Welcome to AikiWeb Aikido Information
AikiWeb: The Source for Aikido Information
AikiWeb's principal purpose is to serve the Internet community as a repository and dissemination point for aikido information.

Sections
home
aikido articles
columns

Discussions
forums
aikiblogs

Databases
dojo search
seminars
image gallery
supplies
links directory

Reviews
book reviews
video reviews
dvd reviews
equip. reviews

News
submit
archive

Miscellaneous
newsletter
rss feeds
polls
about

Follow us on



Home > AikiWeb Aikido Forums
Go Back   AikiWeb Aikido Forums > General

Hello and thank you for visiting AikiWeb, the world's most active online Aikido community! This site is home to over 22,000 aikido practitioners from around the world and covers a wide range of aikido topics including techniques, philosophy, history, humor, beginner issues, the marketplace, and more.

If you wish to join in the discussions or use the other advanced features available, you will need to register first. Registration is absolutely free and takes only a few minutes to complete so sign up today!

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 07-15-2003, 09:43 AM   #1
C. Emerson
Dojo: Emerson's Martial Arts
Location: Denver, Co
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 97
Offline
Being centered w/ Ki flowing during techniques

For the Aikido experts out there, can you explain what O'sensei ment when he was talked about being centered with Ki flowing while doing techniques. I believe he was in a paticular frame of mind also? No anger or expectation of an outcome.

And do you practice those concepts.

-Chad
  Reply With Quote
Old 07-15-2003, 03:55 PM   #2
antdigoh
Location: Phils.
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 15
Offline
you are somewhat in a meditative trance, being aware of your surroundings, relaxed and extending your five senses. Your movement should colaborate/coordinate with your breathing so as to let the ki flowing. Though physically aware/presence your're mind is somewhat tune-in a different frequency. The so called subconscious is working here or calling the shots it's more than instinct if practice regularly.

anton
  Reply With Quote
Old 07-15-2003, 08:11 PM   #3
Lee Swerdloff
Dojo: FL aikikai
Location: Fort lauderdale , Fl
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 4
Offline
This is somthing I've been thinking about recently. I believe that he means to focus your mind on your center - your hara. Then it is easier to remain relaxed and alert, and extend ki. Read Koichi Tohei , Ki in Daily life

I have seen everything that has been done here under the sun; it is all futility and a chasing of the wind. Ecclesiastes 1:14
  Reply With Quote
Old 07-16-2003, 03:48 PM   #4
Alfonso
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 346
Offline
how about balanced and relaxed while doing technique?

Alfonso Adriasola
  Reply With Quote
Old 07-19-2003, 05:46 PM   #5
DaveForis
Dojo: UW-L Aikido Club
Location: La Crosse, WI
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 38
Offline
I'm not a master, but here's my perspective...

Hmm. I personally think the "meditative state" is right on with your conscious mind relaxed and your bodymind/subconscious doing the movement. I think balanced and relaxed is another big one.

Chi Kung practitioners (the people who study and learn to generate and work with Ki--This is a 2500+ year-old practice, by the way) universally state that relaxation is key as tension in the muscles inhibits Ki flow. A relaxed mind is important also because once there's mental "tension" like negative emotional states (anger) or having your thoughts tightly focused on something (like thinking about the outcome or focusing your attention on a specific body part) that focuses energy wherever the thought is focused. Needless to say, when your mind, like your body, is rigid, there ain't no way ya can flow.

If ya don't/can't believe in Ki as energy (which is where I've come from in my studies) then you can look at it from a psychological angle and start thinking about how mental states affect your technique, and how your body language affects your partner.

As for practicing it... Isn't that what we're doing when we're practicing technique? Physically we try to relax into the technique, and when we practice enough, we don't feel the need to think about how to DO the technique after a while, and if we're happy, relaxed and confident in ourselves because we're training with trusted friends... There ya go, though meditation, I'm sure, plays a really big part too, if only for training your mind and emotional states.

Behind every flaw in technique is a flaw in the mind or spirit
  Reply With Quote
Old 07-20-2003, 11:29 AM   #6
tedehara
 
tedehara's Avatar
Dojo: Evanston Ki-Aikido
Location: Evanston IL
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 826
Offline
Re: Being centered w/ Ki flowing during techniques

Quote:
Chad Emerson (C. Emerson) wrote:
For the Aikido experts out there, can you explain what O'sensei ment when he was talked about being centered with Ki flowing while doing techniques. I believe he was in a paticular frame of mind also? No anger or expectation of an outcome.

