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Old 03-31-2004, 10:55 AM   #1
arif
Location: istanbul
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Freaky! learning aikido from books or cds

hello
I have just thinking of learning aikido from the books or cds for I want to speed up my aikido learning process. what do you think about this? do you think this will work?
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Old 03-31-2004, 11:58 AM   #2
John Matsushima
 
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The learning process for AIKIDO must be fully appreciated from every stage, and "speeding it up" should not be attempted, for you may miss many important lessons. Books, videotapes, and CD's are used best to expand and enhance the learning process. Use them to study various aspects of the art more in depth. Be cautious as to which books you pick, for the author may be taking you down a different path, or direction, and explain things from a different perspective than the sensei whom you train under, which can cause confusion and complications in your training. My best advice to achieving a higher level in AIKIDO is to practice sincerely and as often as you can.

Sincerely,

John Matsushima

*Some quotes of O Sensei;

-True budo cannot be described by words or letters; the gods will not allow you to make such explanations

-In your training, do not be in a hurry, for it takes a minimum of ten years to master the basics and advance to the first rung.

-Progress comes to those who train and train; reliance on secret techniques will get you nowhere.
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Old 03-31-2004, 12:27 PM   #3
Greg Jennings
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Quote:
John Matsushima wrote:
Be cautious as to which books you pick, for the author may be taking you down a different path, or direction, and explain things from a different perspective than the sensei whom you train under, which can cause confusion and complications in your training.
This comes to roost with my students every so often. They start training and immediately run off and buy "Aikido and the Dynamic Sphere". They are then confused because the way we train is fundamentally different from that behind the writing of AATDS.

OTOH, a friend of mine puts out CDs that, while a little different in technical details, serve the purpose very well. I tell my students that if they do what my friend's CDs show with the mindset of our dojo, things will come out right.
Quote:
John Matsushima wrote:
*Some quotes of O Sensei;

-True budo cannot be described by words or letters; the gods will not allow you to make such explanations
And yet, the Founder and many, many great instructors, including the heads of the organization your current dojo belongs to, have published books, videos, etc. So, I've got to believe that "the gods" let them get a little something good in them...
Quote:
John Matsushima wrote:
-In your training, do not be in a hurry, for it takes a minimum of ten years to master the basics and advance to the first rung.
And he told Tenryu, the great sumotori, that he'd learn everything needed in a couple of months.

10 years for the rest of us, 2 months for Tenryu. Dang, I feel stupid.

Regards,

Greg Jennings
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Old 03-31-2004, 01:13 PM   #4
Erik
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Quote:
In your training, do not be in a hurry, for it takes a minimum of ten years to master the basics and advance to the first rung.
So Morihei Ueshiba started teaching before he had mastered the basics? How interesting, and I thought the Japanese, back in the day, were all mythical beings with 80 years of martial arts experience before they stepped into a dojo whereupon they immediately began practicing 30 hours a day for 9 days a week.
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Old 03-31-2004, 02:23 PM   #5
shihonage
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This is not entirely on topic, but I've always been curious about the kind of person who learns Aikido ONLY from books and videos.

I would even pay a small fee to see a video of their Aikido.
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Old 03-31-2004, 03:03 PM   #6
Don_Modesto
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Re: learning aikido from books or cds

Quote:
aydın tosun (arif) wrote:
hello

I have just thinking of learning aikido from the books or cds for I want to speed up my aikido learning process. what do you think about this? do you think this will work?
Were you to train more, this would speed up the process so I don't have the previous poster's issue with "speeding up".

If you don't skip training to watch videos, I think they will help. They will inspire you and pique your wonder. They will show you things you wouldn't have imagined and thus give you different perspectives for arranging your training agenda.

I use these resources constantly and contra conventionaly wisdom, I feel they teach me a lot.

Don J. Modesto
St. Petersburg, Florida
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http://www.theaikidodojo.com/
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Old 03-31-2004, 09:31 PM   #7
David Yap
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Quote:
Greg Jennings wrote:
This comes to roost with my students every so often. They start training and immediately run off and buy "Aikido and the Dynamic Sphere". They are then confused because the way we train is fundamentally different from that behind the writing of AATDS.
Hi all,

I bought my copy of the AATDS in the mid-70's, except for the philosophical part of the book, none of the techniques really make any sense to me. It wasn't until early 90's when I retrieved this book from my library after starting Aikido; then I began to understand the techniques. I also have some problems with the terms in the book - the irimi-nage we learned in the dojo is termed kyu ho-nage in book and vice versa. But, specifically mentioned by authors is that Aikido can only be learned in a dojo environment (or something to that effect).

Does watching video speed up your learning process? My take is that it depends on the individual. It can either speed up or retard your learning process. Watching a video is no different to watching your instructor in the dojo. The key question is "You watched but what did you see". Some students have limited understanding of the art, by watching video they get confused further as techniques taught in the dojo might be different due to various factors (such as knowledge of the instructor, physical built of the instructor/the uke, the teaching methodology adopted by the instructor/dojo/association, etc.).

