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Old 04-13-2004, 06:04 PM   #1
arif
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how practicable is it in the streets?

I am one of those who think that aikido is to be done for the sake of art and its rationale ( for me " respect others"). hence I do not put it in the same place with karate, kung fu etc., which may work on the streets other than on the mat. An aikidoist can only fight!!! with another aikidoist, not with somebody who does not know it. in other words it is impracticable in the streets. what do you think of this matter, have you ever been in a situation that you have to use aikido?
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Old 04-13-2004, 10:16 PM   #2
p00kiethebear
 
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After only two months aikido...

There were these 20 guys who all had really big swords. They surrounded me one night while i was walking back to my car. They told me to give up my wallet or die. I didn't move. So they attacked me. But using my skills i had acquired i managed to disarm them all and bend their swords into a very pretty piece of modern art and then walk away laughing as they all bowed to me saying " Oh my gosh! We are fools! will you please train us?!?!!11!11oneoneone"

so aikido works in the streets if you kick as much ass as me.

I think we've had this topic come up enough (almost bi weekly it seems) that another thread isn't worth the time. I did have fun writing that story though. I think it would make a good movie.

Oh anyway, back to the question. Lesse. Do a search for old threads, you'll probably find at least 10 threads about this.

"Fighting for peace is like screwing for virginity"
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Old 04-13-2004, 10:36 PM   #3
aikiSteve
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Quote:
Nathan Gidney (p00kiethebear) wrote:
There were these 20 guys who all had really big swords. They surrounded me one night while i was walking back to my car.
You too? What a small world. This happens to me all the time.

Steve
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Old 04-13-2004, 10:40 PM   #4
Nafis Zahir
 
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First of all, aikidoist do not fight! Secondly, I have used aikido techniques against those who practice karate. If it were not for the fact that they were just testing me, they would have really gotten injured. Don't kid yourself, aikido techniques will devestate someone on the street. I use to study kung fu and karate, and I can tell you for sure, that aikido is more practical for the streets. This is not to deny the effectiveness of the other arts, but faced with a threatening situation, Aikido is all I need.

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Old 04-16-2004, 12:31 AM   #5
Largo
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aikido has worked just fine for me (the one time I ever used it).

It was new year's eve, around 2 am in Roppongi. I was waiting for a train at the platform. Anyways, some nut started screaming and took a giant john-wayne hee-haw punch at me. Somehow, (I was kinda drunk..so I don't know quite how I managed it) I pulled off a variation of a yokomen-uchi shihonage. The guy went down and I hopped on the train.
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Old 04-16-2004, 12:42 AM   #6
thatoldfool
 
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Yokomenuchi Shihonage is great - it's one of those few moves, in my opinion, that kind of "just happen," and it in particular works very well against those "rounded" "sucker" punches most people throw these days

"Best to be like water,
Which benefits the ten thousand things
And does not contend."
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Old 04-16-2004, 12:42 AM   #7
ryujin
 
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Most nights when I was working as a bouncer I used what I learned in aikido.

Especially the night I had 20 people attack me using macarana-ryu. It was like some kind of line attack. Anyway, a yonkyo here and a sankyo there and before I knew it they were all groaning in pain and lying on the floor and I was unscathed.

Go figure.


Carl Bilodeau
Jiyūshin-ryū AikiBudō
Renshinkan

"Yield to temptation — it may not pass your way again." - Robert Heinlein
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Old 04-16-2004, 07:08 AM   #8
DaveO
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Smartass comments aside; there is a great deal of info on aikiweb on this subject.

However; if you're like me finding it can be a pain in the arse; so here's my answer.

We have to define the difference between self-defence and fighting. Aikido is not very good for fighting; it has no mechanism for attack. It is however superb for defence IF you train with real-world self defence in mind.

There's a lot more to that than just practicing techniques. In fact; the techniques are the least uselful part of aikido in a real world situation. It's exactly the things people don't expect - the so-called 'spiritual' side - that give you the best advantage. The ability to remain (relatively) calm under stress, for instance. The ability to remain centered and thus stable. the ability to move offline fast; and reposition. These; combined with a trained level of awareness and an understanding of how real world encounters develop will help far more than a really great shihonage. I'm not belittling the techniques; not at all; but as effective as they are; the lessons they teach are much more important.

Next: Of all the martial arts; aikido is one of the best for defence becaue it is entirely defensive in nature. It is entirely possible - and happens all the time - to win the fight and lose the battle in court; IOW wind up going to jail. Your innocence in the matter may be perfectly clear to you; but not to the cops or the judge - they'll naturally assume that both parties are equally culpable. If you can demonstrate you used minimum reasonable force; you stand a better chance of being found not guilty. That's hard if you broke the guy's arm; punched his lights out or karate-chopped his head off.

