Welcome to AikiWeb Aikido Information
AikiWeb: The Source for Aikido Information
AikiWeb's principal purpose is to serve the Internet community as a repository and dissemination point for aikido information.

Sections
home
aikido articles
columns

Discussions
forums
aikiblogs

Databases
dojo search
seminars
image gallery
supplies
links directory

Reviews
book reviews
video reviews
dvd reviews
equip. reviews

News
submit
archive

Miscellaneous
newsletter
rss feeds
polls
about

Follow us on



Home > AikiWeb Aikido Forums
Go Back   AikiWeb Aikido Forums > Spiritual

Hello and thank you for visiting AikiWeb, the world's most active online Aikido community! This site is home to over 22,000 aikido practitioners from around the world and covers a wide range of aikido topics including techniques, philosophy, history, humor, beginner issues, the marketplace, and more.

If you wish to join in the discussions or use the other advanced features available, you will need to register first. Registration is absolutely free and takes only a few minutes to complete so sign up today!

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 10-15-2003, 08:14 AM   #1
Paula Lydon
Dojo: Aikido Shugenkai
Location: Colorado
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 427
Offline
Ki Symbol the power/responsibility equation

~~Hi All!

As your skill level (power) increases as you train over the years, are you consciously aware of an inner increase of resposibility to others? Not just on the dojo level, but on a spiritual/universal level?

I feel this mostly toward uke, the person who has agreed--on whatever level, in whatever venue--to join with me in this moment. It began on the mat but now I see everyone I come into contact with during the day as uke, or I am theirs. A mutuality. To be sensitive to, blend with, be softly strong when needed, to care for.

And you?

~~Paula~~
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-15-2003, 08:35 AM   #2
Qatana
 
Qatana's Avatar
Dojo: Aikido of Petaluma, Petaluma,CA
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 834
Offline
Hopefully this is where i'm going...

Q
http://www.aikidopetaluma.com/
www.knot-working.com

"It is not wise to be incautious when confronting a little smiling bald man"'- Rule #1
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-15-2003, 08:51 AM   #3
John Boswell
 
John Boswell's Avatar
Dojo: Aikido of Midland
Location: Midland, Texas
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 597
United_States
Offline
I think its important to make yourself aware whether you are or not. I've been in Aikido for over a year, and using my center is becoming more and more easy. Sometimes I'll forget how easy and will practically toss someone to the other side of the room without trying... so, ya. I do make an effort to concentrate on what I'm doing so as not to trash the other individual.

  Reply With Quote
Old 10-15-2003, 10:28 AM   #4
happysod
Dojo: Kiburn, London, UK
Location: London
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 899
United Kingdom
Offline
in dojo - yep, more skill = more responsibility.

outside dojo - nope. I fail to see how you're relating your increase in aikido skills to the world outside the artificial environment of the dojo (other than re a potential combat situation).

On the other hand, if you mean your increasing skill at aikido and interest in it's philosophy has made you more confident/aware etc. and so you're approaching things differently - different story. However, I'd put this as a beneficial side-effect of aikido for *you* rather than aikido itself (see loads of threads on "this high-level shihan's a complete b******d" for expansion of my point of view)

John, not decrying your ability, but I'd be immensely impressed if a year has given you sufficient skill to enjoy that sort of confidence. I've seen a few many-year ma people come a cropper with this attitude.
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-15-2003, 10:47 AM   #5
ian
 
ian's Avatar
Dojo: University of Ulster, Coleriane
Location: Northern Ireland
Join Date: Oct 2000
Posts: 1,654
Offline
In the dojo - no.

I always had the same respect for my partner. If anything I'm a tiny bit more aggressive as an uke (but not 'resistant') to ensure that nage can get a 'feel' of how frightening attacks can be.

Outide dojo - yes.

Not sure whether this is a philosophical development through aikido (I consider that people should get the opportunity to regret their violent adolescence.) Also I think right and wrong are societal constructs (or at least relative) and therefore I don't feel the anger or aggression towards people outside that comes with condemnation; even those who have been aggressive towards me. (well not to any extent anyway - I still get pi**ed off with people sometimes).

I'm not sure PRACTICALLY whether this is true. I'm far more aware of how to kill or disable someone, though I don't practise this so hopefully my response would be very aiki - but it's been a while since I've had a confrontation, and I don't know what my subconcious would tell me to do.

I believe that the philosophical aspect does have a real self-defence benefit - from not seeing agressive situations as purely confrontational and instead being able to find a joint solution or at least an understanding, I think I've avoided many fights (though I'd say some people are out to get you regardless).

Ian

---understanding aikido is understanding the training method---
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-15-2003, 01:48 PM   #6
John Boswell
 
John Boswell's Avatar
Dojo: Aikido of Midland
Location: Midland, Texas
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 597
United_States
Offline
Ian Hurst,



I wasn't trying to brag at all. Seriously.

