Welcome to AikiWeb Aikido Information
AikiWeb: The Source for Aikido Information
AikiWeb's principal purpose is to serve the Internet community as a repository and dissemination point for aikido information.

Sections
home
aikido articles
columns

Discussions
forums
aikiblogs

Databases
dojo search
seminars
image gallery
supplies
links directory

Reviews
book reviews
video reviews
dvd reviews
equip. reviews

News
submit
archive

Miscellaneous
newsletter
rss feeds
polls
about

Follow us on



Home > AikiWeb Aikido Forums
Go Back   AikiWeb Aikido Forums > General

Hello and thank you for visiting AikiWeb, the world's most active online Aikido community! This site is home to over 22,000 aikido practitioners from around the world and covers a wide range of aikido topics including techniques, philosophy, history, humor, beginner issues, the marketplace, and more.

If you wish to join in the discussions or use the other advanced features available, you will need to register first. Registration is absolutely free and takes only a few minutes to complete so sign up today!

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 05-09-2003, 03:22 AM   #226
Liz Evans
Location: London
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 5
Offline
Luke,

Perhaps my comment was a little flipant - (I forget that 'tongue in cheek' humour doesn't translate well via email.) Still the point being made is that highly accomplished Aikido students come from all walks of life - and your dojo may still choose to refuse to train them.

However it's great that 'light' men are allowed in - so it's just women, older people, and those without Masters that fail the interview.

(Discrimination and predujice makes me feel uncomfortable, especially as I am on the list of undesirables I hope you can appreciate this.)

And finally, most people go to the Dojo to practice Aikido - not to assert their gender. You could argue that you go to do both - but I'm not sure the Dojo is the right place to do this. Still each to their own!

A big thank you to all the Dojo's that welcome all and respect to all the Sensais that teach with great tolerance and generosity.

I wish you well.

No Name
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-09-2003, 06:16 AM   #227
LukeTBrown
Dojo: Shoshin Aikido Dojo
Location: Orlando, Florida
Join Date: Sep 2002
Posts: 13
Offline
I don't have a master's degree.

Point being, you are not here to see how we train and the people that train in the dojo.
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-09-2003, 08:17 AM   #228
Mark Balogh
Dojo: Mushinkan Dojo, Guildford
Location: Surrey, UK
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 106
England
Offline
Ratio of Male/Female practitioners....

All I have to say is thank god for female aikidoka, especially those that keep it up. I would get sick of training with blokes all the time! You need a balance.

A nice example is our childrens class that is almost 50:50 male to female. It has a delightful atmosphere.

And not wanting to dodge around the obvious issue... I have been out with 2 girls I have met through Aikido in 8 years. I think we all like to met partners with a common interest. As long as the training is maintained correctly, I think this is a positive thing.
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-09-2003, 08:35 AM   #229
cindy perkins
Dojo: AikiDog Dojo
Location: Pittsfield, New Hampshire
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 50
Offline
OK. I have read the entire thread, which has taken about an hour. Whew. I have lots of feelings about it.

1) Sensei Linden has paid his dues to get his rank and open his dojo. He should be able to select who he trains, by any criteria -- including race, religion, gender, etc. -- that he wishes. As there are many other dojos that are at least as good in the area, he is not single-handedly creating a discrimination/oppression situation. I believe he should state his criteria openly on his website and in any advertising. If he receives some anger about it, we certainly know he can handle it. I just imagine applying, going to interview, being turned down, and wondering if it was some deep character flaw in me that the teacher could see...never underestimate how much power students can give teachers!

2) As his posts in the aggregate have revealed, Sensei Linden is uncomfortable training women. He is afraid for them, he attributes negative characteristics to them, etc. Given this, he should not train women. I for one would not wish to train with someone who responded to me negatively as a member of a class of people; I can imagine how uncomfortable I'd be training with a woman or man who strongly disliked working with me because of my height or color or accent...something I cannot change easily or change their mind about.

