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Old 07-06-2004, 02:53 PM   #1
aikidoc
Dojo: Aikido of Midland
Location: Midland Texas
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These styles

Has anyone heard of the following aikido styles and know who developed them?

Kuden Shugyo Ryu Aikido

Seishin Tanren Aikido

I ran across them recently and had never heard of either before.
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Old 07-06-2004, 03:08 PM   #2
Ron Tisdale
Dojo: Doshinkan dojo in Roxborough, Pa
Location: Phila. Pa
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Re: These styles

http://www.aikido3rdcoast.com/History.html
for the first and,

http://web.gosanangelo.com/archive/0...030706005.html

It may be this is the instructor of the person in question...

http://angeloaikido.itgo.com/sensei_allen.html

YMMV

Ron

Ron Tisdale
-----------------------
"The higher a monkey climbs, the more you see of his behind."
St. Bonaventure (ca. 1221-1274)
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Old 07-06-2004, 04:54 PM   #3
Greg Jennings
Dojo: S&G BJJ
Location: Springboro, OH
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Re: These styles

http://www.viewusedcars.com/smoka-usa/premru3.htm

Greg Jennings
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Old 07-07-2004, 02:47 AM   #4
Jorge Garcia
Dojo: Shudokan School of Aikido
Location: Houston
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Re: These styles

Ron and John,
As to http://www.aikido3rdcoast.com/History.html
When I started in Aikido in August of 1995, Dan Vela was a member of the Corpus Christ Aikikai. He wore a white belt and never tested in that dojo which means he didn't test as a part of USAF or MAF (legitimate organizations). Our dojo had two teachers and after a year, one of them left and started a dojo loosely affiliated with Steven Seagal. That's where I next saw Dan wearing a hakama and teaching weapons. The group left that location after a while and I didn't see Dan again until the seminar with Hiroshi Kato, 8th dan (Aikikai) which was held at Paul Bystead's martial arts plaza called San Bao in 1999. Dan watched that day but didn't participate and at lunch, a young man that talked to Dan and apparently was a prospective student said that Dan had prohibited his members from participating in Kato Sensei's seminar.
In his website, Dan loosely associates himself with Tohei Sensei by mentioning his name twice in one paragraph. At that time, I was under the impression that Dan didn't believe in testing. He was not tested by Tohei sensei so if he had a Nidan by 1996 (according to his website), when did he get the Shodan??? He had a white belt the year before and was unranked. His teacher, Larry Salazar couldn't have given him the Shodan because Larry is unranked in Aikido to this day and has never tested anywhere (to my knowledge). I can only guess that Glen Pemru possibly promoted him for time served??? Of course, Glen's own background is so convoluted, its hard to distinguish fact from fiction.
We all know that in this country, anyone can form a Corporation and hand out rankings and "promotions" and that may have been the case here. I'm not saying that Dan hasn't spent time on the mat or that his Aikido is no good. I am saying that I have been in Aikido continuously practicing for 9 years in legitimate organizations and I only made Nidan by the grace of God in that same time period. How Dan made it from a white belt in 1995 to Nidan in 1996 to Godan (and Shihan) in 2004 is beyond me. If you think about this, maybe a way to get Dan's dates straight is to ask him what the dates were for his Kyu exams because he apparently took five of them in one year or got one heck of a promotion!
For new practitioners reading this, it may do well to take the admonition of Yukiyoshi Takamura Sensei who said, "Anyone who refers to himself as a 'master', isn't."
Best wishes,

"It is the philosophy that gives meaning to the method of training."
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Old 07-07-2004, 05:57 AM   #5
aikidoc
Dojo: Aikido of Midland
Location: Midland Texas
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Re: These styles

Very interesting. From no rank to godan and master in 8 years is pretty impressive. Sounds like he set up his own organization with favorable by laws and got a soke organization that did the same thing to sanction him.

Your warning to new people is good. If the instructor's credentials look really impressive, check them out-they may have promoted themselves. Check here and check e-budo. Their behaviors may have shown up.

Unfortunately, with a popular art like aikido people have to make silly claims. Some don't want to do the work because they think they are just too good and under ranked. Others are just trying to con people. When you see them on the mat it generally shows with shoddy technique.
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Old 07-07-2004, 08:29 AM   #6
aikidoc
Dojo: Aikido of Midland
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Re: These styles

I find it interesting that someone with no apparent aikido credentials (Premru) is promoting someone to godan and shihan in aikido. There are more and more of these type of situations popping up and it confuses the public. They pop up in areas where people often do not have access or knowledge about how to verify legitimate credentials. The instructors frequently have lofty ranks and titles much higher than legitimate instructors which they use to market the unsuspecting public. Legends in their own minds I guess. As Jorge pointed out, Vela was a white belt in 1995, by 1996 he cites being a nidan (I tested my nidan in 1996)-and now he's a shihan. Either he's mighty impressive or I'm a real klutz. I'm not close to being a shihan. Let's see, to quote the church lady, could it be, could it be-grade inflation? The soke organizations out there promoting all these people to lofty ranks (10th degrees running around all over the place) should go away-I feel they are just money making with no scruples. The aikikai has only 3 10th dans-two of which were verbal. One recently died (Hikitsuchi sensei). Tohei has done his own thing and Abe sensei is the only one left in the Aikikai and from what I understand it was verbal. We also have very few 9th dans. The public is the one being duped here. Legitimate martial artists who have tested and earned their rank see through these fakes-unfortunately, the public does not always have the understanding to do so.

