Welcome to AikiWeb Aikido Information
AikiWeb: The Source for Aikido Information
AikiWeb's principal purpose is to serve the Internet community as a repository and dissemination point for aikido information.

Sections
home
aikido articles
columns

Discussions
forums
aikiblogs

Databases
dojo search
seminars
image gallery
supplies
links directory

Reviews
book reviews
video reviews
dvd reviews
equip. reviews

News
submit
archive

Miscellaneous
newsletter
rss feeds
polls
about

Follow us on



Home > AikiWeb Aikido Forums
Go Back   AikiWeb Aikido Forums > Training

Hello and thank you for visiting AikiWeb, the world's most active online Aikido community! This site is home to over 22,000 aikido practitioners from around the world and covers a wide range of aikido topics including techniques, philosophy, history, humor, beginner issues, the marketplace, and more.

If you wish to join in the discussions or use the other advanced features available, you will need to register first. Registration is absolutely free and takes only a few minutes to complete so sign up today!

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 02-20-2001, 06:17 AM   #26
ian
 
ian's Avatar
Dojo: University of Ulster, Coleriane
Location: Northern Ireland
Join Date: Oct 2000
Posts: 1,654
Offline
P.S.

I also think we are defending against the attack as a whole, rather than just the physical attack, so pre-empting an attack is justifiable and indeed desirable. Ueshiba was known to have done this on many occasions.

Ian
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-03-2004, 06:48 AM   #27
Nick Simpson
Dojo: White Rose Aikido - Durham University
Location: Gateshead
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 916
United Kingdom
Offline
Re: "Street Aikido"

Aikido for self defense the way I would apply it is basically how to move and how to strike, forget throws and pins, evasion and very brutal atemi are my prefered choice in a life threateniing situation. If it was a friend or someone not intent on killing me then I would perhaps try a lock like sankyo or something to hold them down.
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-03-2004, 12:42 PM   #28
Bronson
 
Bronson's Avatar
Dojo: Seiwa Dojo and Southside Dojo
Location: Battle Creek & Kalamazoo, MI
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 1,677
Offline
Re: "Street Aikido"

Quote:
Paul wrote:
We never hear of iaido-ka or kendo-ka modifying their technoques or attacks so that they might be akin to a baseball bat or something of that nature.
Never say never.

Street Kendo

Second video down.

I've watched it and it's terrible.

Bronson

"A pacifist is not really a pacifist if he is unable to make a choice between violence and non-violence. A true pacifist is able to kill or maim in the blink of an eye, but at the moment of impending destruction of the enemy he chooses non-violence."
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-09-2004, 05:48 AM   #29
Keith Morgan
Dojo: United Kingdom Shin Gi Tai Aiki Ju Jutsu Schools
Location: England
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 5
Offline
Re: "Street Aikido"

Just out of interest,whose "streets" are we talking about,streets in Singapore,New York in the Bronx,a sleepy village in England,or a backstreet in Bangkok? Get the point anybody?
The concept of self-defence is a western one,not even considered in Japanese Arts.You have offence and counter-offence.You may do better to study the concepts of Sen and Heiho,instead of babbling on about "street" effectiveness.
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-13-2004, 10:31 AM   #30
ajbarron
Dojo: Calgary Aikikai
Location: Calgary, Alberta Canada
Join Date: Sep 2002
Posts: 76
Offline
Re: "Street Aikido"

My First Time !!!

This is a copy of an incident report I had to submit yesterday at my school. It was the first time I have ever had to use Aikido outside of the dojo, or even the first time I have had to deal with a physical threat. I did not use Japanese terminology for the report since it would have clouded the issue.

Basically I did a quick irimi as he started to punch, controlled his punching arm, a quick arm pin followed by a nikkio to control him as we marched the student into the school.

It wasn't dojo smooth, but I didn't get hurt ,and neither did the student.

What was funny was the other teacher who marched the student into the office with me couldn't understand why the student wasn't fighting on the way into the school until I demonstated the hold on him.