3) The question of whether or not this is parallel to racial discrimination is quite apt. There are several older people I know who miss the "good old days" when they could go from their neighborhoods to restaurants to clubs and never have to deal with a black person in an equal role. It just makes them uncomfortable, and they haven't been able to get past it. They usually manage to find such places still, usually by spending more money than most blacks can yet afford to, or by setting up small clubs where blacks instantly know they're unwelcome and leave. (BTW, if ASU forced Sensei Linden to accept women, I suspect that is how his group would handle it.)

4) Saotome Sensei is a wise and compassionate man. He chooses not to enforce ASU policy on Sensei Linden, probably knowing it would not be beneficial for DL, his current group of students, or women who might train there. That said, I believe that ASU should change its stated policy to the "recommends non-discrimination on the basis of sex..." suggested by an earlier poster.

5) I feel hurt by some of the comments made by Sensei Linden in his posts. "Always whining." Unable to hack it. Creating dissension, bringing personal stuff onto the mat, etc., etc. And no, this is not a whine. In aikido, if you have skill, you see in uke's face and motion if you have caused injury. In this forum, DL cannot see injury he may cause; therefore, I must tell him. As with bruises and other injuries I take on the mat, these heal. But please know that any derogatory comments made about a class hurt all members of that class, perhaps most especially those who least fit the comment.

6) It is fortunate for both women and men in the Orlando area that there are several other excellent dojos in the area. It seems that many more posters of both sexes have expressed their preference for mixed-gender settings. Some like single-sex settings. If I were Queen of the World, I would have all areas have at least four or five dojos, with one that is (at least some of the time) men-only, and another that is (at least some of the time) women-only. I have been in men-only and women-only bars, and they do have different atmospheres; there is something to learn there. If Sensei Linden were operating in a more rural area with no other choices around, I would feel much more concerned. I am glad he has chosen such a diverse and dojo-rich location.

7) Read Sensei Linden's posts. He has told us that the reason he excludes women is due to his own limitations. He gets frightened for them. He gets annoyed with characteristics he classifies as peculiarly female. He doesn't like the disciplinary difficulties that have arisen in his classes in the past. He has further stated that he is willing to accept those limitations; that in his view, his time is too short to change now. And, he has built a dojo that accepts and attracts men who more or less share his viewpoint.

You know, I too have weaknesses that I see and am unwilling to work on right now. Some I think are "just too hard" to change, but I intend to really focus on them when I'm in better shape with the batch of flaws I'm working on now. Some I have a mixed relationship with, so I'm not completely sure I want to change. I hope none of these are too obnoxious! Therefore, I at least will leave this thread be. Thank you, Sensei daniel Linden, for starting a thread that obviously engaged a great number of us and a lot of passion. If I am ever in Orlando, I shall be sure to contact Sensei Hooker or another fine teacher and ask for permission to visit. And honestly that is not meant as a jab. It is meant to say, I respect your desire for man-only space, and I rejoice that there are skilled and wise teachers out there who would welcome me.

Cindy perkins

***************

"The day I was born I made my first mistake, and by that path have I sought wisdom ever since." The Mahabharata
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-10-2003, 02:25 PM   #230
Dennis Hooker
Dojo: Shindai Dojo, Orlando Fl.
Location: Orlando Florida
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 456
Offline
Cindy, I can only say a few words on this and I will not comment on the sexes in a dojo. This subject is far too emotional and has brought the emotions out in many people. I think this thread should have died a long time ago. Linden Sensei is my dearest and oldest friend as well as an ASU colleague. He is also blunt and holds no punches when it comes to stating his opinion. He is also about a subtle as a nine pound hammer and as loyal a friend and defender as a person could want. He is of course entitled to his opinion and beliefs, as are we all. The problem with this damn internet is it does not allow us to know the person in many cases. However I must say that Linden Sensei is in my opinion an Aikido Shihan and were you to know him personally I think you would find his statements reasonable and from the heart. I also think you would not be offended. Since he is my oldest friend and brother in Aikido I must say, and hope you under stand, that if you would not train as his dojo then you should not train at mine.

This is an old thread worthy of only a fast death. I will take no further part in it.