BUT - all that being said; aikido is effective for defence only if the user is effective at defence. Practicing the techniques is not enough; you must learn to defend yourself in a real-world environment; and that's a completely separate subject from MA.

Hope this helps you; Aydyn.

P.S. - yes; I've used it in real life, by the way.

Answers are only easy when they're incomplete.
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Old 04-16-2004, 10:24 AM   #9
John Boswell
 
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Aikido is more than just fighting... a LOT more. Aikido means "way of harmony", right? Ya gotta blend and use your opponents energy against them, right? Here's MY latest aikido story.

I know an alcoholic who just got out of treatment one week ago. The day he got out, he got drunk and hasn't eaten since. Just been drinking. Tuesday night, he calls me up and tells me what a worthless s.o.b. I am and that I need to come see him so he can blow my head off and kick my butt, etc.

Of course, I didn't beleieve him, but I've known a few drunks in my time and I leave nothing to chance. I finally got over there to the guys house, only to find that his buddy got there first and took the gun away... he really had one and really had it loaded. SO... I entered (irmi) the backyard and walked right up to him, shook the drunks hand and talked to him for about 5 minutes. Meanwhile, buddy was inside gathering up all the guns and ammo and loading them up in my car. I talked calmly with the drunk, acted a little bored, kept reminding him it was after midnight and how "tired" HE was... and eventually and believed me and decided he needed to go to bed. (that's the blending with energy part there)

After he crashed, I thanked the buddy, told him I was glad we survived this incident (domo arigato gozimasu) and took the guns home and put them away.

I entered in on the attack, blended and disarmed the attacker. Nobody died and harmony was restored... if only temporarily.

To me, this is one of MANY ways that aikido is truly practical and the philosopy is damn right sound. God help that drunk if he had to get physical, because their actions are eradic and I'd hate to have to put him down on a tile floor the hard way.

Peace.

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Old 04-16-2004, 10:53 AM   #10
Nick Simpson
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Aikidos only as good as the individual aikidoka. The simple stuff works best, I used Irimi on a much larger boxer who picked a fight with me and then managed to pin him on the ground and give him a good trouncing (he was big and angry, If I let him get up he woulda killed me ) I find the best technique in itself is sankyo (for me)as ive used it twice, once to pin someone on a pool table who was causing trouble in a bar and another time to throw a drunk into a refridgerator at a party. I was happy enough with those results.

They're all screaming about the rock n roll, but I would say that it's getting old. - REFUSED.
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Old 04-16-2004, 08:04 PM   #11
crand32100
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I love it every time this topic comes up. It's only been two weeks since the last one, I think. Anyway, my two cents is that I would rather not live in the particular psychosis that all the bad people out there are just going to take a swing at you and you've got to beat them up.

What about those that have guns and other tools to raise the stakes? Do you need to beat them up too? Leave the bad people alone! You don't know what people are carrying. If you find yourself in these kinds of street fighting situations often you should be thinking about how you put yourself there. I've never found myself in such a situation partially because I'm lucky, but also because I follow my instincts about people's body language. If you are so concerned with your personal safety in the street, buy a gun. Having said that, if I were causing trouble in the streets and there were people trying to stop me, the first person that I'd shoot would be the person brandishing a firearm, followed by anyone who thinks their martial arts skills are good in the streets.

Another scenario: Let's say I weigh 100lbs. The probability of my being able to strike someone who weighs 250 lbs and do any damage is pretty small. All that person would have to do is sit on me. There are always exceptions to the rule, but they are few and far between. In aikido, if you only just learn how to get your butt out of the way you should be happy.

There is no good answer to this question. That's my perspective from my small corner of the universe.

TC
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Old 04-19-2004, 08:27 PM   #12
gasman
 
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Re: how practicable is it in the streets?

Arif,

all the spokes of a wheel leads to the hub:

whereas studying the storm and and its damaging effects will quickly make you better at fighting, be aware that aikido is the eye of the storm. studying the eye is more difficult, but will reward you with better understanding of the why the storm is there in the first place, where it will move and how it will affect you.

i have avoided more fights than you've been in.

NEVER NEVER underestimate any style or any person.
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Old 04-20-2004, 02:37 AM   #13
bob_stra
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Re: how practicable is it in the streets?

Quote:
gasman wrote:
Arif,

all the spokes of a wheel leads to the hub:

whereas studying the storm and and its damaging effects will quickly make you better at fighting, be aware that aikido is the eye of the storm. studying the eye is more difficult, but will reward you with better understanding of the why the storm is there in the first place
That's a great way of putting it!

Good stuff - much obliged

Question - do you feel "studying the storm" would make studying the center easier or more difficult? And how about vice versa?

