Welcome to AikiWeb Aikido Information
AikiWeb: The Source for Aikido Information
AikiWeb's principal purpose is to serve the Internet community as a repository and dissemination point for aikido information.

Sections
home
aikido articles
columns

Discussions
forums
aikiblogs

Databases
dojo search
seminars
image gallery
supplies
links directory

Reviews
book reviews
video reviews
dvd reviews
equip. reviews

News
submit
archive

Miscellaneous
newsletter
rss feeds
polls
about

Follow us on



Home > AikiWeb Aikido Forums
Go Back   AikiWeb Aikido Forums > Weapons

Hello and thank you for visiting AikiWeb, the world's most active online Aikido community! This site is home to over 22,000 aikido practitioners from around the world and covers a wide range of aikido topics including techniques, philosophy, history, humor, beginner issues, the marketplace, and more.

If you wish to join in the discussions or use the other advanced features available, you will need to register first. Registration is absolutely free and takes only a few minutes to complete so sign up today!

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 11-08-2003, 02:04 AM   #1
barnibis
 
barnibis's Avatar
Dojo: Toronto Aikikai
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 26
Offline
Types of Jo

Say!
Does anyone know what the best type of wood for Jo is?
Or which would be the heaviest?

b..
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-08-2003, 06:31 AM   #2
Nick Simpson
Dojo: White Rose Aikido - Durham University
Location: Gateshead
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 916
United Kingdom
Offline
I imagine Lignavitee (spelling?) would be the heaviest, but try getting hold of that for cheap. Its so dense they used to make ships propellors out of it 50 years ago, dunno about now.

They're all screaming about the rock n roll, but I would say that it's getting old. - REFUSED.
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-08-2003, 07:48 AM   #3
ChristianBoddum
 
ChristianBoddum's Avatar
Dojo: Aarhus AiKiKai
Location: Aarhus,Denmark
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 263
Offline
Hi !

Pau ferro (iron wood) is probably the heaviest - doesn't float !!

Then you have Ebony,Bubinga.Wenge and others.

Mind you Wenge is opengrained (nasty splinters).

Why the heaviest,for personal practice ?

If it's your first jo, heavy is unsafe.

My jo is heavy and strong but I only take it to seminars,if I really hit someone with it -

they will go down !

Ash , white oak and Hickory are very good because of weight,flexibility,strength.

The white oak doesn't splinter ,only get dented which is ideal.

yours - Chr.B.
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-08-2003, 12:46 PM   #4
barnibis
 
barnibis's Avatar
Dojo: Toronto Aikikai
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 26
Offline
i was thinking of the heaviest, so i could build strength.

i realized only the other day, that my Jo is one of the heaviest if not the heaviest in my dojo.

When i train, i find that i have to use a lot of strength to produce that 'woosh' sound. But then one day i left my Jo elsewhere and had to use the Dojo's, i realized then that all the Jo were really light, and i was making that 'woosh' sound with ease.

i then made the decision to go for the heaviest.

My goal is to be the best stick slinger in my dojo. And i think im well on my way, i have been practicing consitently for 3 years. only missing Jo classes if i've been beaten uncounscious and cant make it to class.

b..
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-08-2003, 01:51 PM   #5
ChristianBoddum
 
ChristianBoddum's Avatar
Dojo: Aarhus AiKiKai
Location: Aarhus,Denmark
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 263
Offline
Hi !

I'm sorry ,I don't understand your perspective unless you want to beat up trees !

There is a bokken type that has an oversize

"blade" that builds strength,I think it is mostly associated with Iwama-style practice

but I do not know its name.

Strength will go away,but timing and control

wil keep getting better.

Just the other day practicing ken-tai-jo

I swung my jo yokomen against uke,as I made contact uke said it felt like a kiss nothing

more,though it was sent off with power.

This is what it is all about to me.

But ambition is OK with me.
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-08-2003, 03:27 PM   #6
Nick Simpson
Dojo: White Rose Aikido - Durham University
Location: Gateshead
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 916
United Kingdom
Offline
I think you mean a suburi bokken? Or thats what we call em at least, looks kind of like a boat oar/paddle.