Dennis Hooker

www.shindai.com

Dennis Hooker: (DVD) Zanshin and Ma-ai in Aikido
https://www.createspace.com/238049

www.shindai.com
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-10-2003, 09:07 PM   #231
cindy perkins
Dojo: AikiDog Dojo
Location: Pittsfield, New Hampshire
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 50
Offline
My deepest apologies to you, Sensei Hooker, and to anyone else who felt offended by my post. I did my best to speak my feelings without attacking or disrespecting anyone. The only reason I would not train at Sensei Linden's dojo would be because he would not have me.
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-11-2003, 08:49 AM   #232
opherdonchin
Dojo: Baltimore Aikido
Location: Baltimore
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 586
Offline
Hey Cindy,

I read your post as being heartfelt, sincere, non-confrontational, and one of the more interesting and carefully thought out posts of the thread. It's too bad Dennis Hooker took it as an attack on his friend, but I think that says more about him and his attitude towards this thread than it does about your post, to my mind.

Yours in Aiki
Opher
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-11-2003, 09:42 AM   #233
mike lee
Location: Taipei, Taiwan
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 646
Offline
simple, but complicated

I've long considered making my first dojo in the US a "men's club," primarily because it would eliminate a lot of issues that crop up between men, women and teachers during the course of training. I think that a single gender dojo can keep people more focused on training.

On the other hand, this would open up another problem as some would see this as a kind of bias.

I've yet to conclude what I shall do. Maybe, in the end, I'll just stay home and practice tai chi chuan.
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-11-2003, 11:50 AM   #234
Nacho_mx
Dojo: Federación Mexicana de Aikido
Location: Mexico City
Join Date: Mar 2002
Posts: 188
Offline
Here is how it works in our school, you sign up, you change, you train, you change, you go on with your business. This is not a club, there is no social interaction inside the dojo, no chatting or laughing in the mat (plenty of smiles, thought), no condescending attitude towards anyone, no discrimination or bias, no concessions or special considerations, no complaints, no excuses. Everyone gets a fair shot at practicing the art, the only thing that can prevent anyone from training here is a poor attitude (laziness, pride, lack of respect for anyone or anything) and the unwillingness to change it.

So we don´t have this so called "issues" Before O´Sensei watching us from the kamiza, men and women are equal, they all sweat, they all ache, they all grunt and gasp for air, they all have doubts and fears, they take ukemi and get up.

So if anyone is not welcomed at an aikido dojo (a place to celebrate life) for whatever prejudice (of belief, race, gender or age), keep your way and don´t look back, it´s their loss.
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-22-2003, 02:12 AM   #235
mle
Dojo: The Dojo (www.the-dojo.com
Location: Bavaria
Join Date: Jun 2000
Posts: 78
Offline
Re: simple, but complicated

Quote:
Mike Lee (mike lee) wrote:
I've long considered making my first dojo in the US a "men's club," primarily because it would eliminate a lot of issues that crop up between men, women and teachers during the course of training.
That's a management problem. The fault of problems in the dojo lies with the dojo-cho. Not the students.

What concerns me deeply is Dan's defenders reacting on an ad hominem basis.

That is, they are taking rational questions as personal attacks.

That's a bad sign.

That means there isn't really a rational defense.

Not that there needs to be, but while I am willing to accept an aberration, I will call it an aberration.

I have learned that Don Angier actually WOULD accept women into his dojo if one demonstrated the committment and wherewithal to do so. In his case, that's HIS art. It doesn't belong to anyone else, it's private.

In the case of one or two of the old arts, you must practice a certain religion in addition to your training. It's part of the deal: If you want one, you must have the other.

Aikido, a "public" art, is more difficult to defensibly segregate. I mean, it's only aikido, it's not Navy Seal training.

It's difficult to commit deeply to a budo unless you have someone behind you to wash your gi, make sure your bills are paid and that you eat something besides bacon cheeseburgers and beer.

Women are socialized to take that part in most modern societies. The "caretaker" role is more involving for the supporting mate (whatever gender) than the other tends to understand. So women (the usual support side) tend to never get the chance to really commit to budo and grow.

Not unless the entire dojo pitches in.

