Welcome to AikiWeb Aikido Information
AikiWeb: The Source for Aikido Information
AikiWeb's principal purpose is to serve the Internet community as a repository and dissemination point for aikido information.

aikido articles


dojo search
image gallery
links directory

book reviews
video reviews
dvd reviews
equip. reviews


rss feeds

Follow us on

Home > AikiWeb Aikido Forums
Go Back   AikiWeb Aikido Forums > Training

Hello and thank you for visiting AikiWeb, the world's most active online Aikido community! This site is home to over 22,000 aikido practitioners from around the world and covers a wide range of aikido topics including techniques, philosophy, history, humor, beginner issues, the marketplace, and more.

If you wish to join in the discussions or use the other advanced features available, you will need to register first. Registration is absolutely free and takes only a few minutes to complete so sign up today!

Thread Tools
Old 07-08-2003, 10:37 AM   #1
MikeE's Avatar
Dojo: Midwest Center For Movement & Aikido Bukou Dojos
Location: Hudson, WI
Join Date: Jul 2000
Posts: 407
Dojo Hypnotism

I spend a lot of time visiting and training at different schools. I have noticed from time to time that some schools exhibit a kind of "dojo hypnotism".

This is where the instructors and other students can perform the techniques on each other easily, but, have a hard time with people from other schools.

My questions are:

1) Have you seen this? If so, do you think it is soley an issue with uke not giving proper energy...or is it ineffectiveness by nage.

2) How do you defend against such a thing happening in your school? What mindset do you instill in your students. And how do you as an instructor keep from falling into this trap.

I have been aware of this issue for some years now and think I have it licked in our schools. I would just like to know how others have dealt with this issue.

Mike Ellefson
Midwest Center
For Movement &
Aikido Bukou
  Reply With Quote
Old 07-08-2003, 11:34 AM   #2
Janet Rosen
  AikiWeb Forums Contributing Member
Janet Rosen's Avatar
Location: Left Coast
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 4,342
I think its a natural outgrowth of any dojo, regardless of "style" or affiliation, that relies on totally kata-like training methods in which there is only one right way to do a given technique and one right way to do the ukemi for a given technique.

Janet Rosen
"peace will enter when hate is gone"--percy mayfield
  Reply With Quote
Old 07-08-2003, 11:42 AM   #3
Jesse Lee
Dojo: Tenzan Aikido, formerly named Seattle Aikikai
Location: Seattle, WA
Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 94
Really interesting question!

A few days ago, I was training with a friend who started at the dojo where I train, then he moved and went looking for another dojo. He went to a few that saw his waza and said, "Stop, you are doing it wrong. Do it this way."

He went to one (within ASU) where they all said, "Wow, you trained with so-and-so, show us how you folks do it. BTW, this is how we do it." He appreciated their open-mindedness and their desire to see what other flavors are out there, and he stayed.

Maybe a good guage for our dojos is the degree to which we welcome different flavors of the same waza. Maybe teachers can preserve the spirit Michael is looking for by drawing out what is new and different, r/t shutting it down only *because* it is new and different.

, can't find m s
  Reply With Quote
Old 07-08-2003, 10:35 PM   #4
MikeE's Avatar
Dojo: Midwest Center For Movement & Aikido Bukou Dojos
Location: Hudson, WI
Join Date: Jul 2000
Posts: 407
I stress alot of shinden fudo ryu "school of natural movement" in our aikido. Make it work for everyone on an individual basis. Sure, the principles remain the same. But, how we get to understand them is an uniquely personal thing.

If a technique isn't working for someone, I like for them to think about it in a succession of 4 different ways (components of mind/body unification--from Koichi Tohei Sensei)until it works. This seems to help them work through their individual barriers. If you have one, you automatically have them all.

I believe that as long as you adhere to the principles of Aikido, it will work.

Hopefully we'll here more from other individuals.

Mike Ellefson
Midwest Center
For Movement &
Aikido Bukou
  Reply With Quote
Old 07-09-2003, 02:41 AM   #5
Dojo: Kiburn, London, UK
Location: London
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 899
United Kingdom
Michael, you just have to ask the toughies don't you...

1. Not only seen it happen, but unfortunately was a victim of it recently. Not the fault of the uke, just me being a klutz and falling into the "assumptions trap" - worked it on through with the person to find out where I was failing, but it was a useful wake-up call.

2. Hopefully instill a better mind-set than the one I was showing that day. Main things we do is to introduce levels of resistance into kata and randori and allow any outre attack the uke wants to use. If someone from another style trains with us, we try to teach them how we do it, but always leave time for them to show us what comes naturally for them and definitely don't say that "they're wrong". Finally, the only real crash and burn (even in grading)with us is to stop in the middle of a technique because its "not working" - if that one isn't find one that does.

On other thing many of our dan grades do is actively seek out seminars run by other associations (and other ma) or even go on a little wander round nearby dojos (and yes, I think part of my problem is I've stopped doing this for a few years)

Any other tips happily invited.
  Reply With Quote
Old 07-09-2003, 04:26 AM   #6
Join Date: Mar 2002
Posts: 768
2) How do you defend against such a thing happening in your school? What mindset do you instill in your students. And how do you as an instructor keep from falling into this trap.
I strongly feel that this will happen to any school if there is "one and only one" way to perform a given technique, or if there are a myriad of variations allowed if kata training is the only method used. In contrast, I have never seen "dojo hypnotism" in any school where there was some form of dynamic training.


  Reply With Quote
Old 07-23-2003, 10:34 AM   #7
Alec Corper
Alec Corper's Avatar
Dojo: Itten Suginami Dojo, Nunspeet
Location: Wapenveld
Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 348
Dead right! it happens all the time, and, IMHO, in every dojo to some extent.

1. The problem is usually both, so its a great experience to work with. Trying to muscle the technique is the wrong response, as is telling uke to "attack" properly.

2.Send your students to other dojos, seminars, etc. Do the same yourself.

If your temper rises withdraw your hand, if your hand rises withdraw your temper.
  Reply With Quote
Old 07-24-2003, 03:48 AM   #8
Location: West Yorks and Merseyside, UK
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 170
United Kingdom
My understanding is that the closer you come to shodan the more seminars you start attending, more chasing senseis around the place, more mixing with different Aikido people.
  Reply With Quote

Please visit our sponsor:

AikiWeb Sponsored Links - Place your Aikido link here for only $10!


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Beginners Retention Rates akiy Teaching 45 04-05-2006 11:13 PM
Regarding James Smith Bedard Announcements & Feedback 183 02-17-2006 09:15 PM
Questions on Starting a New Dojo Paul Barrett Teaching 12 08-01-2004 05:46 PM
Ask not, what your dojo can do for you.. kensparrow General 23 05-20-2004 05:54 PM

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 08:08 AM.

vBulletin Copyright © 2000-2018 Jelsoft Enterprises Limited
Copyright 1997-2018 AikiWeb and its Authors, All Rights Reserved.
For questions and comments about this website:
Send E-mail
plainlaid-picaresque outchasing-protistan explicantia-altarage seaford-stellionate