What shocked me was when I was asked by both students and other teachers why didn't I punch the student. My reply was, that punching was not acceptable behavior. (I did this rather that get into a philosophical discussion on the principles of Aikido.)

It did illustrate to me that "on the street" you just go with what works. What surprised me was that I was thinking all the time about what could I do not to hurt the student; and we both came out unscathed.

Please note we have a very strict policy on snowballs due to problems experienced in the neighborhood, and our school system. In this incident the other six students, when approached by me, simply marched down to our time out room and wrote up their behavior reports.


May, 12, 2004

Noon-time Incident Report

Time : Approximately 12:30 PM

By: Andrew Barron, Teacher

***** ****** was observed throwing snowballs outside the school so I approached him and asked him to head inside. He refused, so I told him he had a couple of minutes to make a good decision , (i.e. do as I requested). I then went inside to deal with other students who had been throwing snowballs .

I then went outside the school entrance and saw that ***** was still not in the school.
***** was asked by another teacher ( ******) to go into the school due to this disciplinary incident. He refused and started to walk away. I intercepted him and asked him to return to the school was told by the student to "Back off B***h". At that point I grabbed his arm as he pushed past me and made motions to punch me , as well as threatening to beat me up. He then started to swing at me with his fists while making more threatening statements as to the effect that I'd better leave him alone or he would do physical violence to me. At this point I had to control him as he swore, kicked and threatened me. By this time his anger seemed to have been already in complete control of his actions, and statements, and he could not stop.

Holding him in a position that he could not hurt himself or myself, Mr. ****** and I escorted him into the office of the Assistant Principal. We asked him to sit down at which time he started taking things off the selves and throwing them about the office. I was forced to regain control of him once more. During this time he continued to make threats about physically attacking me. I asked him at least twice that if I let go that he would calm down at sit down. He refused and continued to cause a commotion in the room (kicked over a stool and other things).

Another teacher (Ms. ******* ) who the student had a good rapport with attempted, to get him to calm down by telling him that I would let go if he would comply. ****** continued to make threatening statements and attempting to kick things about, so there was no option other than to hold him to prevent any further property damage.

Mr. ********, Assistant Principal, then entered the office, assessed the situation and decided that the best option was to escort the student to the front doors and tell him to go home. As he left his last statement was to the effect "Watch your back you f*****g b***h".

Following this I was asked to write up an incident report, which I did independently of the others involved in the incident.

Submitted by Andrew Barron

May 12, 2004
1:20 PM


PS Yes, for all you southerners it does snow in May in Canada!!!!!!!! As a matter of fact it snows whenever it feels like it no matter what time of the year.
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-17-2004, 05:14 PM   #31
Lyle Laizure
 
Lyle Laizure's Avatar
Dojo: Hinode Dojo LLC
Location: Omaha, Nebraska
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 563
United_States
Offline
Re: "Street Aikido"

What makes Aikido, Aikido is its philosophy. So whether you are on the street or in the dojo it is the practitioners intent that makes the art Aikido. If your intent is to hurt beyond what is reasonable for the given situation then you are not practicing Aikido. This is a grey area for each individual discern for themself.

Lyle Laizure
www.hinodedojo.com
Deru kugi wa uta reru
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-20-2004, 03:43 PM   #32
Forrest Williams
Dojo: Northern Lights Aikido
Location: Duluth, MN
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 2
Offline
Re: "Street Aikido"

Aikido is a life-long progression toward aiki, however one does not have to practice aikido to become aiki. Many chose other paths such as dance, art, or business, which can all lead down the path of aiki if the principles are applied.

The Japanese Tea Ceremony can be a path to aiki, however if at the end of the process there is no tea in my cup, then it wouldn't be the same.