I have to tell you that my poor ex washed my gi and learned to keep house while I was in my Crazed Budo Junkie phase. That disconnect and other things ruined the relationship.

Private clubs can make their own rules, but if you make something weird public, expect it to be called wierd.

I'm not going to pass judgement on Mr Linden until I meet him and train with him.

I hope he can do the same for me.

mle

  Reply With Quote
Old 05-22-2003, 06:50 AM   #236
DGLinden
Dojo: Shoshin Aikido Dojos
Location: Orlando
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 159
Offline
Ms Gordon,

I pass judgement on no man or woman. Either I choose to associate with you or I do not. Nothing anyone does can change my mind. I am old. I have earned the right to be descriminating in my choices. I also reserve the right to change my mind. Until you have trained in Aikido for over thirty years you are not qualified to judge me or make comments cloaked in cute qualifications, that is why I have not looked at this thread for several months and why I will never return to it again. I must say, however, that I found the comments by Mr Oakes to be insightful and intelligent. Please listen to Hooker Sensei and let this thread die a decent death.

Ms Gordon, I look forward to inviting you teach at my dojo. You are what? A godan?, A rokudan? Please let me know so I can set something up.

Last edited by DGLinden : 05-22-2003 at 06:58 AM.

Daniel G. Linden
Author of ON MASTERING AIKIDO (c) 2004
Founder Shoshin Aikido Dojos
www.shoshindojo.com
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-30-2004, 02:52 PM   #237
mle
Dojo: The Dojo (www.the-dojo.com
Location: Bavaria
Join Date: Jun 2000
Posts: 78
Offline
Quote:
Daniel Linden (DGLinden) wrote:
Ms Gordon,

I pass judgement on no man or woman.
You already have. Colleagues have read your posts with some degree of shock, dismay and disappointment.

I am not an aikidoka, and I forsook that system because of its politics.

You are a victim of said politics, as well as the politics of where you live, and where you grew up.

You and many of my male relatives. I never listened to them either. If I had, I would barefoot in some trailer park somewhere with a bunch o' rug rats and a life I hate. No thanks. Damn shame we women got control of our organs, anyway, huh? ;->
Quote:
Please listen to Hooker Sensei and let this thread die a decent death.
I've crossed sword points with Dennis.

We had a good giggle together.

I never quit with him, either. He would have been insulted if I had.
Quote:
Ms Gordon, I look forward to inviting you teach at my dojo. You are what? A godan?, A rokudan? Please let me know so I can set something up.
BWAHAHAHA!

Oh, for Pete's sake Dan!

I left aikido after shodan. I don't know my rank now, nor do I really care to. I might be sandan by now if I had stayed and played the game. I'm no good at games, though.. no one in their right mind would give me a godan, much less a rokudan.. though I did hand my teacher in Austin his godan with my own hands. The shihan asked me to. I do not know why. It meant so much to me.

What is 15 years of practice under no one master worth? A couple severe injuries, chronic pain, and lots of knowledge about what NOT to do. I still love to train, in spite of it all. My teacher feels the same.

However, my current teacher, Chuck Gordon, holds many arts most people have forgotten. Fascinating stuff. He has taught at every single Aikido-L seminar in the US save the one in CA, and that was because we live in Germany and it was simply too much to go. We did make it to Toronto in 2003, however. He taught an atemi class and I taught a massage class. Pretty normal for us.

In any case I have to thank you, as you gave me inspiration for a paper I presented in absentia at last year's Guelph Sword School. You provided some good material. As it was on a public web site, I was questioned as to the source, and when I led my editor to it, she was, um.. what did she say? "It cracked me up to read people defending him. It's his choice, and really, who cares what he does?"

I happen to agree. But like other people with nasty habits, such as writing, poetry, singing, or hamster love, it's best kept private. (in Andy's case the singing is encouraged, however..

Do what you want. But if it's unusual, or unadvised, don't publicise without expecting someone to ask you what the hell you think you are doing.