The other night I was helping someone with a basic technique (Katatekosatori Kotegaeshi - Cross-hand wrist grab/ "Wrist-turning" throw, pin)

but during his tenkan/tenkai... he wasn't keeping his hand in front of his center. He was leaving his hand behind him and muscling the whole thing.

So... we stopped and I backed him up to just practicing the Tenkan first, then Tenkai. At the start of this, I had him grasp my wrist (same side) and I moved tenkan around to his side. Next, I pivoted tenkai... and by keeping my hand just so and using my center... it was all he could do to not fall down or hit the wall that I was now facing.

I'm not bragging about my ability... but more the ability of Aikido.

  Reply With Quote
Old 10-15-2003, 09:39 PM   #7
PhilJ
 
PhilJ's Avatar
Dojo: Aikido Bukou
Join Date: Sep 2002
Posts: 240
Offline
I've always taken aikido and used it to train my character and soul as well as my body and actions.

I do feel an increased responsibility both in and out of class, because I believe "I have certain training, so I should know better".

Case in point: I was rear-ended by a man in a right-turn-only lane last winter. I started to go, then stopped because I saw a car zipping down my direction. He wasn't paying attention and hit me.

Yes, the law said it was 100% his fault. Secretly, though, I believe it was mostly mine, because I have the training where I could have possibly fully controlled that situation.

I don't hold others in dojos to that standard, but I know better about myself: I could have easily prevented that accident from happening. No lost sleep, but a good lesson in controlling a situation.

*Phil

Phillip Johnson
Enso Aikido Dojo, Burnsville, MN
An Aikido Bukou Dojo
http://www.aikidobukou.com
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-16-2003, 03:40 AM   #8
JJF
 
JJF's Avatar
Dojo: Vestfyn Aikikai Denmark
Location: Vissenbjerg
Join Date: Jul 2000
Posts: 780
Denmark
Offline
I have the impression that I lately have become more and more aware of my own shortcommings. I really want to take good care of other people both in and out of the dojo. Preventing conflict. It's just so damn hard. However maybe - with time and practice - I will get better at it. At least I am able to see some of the situations where i fail. With time that might enable me to be do a preemptive defusing of potential conflicts instead of just realising they have allready appeared...

- Jørgen Jakob Friis

Inspiration - Aspiration - Perspiration
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-16-2003, 03:45 AM   #9
happysod
Dojo: Kiburn, London, UK
Location: London
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 899
United Kingdom
Offline
John, I actually wasn't thinking that you were bragging, just worried about overconfidence leading you to be too pleasant when you needed be more forthright. Apologies for the inadvertent insult.

Ian, interested by your "no" response to the in the dojo part, going off some of your posts I can't believe you didn't go through a meathead phase in the dojo (later tempered by calm sensei-style restraint of course )
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-16-2003, 07:56 AM   #10
Paula Lydon
Dojo: Aikido Shugenkai
Location: Colorado
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 427
Offline
~~I agree, Jorgen; there's a growing awareness where you can almost sense precognitivly what's about to occur, instead of simply tumbling along in the wake like everyone else. And in that moment is the opportunity for choice. I think it's this understanding that I have freedom of choice in the moment that increases my sense of responsibility to others, who may not feel free of programmed responses.

~~Still working with all of this, of course

~~Paula~~
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-16-2003, 09:12 AM   #11
jxa127
Dojo: Itten Dojo -- Mechanicsburg, PA
Location: Harrisburg, PA
Join Date: Jul 2000
Posts: 420
Offline
Re: the power/responsibility equation

Quote:
Paula Lydon wrote:
As your skill level (power) increases as you train over the years, are you consciously aware of an inner increase of resposibility to others? Not just on the dojo level, but on a spiritual/universal level?
Hi Paula,

For me, things happened in the other direction in that I sought out a martial art that seemed to match my personal philosophy/moral code. Since then, of course, aikido has altered my perceptions and become a far more integral part of my life than I expected.

I like your idea of approaching people as though they are your uke and/or you are theirs.

Regards,

-Drew

----
-Drew Ames
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-16-2003, 10:37 AM   #12
aikidoc
Dojo: Aikido of Midland
Location: Midland Texas
Join Date: Dec 2000
Posts: 1,652
United_States
Offline
Ahhh. Good old zanshin. This is often touted as awarenss of the outside environment but internal awareness and awareness of the dynamics of the situation are also extremely important. I think John was trying to make the point that as his use of center improves his awareness of the power he can generate takes on a new level. John is a very tall and strongly built guy. That combination requires some sensitivity to the power he can generate with us shorter stature aikidoka-at least to keep us out of the woodwork.
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-18-2003, 03:45 AM   #13
Kevin Leavitt
 
Kevin Leavitt's Avatar
Dojo: Aikido of Northern Virginia
Location: Stuttgart, Baden Wurttemberg
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 4,376
Germany
Offline
I think anything inside the dojo or outside that increases your awareness on the interdependence of you to others is a good thing.