They're all screaming about the rock n roll, but I would say that it's getting old. - REFUSED.
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-08-2003, 03:34 PM   #7
ChristianBoddum
 
ChristianBoddum's Avatar
Dojo: Aarhus AiKiKai
Location: Aarhus,Denmark
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 263
Offline
Yep !
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-08-2003, 03:40 PM   #8
Nick Simpson
Dojo: White Rose Aikido - Durham University
Location: Gateshead
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 916
United Kingdom
Offline
Those babies are awesome, great for weight training, but just try going back to a regular bokken after you've trained with a suburi for a while. As we say at my dojo " once you've had fat, you'll never go back! "

They're all screaming about the rock n roll, but I would say that it's getting old. - REFUSED.
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-09-2003, 06:54 AM   #9
Tim Griffiths
Dojo: Nes Ziona Aikikai
Location: Suzhou, China
Join Date: Aug 2001
Posts: 188
China
Offline
I used a heavier bokken until I had a comment from Nebi Vural sensei - "Ah, its easy with a heavy bokken, you don't need so much control". Now I swap - use the suburi bokken for suburi (duh), and for paired practice use the same as whatever my partner has (I'm a bit of a nut with 9 or 10 different bokkens, so I can choose).

I suggest trying to do the kata with a suburi bokken, a normal one and a katana - you should see pretty quickly which needs the most skill to control properly.

For heavy jo practice I have a 1" thick iron bar at home - I guess it weighs about 15kg. It forces you to be in the middle of the rotation. The downside is that it'll basically go through anything you hit it with, including your head... I don't use it in the dojo for safety reasons, and my wife doesn't let me use it in the house either.

For both jo and bokken, I think you can train with a heavier one for strength, but the main training should still be done with a lighter weapon, which needs more finesse. Bokkens are generally too heavy anyway, compared to a decent sword.

Tim

If one makes a distinction between the dojo and the battlefield, or being in your bedroom or in public, then when the time comes there will be no opportunity to make amends. (Hagakure)
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-10-2003, 06:59 AM   #10
ian
 
ian's Avatar
Dojo: University of Ulster, Coleriane
Location: Northern Ireland
Join Date: Oct 2000
Posts: 1,654
Offline
I'd agree with Tim - I went through a heavier weapon phase but found out it actually slowed my weapon work and sometimes gave me elbow strain (but I am quite little!). Train with heavy weapons for conditioning, but ensure you continue to train with something of normal weight which you can actually do kumijo with at a reasonable speed. Also, heavy weapons can actually impede the use of your centre because start to use your muscles in a less unified way. Instead, you could try cutting or striking HARDER with a lighter weapon (get some targets).

Ian

---understanding aikido is understanding the training method---
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-10-2003, 07:03 AM   #11
ian
 
ian's Avatar
Dojo: University of Ulster, Coleriane
Location: Northern Ireland
Join Date: Oct 2000
Posts: 1,654
Offline
P.S. as Christian said you can get suburi bokkens with an oversized blade (we call them 'oars') however I've found them to be a complete waste of time. The handles are often too thin to control the power of the cut and the weight distribution is very poor (tip heavy).

PPS I wouldn't like to do the 31 jo kata with a steel jo - I've hit myself on the head or ankle several times with a wooden jo and that hurts enough!

---understanding aikido is understanding the training method---
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-10-2003, 07:04 AM   #12
ian
 
ian's Avatar
Dojo: University of Ulster, Coleriane
Location: Northern Ireland
Join Date: Oct 2000
Posts: 1,654
Offline
PPPS - don't use very heavy weapons in partnered weapon practise - it becomes very costly for everone else!

---understanding aikido is understanding the training method---
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-10-2003, 08:14 AM   #13
Suru
Location: Miami, FL
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 453
United_States
Offline
One guy at my old dojo had a really heavy jo. It tore a chunk out of mine one day during training. That was annoying. Of course, I did make my jo out of a broomstick from Home Depot.

Recently, I purchased a hickory jo from Bu Jin. It is the perfect weight in my opinion.

Drew
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-10-2003, 09:37 AM   #14
ChristianBoddum
 
ChristianBoddum's Avatar
Dojo: Aarhus AiKiKai
Location: Aarhus,Denmark
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 263
Offline
Hi !

