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Old 07-30-2003, 10:58 AM   #26
PeterR's Avatar
Dojo: Shodokan Honbu (Osaka)
Location: Himeji, Japan
Join Date: Mar 2001
Posts: 3,319
It's a cloathing item - there is no religious connection.

Shodokan does't wear them for practical considerations and I have yet to hear of a practical reason for wearing them in any other Aikido dojo (Craig makes a point for iaido).

Therefore the reason is fashion - that doesn't mean it needs to get tossed. It also doesn't mean that those that choose to do so are flying in the face of tradition and tossing all that is sacred in Aikido out the window which you seem to suggest. Generally when I go to Aikikai dojos I wear one because that's what they do there - when in Rome and all that.

Chuch the Thesaurus - I'm on vacation and can't handle the big words.

Peter Rehse Shodokan Aikido
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Old 07-30-2003, 12:13 PM   #27
Kevin Wilbanks
Location: Seattle/Southern Wisconsin
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 788
Okay, the analogy to religious rituals was an ANALOGY. In an analogy, some things are the same and some things are different. If done correctly, the underlying logical structure is the same, yet the difference introduced by the analogous example is meant to illustrate the flaw in the logic of the initial argument.

In this case, the purpose of the religious analogy was not to imply that hakamas have religious significance. The purpose was to illustrate that what significance hakamas have to others in their practice of Aikido is not for you to decide - it's a subjective matter. You can look down on people who view the hakama as an important part of observing their Aikido traditions or think it's silly, but you can't decide what it means for them. It's like disagreeing with someone when they tell you their favorite color. It just doesn't work that way.

You just trotted out another irrelevant logical fallacy with the implied dichotomy: 'either wearing a hakama is practical or it is fashion'. I have already explained at length at least one other possible value in them: respect and observance of tradition. Therefore, this is a false dichotomy.

I don't know if you intended insult with that Thesaurus comment, but FYI I haven't cracked one in years. Given the quality of thought exhibited by your posts here, I wouldn't think you would want to open that can of worms.
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Old 07-30-2003, 12:57 PM   #28
PeterR's Avatar
Dojo: Shodokan Honbu (Osaka)
Location: Himeji, Japan
Join Date: Mar 2001
Posts: 3,319

Where did I condem anyone for wearing a hakama. I gave my reasons for not finding it necessary for my Aikido and made it pretty clear that under certain circumstance you will find me in one.

Historically the hakama came into common use as a fashion - maybe someone could enlighten us as to when that was but I don't think it was that long ago. Some fashions persist, some are no more than passing fads. The hakama may or may not pass out of fashion with respect to Aikido - there are several examples within the Aikido world where it already has without (as you've implied) any loss of aesthetic or tradition. Granted you did say "many see".

There was nothing in what I said that implied an either/or relation to practicallity and fashion. Some fashions are more practical than others, some practical wear is very unfashionable.

The quality of my posts - what can I say - I do my best.

Peter Rehse Shodokan Aikido
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Old 08-04-2003, 01:52 PM   #29
Dojo: Daiwa Aikido
Location: Uppsala, Sweden
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 5
Re: What level do you start wearing Hakama?

In my dojo you can wear the hakama as soon as you can buy one.

I think that start wearing the hakama is up to each club. Because almost occidental people think that the hakama is a prize we get because of the technic skills.

The hakama is only a part of the Aikido dress and has nothing to do with the skill of the technics in testing situations.

Last edited by daiwa : 08-04-2003 at 01:54 PM.

Carlos E.
Daiwa Aikido in Uppsala
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Old 08-05-2003, 08:25 AM   #30
Location: Boston
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 39
Re: Re: What level do you start wearing Hakama?

Carlos Enguis (daiwa) wrote:
The hakama is only a part of the Aikido dress and has nothing to do with the skill of the technics in testing situations.
True, Carlos. But, and this is the thing for me, it just looks so damn cool!

Remember: No matter where you go...There you are.
-Buckaroo Banzai
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Old 08-05-2003, 09:05 AM   #31
Dojo: Lunds aikido
Location: Lund, Sweden
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 14
My dojo wear hakkama from 3 kyu. Think that is true for most aikido dojos in Sweden. Part of the reason that we wait that long is to make it easier for the teachers to correct leg posture.

People have said that there is no real advantages with wearing hakkama but I find that untrue (in my case at least). I feel more stable with a hakkama and my falls feels softer. Might just be my imagination but that doesn't make any real differens , if I belive that wearing one makes my aikido better then it probably does
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Old 08-05-2003, 09:11 AM   #32
Dojo: Kiburn, London, UK
Location: London
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 899
United Kingdom
Shodan, and then only if the great bossman insists, otherwise personal choice. Exception to this rule is working with a katana - all grades asked to use it for this one.

Hakama - actually a construct of two words

Hak - shortened form of Hack: english slang meaning to foul or deliberately entangle

amam: early summarian word meaning either warrior in womens clothing, bandy legged fool or fashion fiend
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Old 08-05-2003, 04:58 PM   #33
Mike Higgins
Dojo: Itai doshin dojo ,Bridgwater,Somerset,U.K
Location: Somerset,England,UK
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 7
Just to add my moneys worth on this topic, we are invited to wear hakama shortly after passing our 1st grading (10th kyu),this is not a requirement and we are not obliged to wear them,most of us do,some wait a while and one or two dont bother at all.We have a nidan guy who trains with us whos aikido background is from the tomiki school,he usually wears them but not all the time,sadly we havn't seen him for 6 weeks as he fell foul of the often underated "hakamanage" and tore his little toe right out of the joint it used to be attatched to!!! We hope to see him back soon :-)

Fear & anger lead to the dark side
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