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Old 12-11-2003, 11:03 PM   #51
cindy perkins
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For a long time, no one scientific seemed to be willing to tolerate the idea that the body might be radiating any kind of electro-magnetic energy, or any energy other than heat. Kirilian (sp?) photography demonstrated that it was there and recordable. Perhaps we are just waiting for the right technology to come along so we can detect and measure the flow of Ki.

That said, I would love to see some master use ki-force alone to hold a person down or throw them, in a lab with controlled conditions, electronic meters reading different forms of energy, neutral observers, etc. Isn't it the Amazing Randi who will pay a million bucks for a real demonstration of anything paranormal? Even if the master doesn't want the money, I'm sure some dojos could use new equipment! And I personally would be pleased that another anomaly had been introduced into the scientists' puzzlebox.
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Old 12-12-2003, 01:15 PM   #52
afwen
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Of course ki exists. How else could you possibly explain the techniques performed at the end of this clip? (Beyond the Physical)

Life is like a long journey with a heavy load. --Tokugawa Ieyasu
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Old 12-12-2003, 06:56 PM   #53
kironin
 
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Confused

Quote:
Alvin Wen (afwen) wrote:
Of course ki exists. How else could you possibly explain the techniques performed at the end of this clip? (Beyond the Physical)
easy

the key... here is in the last few words of the video clip:

"skillfully works with human psychology"

Craig
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Old 12-12-2003, 07:05 PM   #54
afwen
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Quote:
Craig Hocker (kironin) wrote:
easy

...

"skillfully works with human psychology"
For the record, Craig said that, not me.

Just in case there was any confusion.

Life is like a long journey with a heavy load. --Tokugawa Ieyasu
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Old 12-12-2003, 07:51 PM   #55
kironin
 
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Quote:
Cindy Perkins (cindy perkins) wrote:
For a long time, no one scientific seemed to be willing to tolerate the idea that the body might be radiating any kind of electro-magnetic energy, or any energy other than heat. Kirilian (sp?) photography demonstrated that it was there and recordable.
huh?

My understanding is that the professional scientific community is in pretty strong aggreement that Kirilian photography is not proof of anything except perhaps that sometimes bad science can generate pretty pictures.
http://www.pupman.com/listarchives/1.../msg00293.html

if you want to see serious study of animals radiating electromagnetic fields check this out.
http://www.fiu.edu/~stoddard/efish/field_movies.html

or

see how scientists study the very weak electromagnetic fields that humans do generate http://neuroimage.usc.edu/megproject.html#MEG

interesting history indicating just long scientists have been interested in the idea of human bodies generating electromagnetic fields. http://www.ecglibrary.com/ecghist.html

given this, I am not sure what the point of your second paragraph is. This is not the Star Trek universe where every civilization seems able to discover their own unique kind of energy.

Craig

Last edited by kironin : 12-12-2003 at 08:05 PM.
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Old 12-12-2003, 07:59 PM   #56
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Quote:
Alvin Wen (afwen) wrote:
For the record, Craig said that, not me.

Just in case there was any confusion.


for the record that's what the narrator of the video clip said (who I believe is Vladimir's wife).

and by the way Systema is a lot of fun and I highly recommend it for any Aikido student interested in cross-training in another martial art.

Craig
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Old 12-12-2003, 08:31 PM   #57
afwen
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Quote:
Craig Hocker (kironin) wrote:
and by the way Systema is a lot of fun and I highly recommend it for any Aikido student interested in cross-training in another martial art.
One of the most interesting things to me about Systema is that practitioners move completely unlike "good" ukes are supposed to move. It is very, very difficult to lock up a Systema practitioner, because they refuse to privde resistance to any of your movements.

Life is like a long journey with a heavy load. --Tokugawa Ieyasu
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Old 12-12-2003, 08:52 PM   #58
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Quote:
Alvin Wen (afwen) wrote:
One of the most interesting things to me about Systema is that practitioners move completely unlike "good" ukes are supposed to move. It is very, very difficult to lock up a Systema practitioner, because they refuse to privde resistance to any of your movements.
I am not sure what you mean by "good" uke because to me being a good uke in aikido can mean doing vastly different things in different contexts. Being a good uke is more of a contiuum. Refusing to provide resistance isn't the same thing as succeeding in NOT providing resistance and to my way of thinking just means nage has to up their game so to speak. One can do aikido so that one promotes the development of tension in the uke's body even if uke is trying to avoid it. In that regard I find Systema practice quite interesting in reflecting back on my aikido practice.

and actually this issue is not at all new for aikido. I have seen an old video of a aikido black belt attempting to apply any lock to Cheng Mang Ching's arm in New York City in the mid-1960's. He effortlessly slithered out of everything they did.

best regards,
Craig

Last edited by kironin : 12-12-2003 at 09:02 PM.
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Old 12-12-2003, 09:02 PM   #59
afwen
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Quote:
Craig Hocker (kironin) wrote:
I am not sure what you mean by "good" uke because to me being a good uke in aikido can mean doing vastly different things in different contexts.
Perhaps I haven't practiced at the right places, but everywhere I've been, when you're doing shomenuchi and they're doing ikkyo, you're "supposed to" provide a reasonable connection from your center to your arm. Floppy arms are definitely frowned upon. Whereas the last time I tried to do ikkyo to a Systema practitioner, he actively tried to prevent me from reaching his center through his arm.

How do you do shomenuchi where you practice?

Life is like a long journey with a heavy load. --Tokugawa Ieyasu
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Old 12-12-2003, 10:13 PM   #60
afwen
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Quote:
Craig Hocker (kironin) wrote:
and actually this issue is not at all new for aikido. I have seen an old video of a aikido black belt attempting to apply any lock to Cheng Mang Ching's arm in New York City in the mid-1960's. He effortlessly slithered out of everything they did.
Did I say it was new? I don't think I said it was new. Anyway, while it's not new for aikido, it's certainly new for me. And cool.

Life is like a long journey with a heavy load. --Tokugawa Ieyasu
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