Last edited by aikidoc : 07-07-2004 at 08:37 AM.
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Old 07-07-2004, 08:29 AM   #7
George S. Ledyard
 
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Re: These styles

Run away...run away...

George S. Ledyard
Aikido Eastside
Bellevue, WA
Aikido Eastside
AikidoDvds.Com
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Old 07-07-2004, 08:38 AM   #8
Dyusan
Dojo: Shoshikan
Location: Tennessee
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Re: These styles

I am tired of running. BTW hello John. Tell Marty Hi also.

Gary Chase
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Old 07-07-2004, 08:45 AM   #9
aikidoc
Dojo: Aikido of Midland
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Re: These styles

Hi Gary. Me too they just put a burr in my butt when I seen them. What's wrong with earning things? We had our own experience with one of those didn't we? Fortunately, he went away. Marty says hi back. John C. will be coming to your seminar to test for his shodan in September. Check the pics sections-the pic (white background) with the derren title is me throwing one of my 5th kyus in his first shihonage high fall.
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Old 07-07-2004, 09:05 AM   #10
aikidoc
Dojo: Aikido of Midland
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Re: These styles

P.S. Gary the close up - koshi 3 (Lan Powers) is my student Lan (3rd kyu) throwing Mike Cervantes (nidan) in ryotetori koshinage. Sorry for the diversion guys-Gary and I have been buds for almost 10 years .
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Old 07-07-2004, 10:38 AM   #11
MikeE
 
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Re: These styles

Might want to move this over to the Baffling Budo section on e-budo.com

Mike Ellefson
Midwest Center
For Movement &
Aikido Bukou
Dojos
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Old 07-07-2004, 11:19 AM   #12
aikidoc
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Re: These styles

I agree Mike but some people don't go over there very often. Perhaps we should have a baffling section of our own.
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Old 07-07-2004, 11:52 AM   #13
kironin
 
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Re: These styles

Quote:
John Riggs wrote:
Hi Gary. Me too they just put a burr in my butt when I seen them. What's wrong with earning things?

Me too. I think we need to go down there and break the rice bowl -
Texas style.



Craig
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Old 07-07-2004, 11:59 AM   #14
Chuck Clark
 
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Re: These styles

Looks to me as though Glenn Premru has been taking lessons from (OSensei) Phil Porter.

When Premru first came into the Phoenix area he was selling his wares through mailings, etc. very aggressively. Obvious to me he was selling stuff I didn't need or want. There are loads of these kinds of "opportunities" to hook up with organizations such as this. Caveat Emptor!

Chuck Clark
Jiyushinkai Aikibudo
www.jiyushinkai.org
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Old 07-07-2004, 12:15 PM   #15
BC
Location: Chicago, IL
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Re: These styles

There are some people who may take issue with Mr. Vella's statement that he was promoted shortly after the passing of Akira Tohei Sensei. The way he states it, he implies that he was promoted within Tohei Sensei's orgainization. I will state as a fact that no promotions were awarded within Tohei Sensei's organization until more than a year after his passing.

Robert Cronin
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Old 07-07-2004, 01:15 PM   #16
aikidoc
Dojo: Aikido of Midland
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Re: These styles

Robert-his statements were very misleading in they made it appear his rank was all issued from Tohei's organization. I suspect it was most likely from Premru.

Now now Craig, that's bad Ki. Plus you are assuming they know what a rice bowl is.
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Old 07-07-2004, 03:16 PM   #17
Jorge Garcia
Dojo: Shudokan School of Aikido
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Re: These styles

Back in those days in Corpus Christi, there was a large group of guys, fascinated with martial arts, that loved to dabble in many arts and claimed not to believe in testing. The Corpus dojo had two teachers-cousins that were divided. One was under Midwest federation and he had half the school with him. The other was an admirer of Steven Seagal and he didn't care for the USAF or Tohei sensei and he had the other half of the school. They coexisted for a while until the split occurred. Dan was in the group that didn't care for testing but he may have practiced with both teachers. The Seagal guy, Larry, was typical of the kind of people in that dojo. Larry was and is a very nice man but when I joined aikido, I asked him if he was a black belt. He said "yes". I didn't think to ask him if the black belt was in aikido. I later found out that he claimed a Nidan in Mu do kwan Karate. Even that though could not be accepted at face value because recently, his cousin told me that he and Larry studied Mudokwan karate in his garage with a book. Eddie (Larry's cousin) told me that he entered Larry in several tournaments against Mudokwan guys and after he beat a shodan in Mudokwan, Eddie bought him a black belt and unofficially ranked Larry a Nidan. There was a whole culture of guys including friends of theirs that started karate dojos and kendo schools and then they would run from place to place practicing for free (if possible). I say that because one day, I passed by my dojo and there were 20 guys in there practicing kendo at 10 pm at night. I didn't know a single one of them. When I asked who they were, I found out they were former students of the Corpus Aikikai and that many of them had keys and they had been coming in after we closed for years and were using the dojo! I reported it to my sensei and we changed the locks and would you believe it, they got mad at us! These guys networked with each other all over the place and knew each other and somewhere in that process, they gave each other some of the ideas they are using today.

"It is the philosophy that gives meaning to the method of training."
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