Of course, instructors can preempt this confusion with explanations to the students on the mechanic/elements of the various techniques. The students will then look out for these elements while watching the video and SEE for themselves the fundamentals and principles of aikido in action.

This is my two sen worth.

Regards

David

PS. I know of a shodan instructor who has 100s of video and books in his collection but I have yet to see or feel the essence of aikiDO in his techniques.

Last edited by David Yap : 03-31-2004 at 09:40 PM.
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Old 03-31-2004, 09:43 PM   #8
p00kiethebear
 
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Quote:
do you think this will work?
No.

"Fighting for peace is like screwing for virginity"
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Old 04-01-2004, 08:32 AM   #9
Greg Jennings
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Re: learning aikido from books or cds

Quote:
aydın tosun (arif) wrote:
do you think this will work?
Yes. Provided that:

1. Do it only in addition to your normal classes.

2. Don't pay any less attention to your instructors and the senior students.

3. You use learning aids that closely align with the aikido of your instructor. Maybe you can get your instructor to make some CDs for your dojo. It's a good way to put a little money in the dojo fund.

Regards,

Greg Jennings
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Old 04-01-2004, 08:43 AM   #10
Don_Modesto
Dojo: Messores Sensei (Largo, Fl.)
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Quote:
David Yap wrote:
Watching a video is no different to watching your instructor in the dojo. The key question is "You watched but what did you see".
Yeah. What he said.

Don J. Modesto
St. Petersburg, Florida
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http://www.theaikidodojo.com/
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Old 04-01-2004, 09:34 AM   #11
justinm
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I seem to recall a senior karateka (Henry Plee?) writing about his own early progression in karate being based entirely on books. When he finally met an instructor, he was graded to a mid level dan grade based on what he had studied from books.

I may be wrong - it was a long time ago since I remember reading this. For some reason Henry Plee's book "Beginner to Black Belt" springs to mind.

However it could have been someone else entirely.

Now I'm going to have to dig that book out when I get home...

Justin

Justin McCarthy
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Old 04-01-2004, 11:52 AM   #12
bob_stra
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Re: learning aikido from books or cds

Quote:
aydın tosun (arif) wrote:
hello

I have just thinking of learning aikido from the books or cds for I want to speed up my aikido learning process. what do you think about this? do you think this will work?
I'm not sure I understand - you want to learn just from books etc?

Well...

I suppose it's *theoretically* possible, assuming -

(1) The person had well above average body awareness and sensitivity, gained via other methods (dance, other martial art, that nifty La Pakour stuff etc)

(2) They knew how to learn

(3) The source materials were of good quality

(4) They had a training partner

Frankly, if you're *lucky* enough to have all that, you may as well go to Las Vegas and play Blackjack.

Aikido is so rooted in intricacies and nuances that it would be *extremely* difficult to pick up *cold*.

Is there no Aikido in your area? Certainly there are things you can do to address 1-3 above, so that when the opportunity presents itself, you'll gain skills rapidly.

If you're really keen to see this through -

perhaps you could set up a distance education program, where in you could train with some friends and then visit an understanding dojo once a month?

Happens in BJJ (brazilian jujitsu) all the time ("garage dojo's").

Last edited by bob_stra : 04-01-2004 at 11:54 AM.
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Old 04-01-2004, 01:30 PM   #13
John Boswell
 
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There will never be a visual substitute for training on the mat.

HOWEVER, you can learn and pick up details from video and reading... but its still theory until you put it into practice on the mat.

2 cents.

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Old 04-01-2004, 01:42 PM   #14
mantis
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I tried to learn judo from the bruce tegner book "judo beginner to blackbelt" when I was in 6th grade.

It didn't work out to well, but it did help plant the seeds for my future training.

To a greater degree, so did the 1972 TV series Kung-Fu. The first season is coming out on dvd this month!
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Old 04-01-2004, 09:23 PM   #15
David Yap
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Quote:
Justin McCarthy (justinm) wrote:
I seem to recall a senior karateka (Henry Plee?) writing about his own early progression in karate being based entirely on books. When he finally met an instructor, he was graded to a mid level dan grade based on what he had studied from books.
Hi Justin,

Henry Plee was a yudansha and had years of training in Judo before embarking on Karate. You don't necessary need a partner to train with in Karate and blending is not an essential part of Karate, especially in the atemi aspect. Comparing to Aikido, Karate is not the right case to make comparison; Judo, BJJ, Shao Lin Chin Na would make better examples.

I also have a copy of his book on Karate. It is priceless book now, containing photos of the pioneers of Karate in mainland Japan. If you read the names of the instructors he trained under, you will come across some were also either students of O sensei or were highly influenced him.

Regards

David

Last edited by David Yap : 04-01-2004 at 09:33 PM.
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Old 04-07-2004, 12:25 AM   #16
*Aiki*Jimmy_yan
Dojo: Shudokan Australia (Glen Waverley Dojo)
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you gotta train with your own expirience dude... ive tried learning from a begginner's guide once, and it makes stuff look too easy and it seems like the book is doing it for you. You have to make up your own mind about things because everyone has different ways of doing teqniques.

OSU!!
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