Here's what I've done:

http://www.ejmas.com/proceedings/GSJSA03dolan.htm

I wrote this paper to help people like you, Dan.. my father is one such, and while I still baffle him, we have fun together and enjoy each other. He has never, and will never, watch me train. He just doesn't understand how much I am his daughter. 8-)

For those curious about women in budo:

http://koryu.com/library/wwj1.html

http://koryu.com/library/dskoss4.html

There is no more impeccable source of information than the Skosses. They are not biased by affiliation or, I believe, native prejudice. The information is plain and fascinating.

Enjoy.

Emily

  Reply With Quote
Old 01-31-2004, 11:32 AM   #238
aikilouis
Location: Germany
Join Date: Nov 2000
Posts: 218
France
Offline
Thank you Emily, very interesting read.

Dear, this thread brings back some memories...

... which allows me to salute the female aikidoka who practise(d) with commitment in our dojo : Lucile, Vanessa, Cathy, Leslie, Savanah.

  Reply With Quote
Old 01-31-2004, 09:54 PM   #239
Rich Stephens
Location: California
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 28
Offline
An interesting thread. I have no problem with the male only dojo as described.

However, I found one reason for excluding women a little odd. If I read correctly (may not have) one reason was that men can't train properly for fear of hurting the women and this interferes with the training. I could see how that might be true of football, or boxing, or any number of other activities. But Aikido?

Fear of harming someone is essential in Aikido, because Aikido is supposed to be practiced in a way that does not harm out attackers. There exists the potential to be attacked by those that are weaker than we are in this world and it is our responsibility to protect ourselves without harming them. Therefore even the strongest man must know how to stop even the weakest without harming them. Is this not Aikido? Is this forgotten when one only trains with those equal to them in ability and physical strength, flexibility and pain threshold? I don't know but it's at least possible. (however it's equally possible that Linden Sensei has other ways of teaching this without requiring the pressence of women or smaller folks or fat folks or whiners or whatever).

I'd also like to remind everyone hung up on the policy saying one thing while one of its dojos does something different that, well, nothing could be more Japanese than that disconnect between stated policy and reality! I really miss that sort of thing now that I live in California.
  Reply With Quote
Old 02-07-2004, 07:42 PM   #240
Rikimaru
Dojo: Bulungan
Location: Jakarta
Join Date: Sep 2002
Posts: 3
Offline
My question in my mind is: Does anyone attend a dojo that keeps the sexes separate while training? for what reason?? 'cause we practice Aikido together, no matter we practice with other sex.
  Reply With Quote
Old 02-16-2004, 12:34 PM   #241
"Unregistered"
IP Hash: a2d16453
Anonymous User
Separate genders/ASU/Mr. Linden, et al

Regarding the thread on separate gender training, I would agree it is Mr. Linden's dojo, he can train whomever he chooses. I agree with many who point out his rationale is really no different from those who say "I choose not to train African Americans, Jews, or White Protestant males". It is his choice, prejudiced though it may be. It is also our choice to see it for what it is. I whole heartedly agree with Cindy--obviously, Mr. Linden is not a good choice to instruct females anyway. Were he the ONLY instructor in town, he would still be an unwise choice for a female to learn from--he obviously has some unresolved issues of his own that need fixing first. I would say anyone who calls himself a 'man's man' is broadcasting his problems.

Regardless, I think we should focus what we think of this prejudice not on Mr. Linden, who is not going to change, and instead look at what we ourselves are supporting: Mr. Hooker would not let anyone train in his dojo who notices Mr. Linden is prejudiced? ASU accepts dojos into their ranks that are prejudiced? Are those people we want to give monetary support? Just as Mr. Linden can have his prejudiced views, and Mr. Hooker and Mr. Saotome can support them, we can choose not to support them. If ASU supports instructors who are so personally limited that they are unable to instruct women, then what is next? They support those who 'don't feel comfortable with Blacks in my class'? Everyone is responsible for their own choices. I choose not to support those who support prejudice. I would encourage others to make similar decisions.
  Reply With Quote
Old 02-16-2004, 08:01 PM   #242
stuartjvnorton
 
stuartjvnorton's Avatar
Dojo: Aikido Shudokan
Location: Melbourne
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 225
Offline
Quote:
Daniel Linden (DGLinden) wrote:
To answer your question, Mr. Fox - yes! This bothers me! This gets in the way! Flirty men have occasionally transformed my aikido practice into a social/personal liability, an opening through which someone with very few social skills can gain a captive audience for his ministrations.
Sounds like you aught to be screening on maturity level, not the presence of the meat & 2 veg.