And do you practice those concepts.

-Chad
Why don't you walk over to Denver Ki-Aikido at 2129-B S. Sheridan Blvd., Denver, in the East-West Karate dojo, near the southwest corner of Sheridan and Evans; turn in past Rosemary's Cafe and ask them.

Or is this answer too simple?


It is not practice that makes perfect, it is correct practice that makes perfect.
About Ki
About You
  Reply With Quote
Old 07-21-2003, 12:50 AM   #7
C. Emerson
Dojo: Emerson's Martial Arts
Location: Denver, Co
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 97
Offline
Then I guess there would be no need for a message board Ted. Thanks for taking the time to reply.

-Chad
  Reply With Quote
Old 07-21-2003, 01:47 AM   #8
bob_stra
Location: Australia
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 641
Australia
Offline
Chad

FYI, Dr Robert Nideffer wrote a book on just this very topic, from a western scientific point of view. The book is called "Athlete's Guide to Mental Training" and has generalized (as well as aikido specfic) sections.

Here's an online collection of some of his other work -

http://www.enhanced-performance.com/nideffer/articles/articles.html
  Reply With Quote
Old 07-21-2003, 09:55 AM   #9
C. Emerson
Dojo: Emerson's Martial Arts
Location: Denver, Co
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 97
Offline
I am interested in comparing the differences from Hapkido and Aikido while executing the techniques.

Hapkido uses live hand / ki finger while executing techniques. I was just wondering if Aikido had a similar philosophy on direction of Ki.

-Chad
  Reply With Quote
Old 07-21-2003, 10:38 AM   #10
Bronson
 
Bronson's Avatar
Dojo: Seiwa Dojo and Southside Dojo
Location: Battle Creek & Kalamazoo, MI
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 1,677
Offline
Quote:
Hapkido uses live hand / ki finger while executing techniques. I was just wondering if Aikido had a similar philosophy on direction of Ki.
Hmmm, don't know. Could you explain "live hand/ki finger" a little?

Thanks,

Bronson

"A pacifist is not really a pacifist if he is unable to make a choice between violence and non-violence. A true pacifist is able to kill or maim in the blink of an eye, but at the moment of impending destruction of the enemy he chooses non-violence."
  Reply With Quote
Old 07-21-2003, 09:35 PM   #11
C. Emerson
Dojo: Emerson's Martial Arts
Location: Denver, Co
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 97
Offline
In Hapkido it is traditional to point the index finger / directing ki, when you are executing a joint lock.

-Chad
  Reply With Quote
Old 07-21-2003, 11:05 PM   #12
Bronson
 
Bronson's Avatar
Dojo: Seiwa Dojo and Southside Dojo
Location: Battle Creek & Kalamazoo, MI
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 1,677
Offline
Quote:
In Hapkido it is traditional to point the index finger / directing ki, when you are executing a joint lock.
That's what I thought but I wanted to double check with you before saying anything about it.

In our dojo we will especially have newer people do this so they can see as well as feel the direction they should be focusing. We'll often tell people to point (and look) where they're going. After someone is past the newbie stage it's more about keeping that feeling of following the fingers without actually having to point all the time...unless of course you want to then it's perfectly ok

Bronson

"A pacifist is not really a pacifist if he is unable to make a choice between violence and non-violence. A true pacifist is able to kill or maim in the blink of an eye, but at the moment of impending destruction of the enemy he chooses non-violence."
  Reply With Quote
Old 07-21-2003, 11:26 PM   #13
PhilJ
 
PhilJ's Avatar
Dojo: Aikido Bukou
Join Date: Sep 2002
Posts: 240
Offline
I went to a Toyama Ryu (sword work) seminar a while back. When I grabbed my bokken, with my fingers pointing out, the very nice and jovial instructor smiled at me and asked, "Do you practice aikido by any chance?"

I had stopped with the fingers myself, but hey, old habits.