(your post kinda reminds of TCM 5 element theory. Or hell, even "paper-scissors-rock")
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Old 04-20-2004, 05:53 AM   #14
AriesS
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Re: how practicable is it in the streets?

I could never comprehend the questions and the rationale of people who ask and assume that Aikido is not practical and workable on the streets.

First and foremost, unless otherwise proven, one must answer the question, WHY DO YOU THINK IT IS NOT EFFECTIVE?

A lot of people assume that it is not effective without really making a study or an analysis on why it CANT be effective.

Now I would like to request that those people who doubts the effectiveness of Aikido reply on my inquiry.

Do you think Aikido is not effective? If yes WHY?


Until a reply beyond reasonable doubt that Aikido is not effective I guess the sensible thing to assume would be it is effective. Why? The records of O sensei and other Aikidokas using the art EFFECTIVELY!
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Old 04-20-2004, 07:47 PM   #15
gasman
 
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Re: how practicable is it in the streets?

Quote:
Question - do you feel "studying the storm" would make studying the center easier or more difficult? And how about vice versa?
easier both ways. the spoke leads to the hub eventually. but maybe some people only train around the rim...? we've had a few "hard" stylists come to train in our dojo, we've currently got experienced tae kwondoka, karateka, jiujitsuka and even a roman wrestler. as long as they are willing to accept that there is something to be learned from training softly. there are so many people who underestimate it because aikido looks weak, esp in beginners classes. same goes for people who diss taichi because they think its an exercise for geriatrics. also, some join looking for competition and ego-building. they dissapear quickly.

i had this argument with a wing chun practicing friend just last saturday while I was tending my door. i showed him ikkyo one time. then i told him i was going to use it on him. of course he resisted so i immediately took him to kote gaesh ura. the look on his face was priceless
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Old 04-21-2004, 09:52 AM   #16
PeaceHeather
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Tongue Re: how practicable is it in the streets?

Quote:
aikiSteve wrote:
You too? What a small world. This happens to me all the time.

Steve
Re: heading to one's car surrounded by guys with swords...

"Well, duh, my husband is one of them and I'm good friends with all the others ones!"



What can I say -- I'm into medieval reenactment, and a lot of my friends fight 1600s-style rapier technique.

Heather, cheerful medieval calligrapher and screaming white-belt newbie
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Old 04-21-2004, 10:26 AM   #17
Bronson
 
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Re: how practicable is it in the streets?

Hey Heather,

How long have guys been doing the medieval thing? Are you with the SCA or another group? I used to be with a group in Kalamazoo MI. If you came up for the Valentines Day Feast and Massacre from 1995-2000 I may have fenced your husband

Bronson

"A pacifist is not really a pacifist if he is unable to make a choice between violence and non-violence. A true pacifist is able to kill or maim in the blink of an eye, but at the moment of impending destruction of the enemy he chooses non-violence."
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Old 04-21-2004, 09:36 PM   #18
PeaceHeather
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Tongue Re: how practicable is it in the streets?

*laugh*

ValDay... that would be Three Hills or maybe Cynnabar, right? Yes, I'm SCA; used to be Shadowed Stars (Fort Wayne) and am now cheerfully living in Rivenstar (Lafayette).

When I lived farther north, I did occasionally make it to ValDay, but Rivenstar is just far enough south to make the trip a royal pain. So, uh, what's your SCA name?

For the rest of the aikidoka, we now return you to your regularly scheduled topic.

Peace!
Heather
aka Arrantxa Idazle Iruñekoa, CW, CE, ADG (the name and initials are part of the medieval game we play)
fka Heather of Shadowed Stars, creator of the Infamous Kite (and if you don't know, I ain't tellin')
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Old 04-22-2004, 02:36 AM   #19
Bronson
 
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Re: how practicable is it in the streets?

I'll keep it short so as not to hijack the thread too much

Quote:
PeaceHeather wrote:
ValDay... that would be Three Hills or maybe Cynnabar, right?
Three Hills

Quote:
PeaceHeather wrote:
So, uh, what's your SCA name?
It was Gregor Omologane. Picked for the tongue-in-cheek meanings of the names: Gregor=fierce...which I'm not and Omologane=little bald or tonsured one...which I am

Bronson

p.s. I think I'm done dredging up old SCA memories for a while now

"A pacifist is not really a pacifist if he is unable to make a choice between violence and non-violence. A true pacifist is able to kill or maim in the blink of an eye, but at the moment of impending destruction of the enemy he chooses non-violence."
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Old 04-22-2004, 10:37 AM   #20
PeaceHeather
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Re: how practicable is it in the streets?

Quote:
Bronson wrote:
p.s. I think I'm done dredging up old SCA memories for a while now
Yes, but are they practical on the street??
Heather
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