Aikido, while by some is labeled "artificial" is a good tool for excercising these principles. I don't really see how it could not carry over into other aspects of your life, even if in a small way.

For me, it is very difficult to constantly stay "within the zone" and practice what I preach. To be quite honest sometimes it is even more difficult to do this in the dojo.

The dojo environment can serve as a amplifier. It can either bring out the good, or the bad in people. I think we have all had to face an uke that we just didn't like for one reason or another and have had ill feelings toward that person.

No matter how hard you try, you just can't supress your ego to deal with him/her, so we avoid them, or just practice "going through the motions".

I think too often we only see, or want to see the good side of ourselves and the positive aspects that occur in the dojo. There are negative ones to...and those are the ones that I believe we should face and try and master too!

  Reply With Quote
Old 10-18-2003, 07:27 AM   #14
Col.Clink
Dojo: Waiuku Ki Society
Location: New Zealand
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 68
Offline
Quote:
Kevin Leavitt wrote:
I think too often we only see, or want to see the good side of ourselves and the positive aspects that occur in the dojo. There are negative ones to...and those are the ones that I believe we should face and try and master too!
Totally agree Kevin!

Paula:

I've found the more I study Aikido, physically and philosophically, inside & out of the dojo, I definately have become more responsible in everything I do. Then I make a stuff up (dojo or not), and realise I haven't actually come very far at all,

but it's a work in progress!

Cheers

Rob

"Excess leads to the path of Wisdom"
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-18-2003, 08:12 AM   #15
Paula Lydon
Dojo: Aikido Shugenkai
Location: Colorado
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 427
Offline
~~Totally a work in progress, and it's amazing how often I fall (not very graceful ukemi, either!). Reminds me to use the equation in regards myself, as well

~~Paula~~
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-31-2003, 05:48 PM   #16
Anders Bjonback
Dojo: Boulder Aikikai
Location: Boulder, CO
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 129
Offline
Re: the power/responsibility equation

Quote:
Paula Lydon wrote:
~~Hi All!

As your skill level (power) increases as you train over the years, are you consciously aware of an inner increase of resposibility to others? Not just on the dojo level, but on a spiritual/universal level?

I feel this mostly toward uke, the person who has agreed--on whatever level, in whatever venue--to join with me in this moment. It began on the mat but now I see everyone I come into contact with during the day as uke, or I am theirs. A mutuality. To be sensitive to, blend with, be softly strong when needed, to care for.

And you?
I sure hope my training leads me in that direction. While I know that aikido's changing my life and my outlook on things, I don't really know in what way. It seems to be more implicit than explicit.

Training in Brazilian Jui Jitsu, I felt like it was making me into a worse person. I was training myself to give into my agressive impulses rather than to be responsible with or re-channel them. It really affected me in a negative way.

Now that I've given up that martial art, and am training in aikido, I don't know how aikido's affecting me. It's different from meditation and loving-kindness practice, but it's also different from the other martial practices I have done. In any case, the short answer is, I don't know, but I hope my training leads me in the direction you're describing.

"For peace and happiness are presences, not objects we can grasp and hold onto."
--Lilian Smith
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-02-2003, 09:45 AM   #17
Kensho Furuya
Dojo: Aikido Center of Los Angeles
Location: Los Angeles
Join Date: Apr 2002
Posts: 341
Offline
I hear many yonger generation students answering here and I think "changes" implicit or explicit are noticable right from the very beginning when you enter into Aikido training. This is always a good, positive sign. As you get on in years and get into the higher Dan levels, become a teacher, develop an organization, numbers of students, branches, etc., you also acquire "political" power as well as skill and reputation, etc. I think it is at this point that your original question becomes extremely important not only to the person's own welfare and practice but for all those around him and for those he is responsible for as his students. I would be very interested to hear from other veterans or high ranking instructors regarding this. Or, at the very least, give this more serious thought. . . . .
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-02-2003, 11:41 AM   #18
Paula Lydon
Dojo: Aikido Shugenkai
Location: Colorado
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 427
Offline
~~Thank you Kensho-san, and all other voices of experience who have shared their thoughts here. Perhaps this thread would be a good dual line of thought added to the Voices of Experience site. Some things you can only see across the distance of an advanced life. Like a junior student and an advanced, the burst of Spring or the long Autumn; both lovely but Autumn is more quiet, subdued. I'll run it by Jun

~~Paula~~
  Reply With Quote

Please visit our sponsor:

Aikido DVDs and Video Downloads - by George Ledyard Sensei & other great teachers from AikidoDVDS.Com



Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 07:21 PM.



vBulletin Copyright © 2000-2014 Jelsoft Enterprises Limited
----------
Copyright 1997-2014 AikiWeb and its Authors, All Rights Reserved.
----------
For questions and comments about this website:
Send E-mail
plainlaid-picaresque outchasing-protistan explicantia-altarage seaford-stellionate