As for single sex anythings, they seem a little archaic, neh?

Assiciations like Scouts/Guides that were created over 100 years ago are a product of their time, but do single-sex dojo/country-clubs, gyms or whatevers these days have an excuse?

Cheers,

Stuart.

<still trying to figure out how to do ryote mochi with a brandy glass in 1 hand>

Last edited by stuartjvnorton : 02-16-2004 at 08:03 PM.
  Reply With Quote
Old 02-17-2004, 09:42 AM   #243
Gabriel A
Location: Costa Rica
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 44
Offline
Quote:
Dave Miller wrote:
In my dojo, we try to have everyone train with everyone else. That means that the tallest person ends up doing techniques with the shortest person and everything in between. This helps to make sure that you can effectively perform the technique on anyone, regardless of height and weight, etc. At that point, gender makes little difference. The only thing that segregates us on the mat is level of ability. (i.e. we don't practice upper-rank techniques on lower-rank aikidokas.)

IMHO, that is how it should be. This is how you learn the technique most fully and effectively. It's one thing to practice with the same person for years and get really good with them. It's another thing entirely to get to where you can work with anyone of any size and/or height and still work effectively.
Dave, I totally agree!

By the way I want to piont out the change that DG Linden has had (even if I don't agree with you). This has helped us share different views and my opinion it shows how important it is to train with different people.

Well just a piece of my mind

GREAT MINDS HAVE PURPOSES, OTHERS HAVE WISHES"
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-28-2006, 09:19 PM   #244
James Kelly
Dojo: Glendale Aikikai
Location: Los Angeles
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 109
United Nations
Offline
Re: Training: Separate the Sexes?

I can't believe I read the whole thing...
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-28-2006, 09:29 PM   #245
Edwin Neal
Dojo: Ronin
Location: Henderson, North Carolina
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 597
United_States
Offline
Re: Training: Separate the Sexes?

ridiculous... aikido is for everyone... nuff said

Edwin Neal


  Reply With Quote
Old 01-29-2006, 12:09 AM   #246
Edwin Neal
Dojo: Ronin
Location: Henderson, North Carolina
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 597
United_States
Offline
Re: Training: Separate the Sexes?

whoa sorry not enough said... after spending a couple of hours reading this thing i will try to be brief...
IT IS WRONG... dance around it any way you like it is discrimination and is illegal... as part of an org. that states such he should withdraw from org or be ejected... it is illegal period these kind of cases bounce back and forth in various juridictions and cases, but it is discrimination based on gender which is illegal... walk into any business and have them say we do not serve women and it would be obviously illegal... it is contrary to the fundamental principles of aikido... there can be no harmony when there is division... now on a more confrontational note... i too read the line about the digestive tract as an obviously offensive reference to homosexuals... in spite of Mr. Lindens later attempt to claim it was not so, even if (which i believe it was not) it was a reference to overweight individuals this is still offensive, as not all overweight person over eat, some are obese because of medical problems... Mr. Linden is an embarassment i would never want to be associated with someone like this... we as aikidoka cannot lay claim to the moral high ground,the Way of Peace and Harmony, and do nothing to stop such immoral acts... there is a proper context in which same sex practice may be valid, but to categorically deny anyone based on gender is wrong no matter how glibly the individual protests that it is innocent... Freedom has limits... with out limits there is no freedom only chaos and anarchy...
if anyone takes offense at my words... sorry, but this is the truth of the matter as i see it... the only person who should take any offense is Mr. Linden, and if he does then it is because his policy is offensive... division and misrepresentation of aikido is something all aikidoka should stand against...
rant off...

Edwin Neal


  Reply With Quote
Old 01-29-2006, 12:55 AM   #247
neaikikai
Dojo: New England Aikikai
Location: Boston
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 14
United_States
Offline
Re: Training: Separate the Sexes?