A word of caution -

Broomsticks are usually of a wood called Ramin (maybe it has other names),at first glance it seems appropriate for making fighting sticks - not so !!

It is kind of hard but it will not only splinter easily,if hit hard it will break

right over !

As I metioned earlier,Hickory,White oak and Ash are the better choices ( I would also second Ash because of open grain,maybe swamp Ash would work).

Off to Keiko -
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-14-2003, 08:54 PM   #15
barnibis
 
barnibis's Avatar
Dojo: Toronto Aikikai
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 26
Offline
Wow!

i dont know why im surprised to hear this, i guess i really shouldn't be.

But what im hearing is that heavy Jo might actually not be a good thing?



i was always thinking of making my muscles stronger and therefore, have more control.

About centering, you're all sayin that a heavier Jo could mess with my centre?

i really thought that conditioning myself with a heavy weapon, will ensure control using a lighter weapon. Tim mention's that he heard a sensei say that heavier Jo are easier to control? am i gettin this right?

Tim said >I had a comment from Nebi

>Vural sensei - "Ah, its easy with

>a heavy bokken, you don't need

>so much control"

Wouldn't you need more control with a heavier weapon?

o..
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-15-2003, 07:49 AM   #16
ChristianBoddum
 
ChristianBoddum's Avatar
Dojo: Aarhus AiKiKai
Location: Aarhus,Denmark
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 263
Offline
Hi again !

There are no shortcuts to the real thing,

period.

This I've learned not just in Aikido but in other walks of life.

No exercises make me play better guitar,only

practicing focused and developing that way.

You must remember that a jo technically is a spear not a hammer,much in the same way a

bokken is a sword.

The attitude that a bokken gives the body

is different than the attitude a sword gives.

It's like an awakening,a real live blade is

the true awakening,when you find out how sharp a live blade is and the balance of the thing,you much more clearly understand the economy of motion that is at the heart of Aikido.

yours - Chr.B.
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-09-2004, 10:53 PM   #17
jasmine_sun
Dojo: Aikido Shinjukai
Location: Singapore
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 2
Offline
Re: Types of Jo

Hi all,

Actually instead of looking for a heavy jo, I'm trying to look for a lighter jo as mine is really too haevy for me. It is very tiring practicing the 31 kata with a heavy jo, and I'm more into getting my handwork and footwork right than building up strength. I've been looking around for a good, light jo recently, but there are only 2 martial arts supplies store in Singapore, and the jos they have there are not up to standard really.

Are there any online shops selling light jos? I've looked at bokkenshop.com and they do have attractive jos there, anyidea how heavy is that?

Jasmine
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-10-2004, 01:07 AM   #18
Brad Darr
Dojo: Aikido of Flagstaff/Seibukan Aikido Kobe
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 49
United_States
Offline
Re: Types of Jo

I love working with the jo and do it pretty much everytime I go to the dojo. Anyway for me the best to do paired practice with is japanese white oak from Kiyota Company. They sell excellent, decent priced weapons and I have never had a problem with breaking. They aren't on the web but I think Jun has the address on this sight under the suppliers icon or something. I agree with what others have said about a heavier jo being hard on the joints, i.e. metal bar will make you strong but spnning it can be costly in bruises or damaged tendons. I personally have an ebony jo from Bujindesign.com that I have had for a few years and it is heavier than oak but not too heavy, it has a nice balance to it that makes it great for personal practice and I use it at seminars because when you pull that shiny black stick out it draws stares. I'm sure that there are several other types of woods that have a medium weight. A friend bought a lingum vitae jo from Bearwoodworks online and it is beautiful, I think they also offer purpleheart wood. One thing though ebony and lingum vitae are so hard that they get brittle over time. The same friend bought a lingum vitae bokken and it broke.

the edges of the sword are life and death
no one knows which is which
-Ikkyu Sojun
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-10-2004, 06:10 AM   #19
ChristianBoddum
 
ChristianBoddum's Avatar
Dojo: Aarhus AiKiKai
Location: Aarhus,Denmark
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 263
Offline
Re: Types of Jo

