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Old 10-18-2003, 09:40 AM   #1
Paula Lydon
Dojo: Aikido Shugenkai
Location: Colorado
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 427
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BMS unity, naturally

~~I find it hunorous when folks go on about looking for or working on body/mind/spirit unity. I believe it's always there, naturally, and THAT'S! why we have such troubles. The mind remembers and knows so much and will run willynilly if left unchecked, to muck about in as many realities as it can. The body has its own memories, tensing, flinching or fighting when told to 'just relax'. And the spirit, well you know yourself if you listen, really listen.

~~These three are always working together, each inhancing or inhibiting the others. Always interdependant, comingled, interactive. Your mind cripples your body with a thought; your spirit confuses your mind with a fear; your body creates a flu because that big test is coming up and you don't feel prepared...

~~I think it's more a matter of working on cleaning up your personal crap so that these three can work ~smoothly~ together, because they're certainly unified in their unhealthy, klunky, funky, frightened or confused states.

~~Just me spouting off on a Saturday morning! Take care All

~~Paula~~
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Old 10-18-2003, 12:26 PM   #2
Tim Griffiths
Dojo: Nes Ziona Aikikai
Location: Suzhou, China
Join Date: Aug 2001
Posts: 188
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Well, you can tie three rabid weasels together, but that doesn't unify them.

If you can get them to go in the same direction together, now *that's* unifying them, and that's what we want in aikido (metaphorically of course - having foaming weasels running all over the mat isn't such a good idea).

Tim

Last edited by Tim Griffiths : 10-18-2003 at 12:40 PM.

If one makes a distinction between the dojo and the battlefield, or being in your bedroom or in public, then when the time comes there will be no opportunity to make amends. (Hagakure)
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Old 10-19-2003, 12:31 PM   #3
tedehara
 
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Dojo: Evanston Ki-Aikido
Location: Evanston IL
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Re: BMS unity, naturally

Quote:
Koichi Tohei wrote:
Mind and body are originally one.
When K. Tohei mentions mind and body coordination, he doesn't mean when you were a baby, they were unified. He means they are one right now! The natural state of a person is to have mind and body unified.

However we don't usually have full mind/body coordination because we're influenced by many different things. We need to train correctly to achieve this natural state.

It may seem humourous that you need to work hard to achieve this "natural state", but it's also important work.


It is not practice that makes perfect, it is correct practice that makes perfect.
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Old 10-19-2003, 02:20 PM   #4
Kevin Wilbanks
Location: Seattle/Southern Wisconsin
Join Date: Jul 2002
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Mind, body, spirit, etc... are themselves made-up analytical distinctions, and pretty crude ones at that. Setting out to unify them or to try to work anything real out based on them is either backwards or just compounding another layer of made-up analytical stuff on top. If you're looking for some kind of existential clarity, I'd say you're better off throwing the whole edifice and all its attendant assumptions away. Words, logic, concepts, etc... is a limited system with limited uses - like mathematics. Unless there are concrete, specific premises, and a tangible goal to work toward, word games are primarily good only for entertainment purposes.

Last edited by Kevin Wilbanks : 10-19-2003 at 02:26 PM.
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Old 10-19-2003, 05:42 PM   #5
Suzanne Cooper
Dojo: Retsushinkan Dojo/Alabama
Join Date: Sep 2003
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Paula and Tim are right.

Three weasles tied together are united. Three weasles tied together and going the same direction are unified.

No mumbo-jumbo here. Significant physical events (like injury or health changes) will change a person's soul or spirit--maybe better in building character, maybe worse in triggering depression. Deeply affective spiritual experiences will change how a person feels physically--hearing the voice of someone you haven't seen in a long time can thrill you and make your very heart beat with great thumps.

Seems to me that aikido training will gradually teach your soul to relax in the face of threat as it teaches your body to react with compassion to attack.

I got guts, yes I do. I do aikido--do YOU?
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Old 10-20-2003, 01:16 PM   #6
Pretoriano
 
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Dojo: Aikido Santa Fe
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The mind is probably the most problematic of the three, always comparing, critizing,doubting, when not properly trained it avoids to reach empty clean states.

Only been free of duality, common human hates, obsesive states, egotistical passions one goes through muga, where the spirit contains nothing, achieved this you should percieve the enemy as a part of oneself and not as a separate entity as Master Ueshiba showed it.

Pretoriano
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Old 10-20-2003, 03:53 PM   #7
ikkainogakusei
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Re: BMS unity, naturally

Quote:
Paula Lydon wrote:
~~I find it hunorous when folks go on about looking for or working on body/mind/spirit unity. I believe it's always there, naturally, and THAT'S! why we have such troubles. The mind remembers and knows so much and will run willynilly if left unchecked, to muck about in as many realities as it can. The body has its own memories, tensing, flinching or fighting when told to 'just relax'. And the spirit, well you know yourself if you listen, really listen.
I can't attest to 'spirit' as I have only beliefs and not empirical knowledge of such. As for body/mind or body/brain connections I think it should be considered that there can be a disconnection (not physical) or divestment due to tragedy, trauma, or other psychological influence. I have heard aikidoka say of another "s/he is not in his/her body." when describing a 'physical personality' as it were. Kinesiologists refer to this as Somatic Amnesia. Children are least affescted by this condition as many are compelled to test their physical limits through play. Though more and more children no longer take part in such activity and are more quickly reaching a state of poor health.

I do think it is a mistake to think that the body and mind are separate. Our personality, our psychology, or our 'baggage' oft manifests itself in our body -=because=- there is no disconnect or firewall for such. However there are people who seem to 'quit' their bodies. For whatever reason they cannot see the difference between tenkan and irimi footwork, they do not know the difference between turning in and turning out. I see aikido as a way to reconnect, but not necessarily the easy way because it is dynamic, and involves another person.

There is a Biomechanist named Dr. Robert Bennet who has been a Tai Chi practicioner for years and has written on Somatic Amnesia. He insists that since a person is only dealing with their body in Tai Chi, it is the most effective way to regain Somatic connection. I don't agree, but I am biased.

As for bodies 'memories', I can't say that I thoroughly agree. Muscle memory is a misnomer. It is NMP or neuro-motor programming which lies in the brain that causes the actions which are identified as 'muscle memory'. As is the tensing or divesting which happens in response to stimuli also stored in the brain. Though if one were to look at the first agreement, that the body and brain are one, clearly these are within the body, but in the body's region where the brain lies.

As for listening to one's self, I know that there are moments in which the spirit of my intent is true, and when it is reactionary or baggage-based. I think I can't speak with authority on this, but only on myself. In terms of 'watching to doer', sometimes the voice we are listening to is not the healthiest of influences. Consciousness is certainly required, but then what state is truly conscious, and which is manipulative?
Quote:
Paula Lydon wrote:
~~I think it's more a matter of working on cleaning up your personal crap so that these three can work ~smoothly~ together, because they're certainly unified in their unhealthy, klunky, funky, frightened or confused states.
Amen

"To educate a man in mind, and not in morals, is to educate a menace to society." ~Theodore Roosevelt
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