to get with one of our black belts, give him a glove (at least for starters) and have him try to hit me. Really try to hit me. If I'm not back tomorrow you'll know I had an over-inflated belief in what I was capable of.
All apples are fruit, but not all fruit is apples. Sport is a form of competition, but not all competitions are sports. I think that "point" systems push the definitions of what people may be practicing into the sports parameters. That is just my opinion and if that is what you want to do, then by all means do it to the best of your ability. I do not like the generalizations made by non-competitive practitioners to lump competitive styles into the sports/points category. Competition does not have to mean a winner and a loser; I think it does mean "my way" and "your way". Do you flip a coin to see who goes first? Do you time yourself while driving somewhere? If you don't get your way, does that make you a loser? I think that is the biggest misunderstanding in this whole thread. When real connection is made by two or more participants whether in Budo or Tea Ceremony, those participants become one unit. The real test is to maintain that connection despite the competitive attitude. So really "my way" and "your way" becomes something neither of the participants has control of, a third "together way". There is a Zen koan that begins "When a flint strikes a stone, there is a spark." Without understanding the dynamic relationship between KATA (Order: Non-competitive) and RANDORI (Chaos: Competitive) that koan isn't understood. The function of competition isn't just to compete; it is the living flowers sheltered within the vase of prearranged form.
And as far as having someone "really trying to hit you", they should be doing that all the time. Speed and strength are variables that are added as confidence and proficiency increase both in uke and tori. This is not something extra added to competitive practice. While in a freely competitive relationship, the potential and opportunity for different things to occur is the only change. Nothing is banned outside of biting and eye-gouging and out-of-control behavior. I found that in the three and a half years of practice within "non-competitive" Aikido there was plenty of competition going on, all under the banner of "kata".
This is how "competition" is explained to me by my teachers. Competition is the gift given to you by your partner, a problem you have to solve. You are doing the same for them. The one who solves the riddle best remains standing. How you work together and maintain connection while in an adversarial relationship is more important than who gets thrown.

Nuff said.

Jim Vance
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Old 03-22-2001, 04:48 AM   #66
Matt Banks
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I feel if people concentrate on competion practice too much during training, there aikido will suffer in some way. This is because inveitable form suffers during competion, and there are many tecniques which are prohibited during the competion.Thus if these tecniques are not allowed, then people who pracitce competion training in normal classes lose a section of the art. If you want to test your skills in aikido, do a jiuwaza type randori, with multiple attacks and weapons etc. Let uke use any attack, this will test your skills. We practice this alot in training.



Matt Banks

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Old 03-22-2001, 04:50 AM   #67
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I also know of tomiki aikido dojo's who know longer have competion in their training, because they dont agree with it. But if tomiki aiki guys feel that competion helps them, and makes them stronger as a person, then let them do it. Who are we to disagree?




Matt Banks

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Old 03-22-2001, 05:53 AM   #68
Sam
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I'd like to make a different point about traditional aikido rather than tomiki aikido as I seem to spend a lot of time defending it from critisism I would like to be critical myself for a change.
I have gone to quite a few aikikai and yoshinkan training courses and I have no problem with the technical quality of the techniques, however I have found that the students of those styles have very strengthy and aggressive technique.
In tomiki aikido students learn not to use strength because in randori it hinders your performance to such an extent that often it only takes a few rounds of light shiai before that persons outlook is completely changed.
How without randori is it possible to achieve this end?
I also have found that a main difference between tomiki and traditional styles is that students of tomiki style are interested in techniques so as to improve their randori as well as embu. I found traditional style practise to be so obsessed with the martial connotations of each stand alone technique that sometimes the feel of that technique is lost in the 'if you make a mistake I will take advantage of it' mindset. Also the freedom to 'trust the technique' is lost if your uke takes this attitude.
I cannot help but think that if they had randori training there would be an outlet for this and the contsant need to prove oneself and dominate each other would disappear. Then training would probably be much more productive and pleasant.

Please do not take offense as what I have said, as it only relates to my personal experiences and is not a critisism of the quality of traditional aikido, only the learning system.
Instead of taking the view point of ' how can aikido include competition' I wonder if it can survive without it?
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Old 03-22-2001, 08:31 AM   #69
Magma
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Jim Vance,
You build a mountain in your effort to explain a shadow.

I agree with your initial postulate that points tend to move the training into the realm of sport, but then you abandon that, saying that competition is in everyday life and also in our kata training.

I say that if you call something like tomiki style tanto randori a "competition," with full knowledge of *all* of the connotations that word carries, you deserve every "misunderstanding" that that word generates. But are people really misunderstanding? I submit no, but must make one point first.

You say that in any encounter, there may exist some competition, using the example of if you time your drive from point A to point B and fail to meet your goal, "are you a loser?" Your use of the word "loser" here is obsequious and inflammatory, causing every person of any self-esteem at all quickly to reply, "No, not me! I'm no loser!" But people are not running to agree with you in that statement, they are running away from the connotation "loser" has in our culture. Complete honesty would have called for a comparison such as this: if there is competition in my drive-time, then there must be something I am competing against, otherwise there is no challenge and no reward. (One of my instructor's describes a fight the same way - it's not a fight until both people say it's a fight; until then it's just a pick-on). So what was I competing against in my drive? Most basically, time. If I get there ahead of schedule, I win. If I don't, time wins. In that contest, I am the loser; I am not "a" loser, with the connotation you casually employ.

So, back to my question, do people really misunderstand? I don't think so. We are aware that competition can be friendly and that there is competition in every day activities (with so many people pointing it out on this thread, how could it be otherwise?). However, we are also aware that as soon as points are awarded, the focus shifts *onto* the competition. And in an activity such as tanto randori (the tomiki definition), that shift in focus, along with the points, turn it into sport rather than art... rather than budo.