Hi !
I'd like to share my most recent experience with the jo.
At the Copenhagen easter camp I had a chance to really work my new 24mm white oak jo (Tozando) ,
it was acquired after comparing the different jos in our dojo.
It seemed that the 24mm jos felt the best - though light.
At the camp I and others discovered that it really had some "action" , for personal training I am considering a 27mm jo as well , but I believe I had one of the best jos on the camp .
The camp was 6 full days and it was a pleasure having such a great jo for all the ken-tai-jo we did.

yours - Chr.Boddum
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-10-2004, 06:14 PM   #20
George S. Ledyard
 
George S. Ledyard's Avatar
Dojo: Aikido Eastside
Location: Bellevue, WA
Join Date: Jun 2000
Posts: 2,639
Offline
Re: Types of Jo

Quote:
otto lam wrote:
>Vural sensei - "Ah, its easy with

>a heavy bokken, you don't need

>so much control"

Wouldn't you need more control with a heavier weapon?

o..
Well, your partner would sure as hell appreciate it!!!

George S. Ledyard
Aikido Eastside
Bellevue, WA
Aikido Eastside
AikidoDvds.Com
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-15-2004, 08:03 AM   #21
arderljohn
Dojo: Manila Aikido Club
Location: manila
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 34
Philippines
Offline
Re: Types of Jo

[quote=otto lam]Say!
Does anyone know what the best type of wood for Jo is?
Or which would be the heaviest.

I don't know if you familair of "Kamagong" but here in our country we generally used that kind of wood. it's a hard one and tough one. we used that in arnis(stick fighting) as well in jo and bokken. ask some filipino friend in ur country
I dont think but I hope theres a Kamagong in ur land
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-15-2004, 08:53 AM   #22
dan guthrie
Dojo: Aikido of SLO
Location: Morro Bay
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 139
United_States
Offline
Re: Types of Jo

I bought a Diamond wood staff a few years ago from Museum Replicas. It's a great walking stick, the weight is better for upper-body exercise and it looks less dorky than heavy hands or free weights. It can also double as a jo in an emergency - feral dogs or even swans - but it would just tear up my back to do kata with it.
You might do serious damage to your lower back and not get any real benefit.
Would you pick up the heaviest weight in a gym your first day?
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-15-2004, 09:38 AM   #23
markwalsh
Dojo: Airenjuku Brighton
Location: On the road - UK
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 515
United Nations
Offline
Re: Types of Jo

There are those that use a heavier jo to LOSE strengh; or more accurately; lose the use of strengh during jo work. "Anti weight training" if you will. If anyone from Komyokan is logged on then please comment as I don't know a whole lot about it.

Mark
x
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-03-2004, 06:09 PM   #24
Jonathan Cole
 
Jonathan Cole's Avatar
Dojo: Salem Budokai
Location: Salem, Oregon
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 15
United_States
Offline
Re: Types of Jo

As to types of wood and their applicability to weapons use, James Goedkoop of Kingfisher Woodworks (http://www.kingfisherwoodworks.com/) wrote an excellent article about the relative strengths and densities of most hardwoods available in North America. Here's the link from our very own AikiWeb site:
http://aikiweb.com/weapons/goedkoop1.html
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-03-2004, 09:06 PM   #25
miratim
Dojo: Albuquerque Aikido Kokikai
Location: Albuquerque, NM
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 39
United_States
Offline
Re: Types of Jo

Kiyota company:

http://www.kiyotabudo.com/
  Reply With Quote

Please visit our sponsor:

Budo Bear Patterns - Sewing pattern for Women's (and Men's) dogi.



Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Bokken and Jo questions seank Weapons 19 01-13-2010 10:06 AM
Bokken and jo set from Aikiwood Jennifer Yabut Weapons 13 11-07-2009 01:46 PM
Bokken & Jo Kata Videos jpjaqua Weapons 4 01-15-2005 06:43 PM
Systema Seminar with Vladimir Vasiliev, Part 1 aikibaka131 Seminars 2 07-22-2003 01:45 PM
Jo was originally a spear or not? Silvio Weapons 24 03-17-2002 07:22 PM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 09:41 AM.



vBulletin Copyright © 2000-2014 Jelsoft Enterprises Limited
----------
Copyright 1997-2014 AikiWeb and its Authors, All Rights Reserved.
----------
For questions and comments about this website:
Send E-mail
plainlaid-picaresque outchasing-protistan explicantia-altarage seaford-stellionate