Effective self-defence is the tea. It is inseparable from aikido.
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-21-2004, 01:05 AM   #33
Bronson
 
Bronson's Avatar
Dojo: Seiwa Dojo and Southside Dojo
Location: Battle Creek & Kalamazoo, MI
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 1,677
Offline
Re: "Street Aikido"

I knew I smelled another Seidokanian here somewhere

Hey Forrest glad to have another one of "us" on the forums.

Feel free to PM me if you're ever gonna be in the SW Michigan area.

Bronson

"A pacifist is not really a pacifist if he is unable to make a choice between violence and non-violence. A true pacifist is able to kill or maim in the blink of an eye, but at the moment of impending destruction of the enemy he chooses non-violence."
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-21-2004, 01:07 PM   #34
Forrest Williams
Dojo: Northern Lights Aikido
Location: Duluth, MN
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 2
Offline
Re: "Street Aikido"

Hi Bronson:

Thanks for the welcome. I will let you know when I'm in the area (I love training at other dojos). The same goes for you; please stop by anytime.

Are us Seidokan a minority around here?

I'll be attending the Seidokan summer camp in Austin, TX next month. Maybe I'll see you there...
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-21-2004, 07:29 PM   #35
John Matsushima
 
John Matsushima's Avatar
Location: Miura, Japan
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 226
United_States
Offline
Quote:
Nick Pittson wrote:
If there is no target, how can there be any fight?
People often try to seperate the philisophical side of Aikido from the physical side, but they are a part of each other. Once a person starts to think in terms of self defense, then everything changes, and the techniques will reflect the mindset of the individual. It is akin to having a discussion with someone and becoming defensive with your words, it then becomes an argument.

I don't believe there is any true form of self-defense. If someone puts it in their mind to due you harm, you cannot stop them with any form of reality training or street defense tactics. There is no defense against someone armed with a will of violence. You have to sleep sometime. The demon of violence has so many techniques and weapons that it is impossible to prepare for all of them, be it an airplane that crashes into a building, a man full of hate with a bomb strapped to his belly, or just a thug waiting to stab you in the back and take your wallet.

So, in that case we say that we shall take pre-emptive strikes, take the offensive, strike first, strike fast, strike hard. If you kill the uke, the demon of hate will win in the end with the vengence of his friends and loved ones delivering the wrath of violence upon you no matter what it takes. If you only injure the uke, then it will be he who sees to your demise...eventually.

If you don't believe or agree with what I say, then take a look at the world around you. It isn't a safer or better place because of self defense. The Israelis and Palestinians are both "defending themselves" and killing and dying everyday. Our American troops with the greatest technology and self-defense aids and tactics are dying everyday in Iraq. For thousands and thousands of years, the human race has studied and perfected hand-hand combat, and created massive and incredibly dangerous weoponry all in the name of "self-defense". Our police, and our military work 24 hours a day to protect us, yet we still die, and we still kill.
I for one, am sick of violence. I am sickened at how we fight to save ourselves by killing our enemy, for whatever reason.

Aikido is indeed a great gift for the human race. It is the answer to this demon of violence. Violence can never be defeated, but only replaced by love.

Therefore, it is imparitive that this is our focus as we train, so that when we stop defending ourselves (take away the target) and start loving, then there is no fight.


Sincerely,

John Matsushima

Last edited by John Matsushima : 05-21-2004 at 07:40 PM.
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-21-2004, 11:18 PM   #36
Bronson
 
Bronson's Avatar
Dojo: Seiwa Dojo and Southside Dojo
Location: Battle Creek & Kalamazoo, MI
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 1,677
Offline
Re: "Street Aikido"

Quote:
Forrest Williams wrote:
The same goes for you; please stop by anytime.
I'm not a big traveler but I'll keep it in mind...thanks

Quote:
Forrest Williams wrote:
Are us Seidokan a minority around here?
I have no idea how many are lurking out there but there are only a couple that I know of who post regularly.

Quote:
Forrest Williams wrote:
I'll be attending the Seidokan summer camp in Austin, TX next month. Maybe I'll see you there...
Unfortunately I can't attend. Returning to school has forced me into frugal mode to pay for it. Tell Ross Robertson Sensei and Katie I said hi

Okay, sorry about the thread hijack...