*Phil

Phillip Johnson
Enso Aikido Dojo, Burnsville, MN
An Aikido Bukou Dojo
http://www.aikidobukou.com
  Reply With Quote
Old 07-22-2003, 10:01 AM   #14
C. Emerson
Dojo: Emerson's Martial Arts
Location: Denver, Co
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 97
Offline
So do some school's in Aikido practise pointing the finger or do all school's?
  Reply With Quote
Old 07-22-2003, 11:24 AM   #15
antdigoh
Location: Phils.
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 15
Offline
actually it's all in the mind or will, pointing your finger without willing is useles. Though energy will flow but the the principle is energy follows thought...

anton
  Reply With Quote
Old 07-23-2003, 06:00 AM   #16
bob_stra
Location: Australia
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 641
Australia
Offline
Quote:
Chad Emerson (C. Emerson) wrote:
So do some school's in Aikido practice pointing the finger or do all school's?
Honestly, there are just too many factors to able to answer that adequately. Though some styles of Aikido seem quite codified, you can't discount dojo to dojo variation within that group.

I get the feeling that it on certain techniques, yeah, we all like to "point the finger." Though this may simply be due to unconscious preference for mechanical efficiency. For example, sankyo.

There's another one from a front grab, where your wrap you hand around their fingers, make a pistol and point your index finger into their wrist whilst moving away. (What the hell is that one called?)

Is it a big hapkido thing? How does it affect your control / transport techniques or do you folks prefer them down and out?

PS: My word processor knows *exactly* how to spell sankyo, irimi nage and aikido right out of the box. God bless PolyEdit ;-)
  Reply With Quote
Old 07-23-2003, 09:21 AM   #17
C. Emerson
Dojo: Emerson's Martial Arts
Location: Denver, Co
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 97
Offline
It is traditional, but to be honest I don't use it much. And the reason being that, I feel it is more of a liability, getting broken, bitten, grabbed on to or getting caught up in the Gi. As we all intergrate different MA into our training, the general feeling is the same everywhere, don't leave anything hanging out, whether thats a leg arm or finger. I have been on the receiving end of someone grabbing my finger and also in grappling I've had someone pry my finger off of my hold, and then really do a number on my finger. It hurts.

-Chad
  Reply With Quote
Old 07-23-2003, 11:41 AM   #18
Lyle Bogin
Dojo: Shin Budo Kai
Location: Manhattan
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 588
United_States
Offline
I sometimes get the feeling the pointed index finger is more quirk than technique. Still, it seems to be a sensible habit considering yonkyo. The pointed finger moves out of the way of the bone just beneath it.

For visualizing and extending ki, the pinky works better for me. But I dunno, it seems people can use their index finger and not tense up, even if I can't.

"The martial arts progress from the complex to the simple."
  Reply With Quote
Old 07-23-2003, 02:48 PM   #19
Eric Joyce
Dojo: Budoshingikan
Location: Gilbert, AZ
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 179
United_States
Offline
Not to offend anyone here (although this will) there is no Ki. I believe its about being centered correctly. I don't think there is this "magical energy" that flows through the techniques. Its a matter of body mechanics: being centered, blending, breathing, relax/suppleness and body positioning.

Eric Joyce
Otake Han Doshin Ryu Jujutsu
  Reply With Quote
Old 07-24-2003, 11:16 PM   #20
Bronson
 
Bronson's Avatar
Dojo: Seiwa Dojo and Southside Dojo
Location: Battle Creek & Kalamazoo, MI
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 1,677
Offline
Quote:
Its a matter of body mechanics: being centered, blending, breathing, relax/suppleness and body positioning.
Agree completely. I would also add focus, intent, and awareness (and I'm sure some others that I can't think of right now ). We use a word in our dojo that encompasses all that stuff....ki

Bronson

"A pacifist is not really a pacifist if he is unable to make a choice between violence and non-violence. A true pacifist is able to kill or maim in the blink of an eye, but at the moment of impending destruction of the enemy he chooses non-violence."
  Reply With Quote

Please visit our sponsor:

AikiWeb Sponsored Links - Place your Aikido link here for only $10!



Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Ki energy defined Guest_779 General 111 08-16-2013 09:50 AM
Extending Ki? wxyzabc General 16 08-14-2005 03:31 AM
Ki Aikido Tatiana Training 45 09-04-2004 04:03 AM
What is ki ? Jean-David Spiritual 8 06-22-2003 12:27 PM
Ki; How do you train your Ki? ronin_10562 General 120 04-30-2001 06:56 AM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 09:27 AM.



vBulletin Copyright © 2000-2016 Jelsoft Enterprises Limited
----------
Copyright 1997-2016 AikiWeb and its Authors, All Rights Reserved.
----------
For questions and comments about this website:
Send E-mail
plainlaid-picaresque outchasing-protistan explicantia-altarage seaford-stellionate