Very simple, Osensei did not separate the sexes, they trained with each other. I believe he knew a little bit more than us, on how Aikido should be taught. Also, I feel pretty sure it is going to be a man attacking a woman, not another woman, so they need to understand the difference in size and strength. Why can't people just practice the way Osensei wanted us to.
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-29-2006, 01:13 AM   #248
Edwin Neal
Dojo: Ronin
Location: Henderson, North Carolina
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 597
United_States
Offline
Re: Training: Separate the Sexes?

because of egos michael... really sad considering the philosophy of our art...

Edwin Neal


  Reply With Quote
Old 01-29-2006, 04:45 AM   #249
James Kelly
Dojo: Glendale Aikikai
Location: Los Angeles
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 109
United Nations
Offline
Re: Training: Separate the Sexes?

Actually Edwin, you're only half right. It is wrong. But it's not illegal. There are discriminatory clubs all over this country and they survive because they are private and Americans have the right to associate with whomever they want no matter how misguided their choices.

But what stuck out for me... to think that there are no depressed people among his students. That's a potentially dangerous blinder to have on. The trouble with an authority figure projecting his happiness on others is that someone may in fact be depressed, but not able to express it for fear of messing up the blissful environment (disappointing the sensei, or even worse, being deemed not fit for the group). It's a textbook dystopia and has the potential to do damage to his students.

Didn't mean to give so much time to this long dead thread, but I guess it took so long to read it I might as well spend a little writing about it.
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-29-2006, 08:25 AM   #250
Mark Freeman
Dojo: Dartington
Location: Devon
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 1,219
United Kingdom
Offline
Re: Training: Separate the Sexes?

Quote:
Didn't mean to give so much time to this long dead thread, but I guess it took so long to read it I might as well spend a little writing about it.
Me too, but its hard not to read it and not to be moved,

IMHO After getting as far as post # 94 I came to the conclusion that as long as Mr Linden is not breaking the law, there is nothing you can do to change it. He will certainly not take any notice of what has been said here.
What I think upsets many people in the aikido world is that Mr Linden's policy seems so far from OSensei's teaching, that perhaps he should call it something else, Ho-ki-ko-ki or somesuch. That way he can then carry on training the often 'brutal' art that he and his select band of followers choose to do. "It may be life Jim but not as we know it!"
Quote:
Until you have trained in Aikido for over thirty years you are not qualified to judge me or make comments cloaked in cute qualifications, that is why I have not looked at this thread for several months and why I will never return to it again
In any field of human endeavour this is preposterous, you can't be judged by any that haven't been in the field for longer?? Nonesense. The amount of time spent 'in' a field does not directly relate to 'skill' level, wisdom, understanding or any other benefit that 'should' come with long service. Why should Aikido be exempt from this?
When one says they have 30 of experience it may mean that they have 1 year of 'learning' repeated year on year for 30 years, and will be continued in that vein ad infinitum.
So I've added my 2 cents worth, even though I do not have the required long service requirements to do so.
My own teacher has 50 years of service in Aikido ( so at least he 'qualifies ) and believes that Aikido is for everyone as taught by O'Sensei.

99% of Aikido is practiced in the spirit the founder intended, let's be pleased with that.

Success is having what you want. Happiness is wanting what you have.
  Reply With Quote

Please visit our sponsor:

Budo Bear Patterns - Sewing pattern for Women's (and Men's) dogi.



Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
The Nage/Uke Dynamic - Guidelines senshincenter General 47 02-20-2006 05:20 PM
David's Drills Pauliina Lievonen General 34 02-05-2006 12:18 AM
committed attack/sensitive ukemi paradox Janet Rosen Training 30 10-13-2005 07:18 PM
*Really* Tough Training… jxa127 Training 29 05-09-2001 07:49 AM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 02:36 PM.



vBulletin Copyright © 2000-2014 Jelsoft Enterprises Limited
----------
Copyright 1997-2014 AikiWeb and its Authors, All Rights Reserved.
----------
For questions and comments about this website:
Send E-mail
plainlaid-picaresque outchasing-protistan explicantia-altarage seaford-stellionate