But just so that we're all clear, I don't care if someone wishes to train that way, I just want them to be honest that what they are doing is sport. My questions don't come from a loathing of competition in aikido, but from a desire to learn what benefits people get from it that I don't get from my normal training. I'm looking for something that will make me want to include the tomiki style tanto randori (or other similar competition events) in my daily/monthly training.

Tim
It's a sad irony: In U's satori, he forgot every technique he ever knew; since then, generations of doka have spent their whole careers trying to remember.
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Old 03-22-2001, 12:19 PM   #70
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Right

Quote:
Magma wrote:

But just so that we're all clear, I don't care if someone wishes to train that way, I just want them to be honest that what they are doing is sport. My questions don't come from a loathing of competition in aikido, but from a desire to learn what benefits people get from it that I don't get from my normal training. I'm looking for something that will make me want to include the tomiki style tanto randori (or other similar competition events) in my daily/monthly training.
This is quite the paragraph!

It's both an insult and a complement.

On the one hand you say that_it's your WAY or the highWAY_(the Tomiki people are not being "honest" about their aikido being a "sport"), and on the other that you're honestly trying to understand the benefits of Tomiki training, so as to incorporate aspects into your own training.

Bottom line is: no one is willing to bend - too much time invested in their own aikido.

Jim23

[Edited by Jim23 on March 22, 2001 at 11:48am]

Remember, all generalizations are false
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Old 03-22-2001, 12:41 PM   #71
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OK I'll be honest - a part of Tomiki Aikido is sportive but unlike pregnency (you can't be a little bit pregnent) I can not see how this destroys Tomiki's place as a martial art.

As has been said ad nauseum. Randori supplements kata training. Adding an extra levle of intensity to the training during competition provides further lessons. Which lessons or how it supplements? Well there were several posts in this thread which were very clear.

If your entire training revolved around winning tournaments you would no longer be doing Shodokan Aikido. I can not think of one dojo that works like this.


Peter Rehse Shodokan Aikido
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Old 03-23-2001, 12:08 AM   #72
jimvance
Dojo: Jiyushinkan
Location: Mesa, AZ
Join Date: Dec 2000
Posts: 199
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Cool This IS randori, man!

Quote:
Magma wrote:
Jim Vance,
You build a mountain in your effort to explain a shadow.
That is a great quote. I would have to agree with you. It's my style. Let me say that after reading your post, I saw a couple areas I did not make clear and I would have to agree with you. My intent was not to single you out by the way. I thought you had supplied one of the more intelligent questions in regards to competition in this very LONG thread.


Quote:
I agree with your initial postulate that points tend to move the training into the realm of sport, but then you abandon that, saying that competition is in everyday life and also in our kata training.
You are right, but I don't think I abandoned anything. I just don't think it right to think "sport" every time the word "competition" is used. How can uke give a committed attack without being competitive? And this does not mean that the whole practice is competitive. It is one little controlled version that exists under a greater blanket of cooperation.


Quote:
..."are you a loser?" Your use of the word "loser" here is obsequious and inflammatory, causing every person of any self-esteem at all quickly to reply, "No, not me! I'm no loser!" But people are not running to agree with you in that statement, they are running away from the connotation "loser" has in our culture. ...In that contest, I am the loser; I am not "a" loser, with the connotation you casually employ.
I confer and profusely apologize.


Quote:
So, back to my question, do people really misunderstand?
If we are talking about the word "compete" compared to the word "sport", I think so. That was the point I was trying to make. Competition is a process we are doing together to lift each other up (look up the latin roots), not just something where one person is being rewarded over another. Competition is like playing jazz, where soloists are trying to play different pieces that encourage the entire band, but that only they can do. They do not play their parts at the expense of the rhythm or connection to the rest of the band members. It is essentially the freedom to do whatever you would like and test yourself or express yourself. Sport is only one little part of competition, but we always refer to it when discussing anything remotely physical.


Quote:
However, we are also aware that as soon as points are awarded, the focus shifts *onto* the competition. And in an activity such as tanto randori (the tomiki definition), that shift in focus, along with the points, turn it into sport rather than art... rather than budo.

But just so that we're all clear, I don't care if someone wishes to train that way, I just want them to be honest that what they are doing is sport.
I couldn't agree more. We don't use points in our randori, and I think anyone who does is participating in a sport. Why keep score?


Quote:
My questions don't come from a loathing of competition in aikido, but from a desire to learn what benefits people get from it that I don't get from my normal training. I'm looking for something that will make me want to include the tomiki style tanto randori (or other similar competition events) in my daily/monthly training.
I think this is why I used your previous post; I could sense this attitude of curiousity and intelligence. (I am not just blowing sunshine up your ass, I just believe in giving credit where it is due.) As far as adding a competitive aspect to your regular training, I would not unless it was under the direction of a skillful teacher who has experience teaching non-sport, competitive training. Having someone come after you full force does not competition make. I had a very intense, slow randori session with my teacher tonight. Boy was it fun and frustrating. (Thank you Sensei.) You should come and train with us sometime. If you want more info, just email me off the forum. Hope this clears any confusion and emotion.

Jim Vance
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Old 03-23-2001, 07:54 AM   #73
Magma
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 168
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Jim -
Very nice and well-appreciated post, I understand you better now.

<<tip of hat>>

If you're ever in the West Michigan area, let me know. I'd love to train with you.

Tim
It's a sad irony: In U's satori, he forgot every technique he ever knew; since then, generations of doka have spent their whole careers trying to remember.
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