Bronson

"A pacifist is not really a pacifist if he is unable to make a choice between violence and non-violence. A true pacifist is able to kill or maim in the blink of an eye, but at the moment of impending destruction of the enemy he chooses non-violence."
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-26-2004, 08:20 PM   #37
Landon Miller
Location: Oklahoma
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 2
United_States
Offline
Re: "Street Aikido"

While not a student of Aikido. This is the question I would like to give in the form of a answer.

Wouldn't the Style of Aikido Apply to any given situation where it is needed? From a bat to a knife, to a gun? Aren't the same kind of muscles used? The same motion used? If perhaps getting in range the needed attack is need, couldn't you play possum? I dint know but from the little experience I have with this subject I would assume so. But maybe the Ones with the knowledge could answer this better than I.
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-26-2004, 11:18 PM   #38
Tharis
Dojo: Chicago Aikikai
Location: Chicago, IL
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 78
United_States
Offline
Re: "Street Aikido"

Quote:
Landon Miller wrote:
While not a student of Aikido. This is the question I would like to give in the form of a answer.

Wouldn't the Style of Aikido Apply to any given situation where it is needed? From a bat to a knife, to a gun? Aren't the same kind of muscles used? The same motion used? If perhaps getting in range the needed attack is need, couldn't you play possum? I dint know but from the little experience I have with this subject I would assume so. But maybe the Ones with the knowledge could answer this better than I.
Any given situation? That's quite a broad question. Referring to specific weapons, we practice tanto dori , which basically means knife taking, and a baseball bat in some senses isn't terribly different from a bokken (practice sword we use in practice. As for a gun, the person would have to be within grabbing range (meaning the person must not be terribly bright). Whether martial aikido would be effective, or how it could be effective, varies a lot situation by situation.

Ideally, Aikido is effective in any situation, even if it just involves talking the person out of whatever action they were intending to take. Not all Aikido is martial arts as we usually think of them.

That said, getting to that level would take a lot of practice.

All in all, I think the whole "my martial art is the ultimate street defense (tm)" vs. "your martial art is useless in real fighting (tm)" debate is pretty lame, and here's a website that basically makes the case for me:
http://www.nononsenseselfdefense.com/martialarts.html

Hope this helps.

Thomas

Last edited by Tharis : 05-26-2004 at 11:21 PM.
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-27-2004, 09:04 AM   #39
SeiserL
 
SeiserL's Avatar
Location: Florida Gulf coast
Join Date: Jun 2000
Posts: 3,888
United_States
Offline
Re: "Street Aikido"

IMHO, effectiveness in the streets is a matter of intensity and intent. We fight how we train. Many people do not train with the intensity and intent to actually fight. This has to do with mental discipline and training as well as the physical. Effectiveness is about the person, not the style.

Lynn Seiser PhD
Yondan Aikido & FMA/JKD
We do not rise to the level of our expectations, but fall to the level of our training. Train well. KWATZ!
  Reply With Quote

Please visit our sponsor:

AikiWeb Sponsored Links - Place your Aikido link here for only $10!



Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
What exactly is an independent dojo? David Yap General 64 11-14-2011 02:05 PM
I Need Aikido ?'s Answered PLEASE! Arthur Capone Introductions 34 08-20-2008 10:03 AM
Article: Aikido Now in Brunei AikiWeb System AikiWeb System 3 09-20-2005 06:22 PM
Propostarganização do Aikido em Portugal kimusubi0 French 0 05-01-2004 02:30 AM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 08:37 AM.



vBulletin Copyright © 2000-2018 Jelsoft Enterprises Limited
----------
Copyright 1997-2018 AikiWeb and its Authors, All Rights Reserved.
----------
For questions and comments about this website:
Send E-mail
plainlaid-picaresque outchasing-protistan explicantia-altarage seaford-stellionate