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Old 07-15-2003, 02:34 PM   #51
shihonage
Join Date: Sep 2001
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Alfonso, you're using a tactic that I would call "amplifying things out of proportion/resorting to extremities/painting picture in black and white in order to make the other guy's statement look silly".

You're not the first, and undoubtedly you're not the last to use this technique.

However, all this serves is an unnecessary continuation of an unfruitful flamewar which degrades into posters throwing similar, dare I say, cheap tricks on one another until one of them gets tired of typing.

My point is, in fact, if you take time to read my post, is that the martial side of Aikido cannot and should not be neglected.

I'm not taking a stab at Aikido's other benefits, but only at people who praise the other benefits while completely discarding the martial.

Hopefully I have sufficiently explained myself at this point, so the next person to come at me with the same tactics can just be referred to this post.

Last edited by shihonage : 07-15-2003 at 02:38 PM.
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Old 07-15-2003, 03:56 PM   #52
willy_lee
Dojo: City Aikido
Location: San Francisco, CA USA
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Regarding testing yourself...

The Dog Brothers Gathering of the Pack was just this past weekend...

=wl
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Old 07-15-2003, 06:32 PM   #53
bob_stra
Location: Australia
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Re: Regarding testing yourself...

Quote:
Willy Lee (willy_lee) wrote:
The Dog Brothers Gathering of the Pack was just this past weekend...

=wl
*Now* that'd be something to see.

Did you go and observe or (*shudder*) participate Willy? How was it? I'd love to go to one of the Gatherings - if they're ever down under.
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Old 07-15-2003, 11:17 PM   #54
Nacho
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Replying to the original post:

Well if you want to test your fighting skills and pick a fight it's very simple, don't ask

you have a wide range, you can go from your little 8 year old cousin to insulting a bunch of hooligans.

But you always will be asking the same question to yourself all over again. You always will want to know how far you can go... and maybe the "limit" will be the day you "lose". And losing in a fight for real with no rules.. it can be death or serious injuries, perhaps ending handicapped.

I think Aikido is a very difficult martial art, and you have to really master the basics before testing your Aikido for real.. if don't, you will be testing only some fighting skills.

But... you can test your Aikido in ... "testings"... that's what testing goal is, to test your Aikido.
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Old 07-16-2003, 07:55 AM   #55
Cyrijl
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I think it helps to know what you are capable of. Not every challenge is a fight. So many people on this board abhor the idea of fighting which is why aikido appears weak.

Not everyone wants to sit back and say "I'm too deadly to test what i know".

melior est canis vivus leone mortuo
Bog svsami!!!
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Old 07-16-2003, 10:22 AM   #56
opherdonchin
Dojo: Baltimore Aikido
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Quote:
Not everyone wants to sit back and say "I'm too deadly to test what i know".
Sure, and anyone who feels a strong need to test themselves should certainly do so. I'm even interested to hear how they stack up relative to their expectations.

The basic point is that only you can give yourself a passing grade, and so you will have to figure out what it takes to get that passing grade from yourself. If you pass after you take on a guy with a knife or three guys with sticks, then that's going to be what it takes. As I get older, I find myself lowering the standards. That isn't because I've gotten lazy or complacent (I hope). It's more because I feel that I am more effective when I'm constantly succeeding rather than when I'm constantly failing. Even today, I figure I'm probably too hard on myself. So, my Aikido is succesful when I get to class more than 4 times a week and when I can stay focused on the things I'm trying to learn through the whole class. I can do this 2 out of 3 weeks and 1 out of 3 classes. That seems like a reasonable success rate to me.

Yours in Aiki
Opher
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Old 07-16-2003, 11:43 AM   #57
Cyrijl
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Opher Donchin,

that was a great post and i agree fully

melior est canis vivus leone mortuo
Bog svsami!!!
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Old 07-16-2003, 01:28 PM   #58
the slayer
Dojo: kaa headquarters
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hi my boyfriend helps me out sometimes in the park we have a play fight and i try to do some aikido moves to stop him getting me but he cheats and does a mixture of judo and some other i think army training.so this helps me when i am on the mat and when i am outside in the park with my boyfriend.my boyfriend does not do aikido.but it keeps me vigilante cause sometimes he will just try to grab me with no signs to say that he his about to do it. i haven't yet tried tecniques with my dog yet. :-)
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Old 07-16-2003, 03:36 PM   #59
Alfonso
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Aleksey , I might have gotten carried away by the force of your argument; and I do like to play devils advocate..

however, looking at things from the perspective of those who give *a pox on these aikido weenies* is a bit tyring for me.

Am I being too dense or is testing aikido through fighting not testing aikido?

Alfonso Adriasola
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Old 07-17-2003, 10:04 AM   #60
Thor's Hammer
Join Date: Mar 2003
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Interesting to see that even those that claim to adhere to the spiritual side of aikido and resist the duality of competition get caught up in the duality between people who mainly want to fight others and people who mainly want to fight themselves. Painting in black and white you will never find this 'truth' you claim to seek.

In response to the original question, the task of the aikidoka is to build heaven on earth. Ask yourself before you pick a fight if you are prepared to deal with the guilt if they die or are seriously injured.
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Old 07-17-2003, 11:02 AM   #61
happysod
Dojo: Kiburn, London, UK
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Alfonso, I'd question whether "picking a fight" is actually testing your aikido, win or lose, as I'd consider you've already failed by instigating the fight in the first place. Using your knowledge if attacked, different matter.

Bryan, hope to hell that's not the point of aikido, I'm rubbish at DIY. Thanks for the addition of the "how you deal with the aftermath" part, totally agree. I'd hate to train with someone who could feel nothing for someone they've injured.
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Old 07-17-2003, 11:50 AM   #62
mike lee
Location: Taipei, Taiwan
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no imagination

I think that if a person sincerely wants to test his skill, he should participate in a martial art that has sparring competitions, such as jiu-jutsu, judo, karate, kendo, tai boxing, kick-boxing, etc. There are also western fighting systems such as fencing, numerous forms of wrestling, and boxing.

With so many possible ways to test ones fighting skill, I have to question if someone looking to fight is truly a martial artist or just a hot dog. Wannabes who sport frail egos, disguised as macho men, rarely engage in any meaningful competition, because the very thought of losing frightens them to death!
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Old 07-17-2003, 12:03 PM   #63
Cyrijl
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Quote:
With so many possible ways to test ones fighting skill, I have to question if someone looking to fight is truly a martial artist or just a hot dog. Wannabes who sport frail egos, disguised as macho men, rarely engage in any meaningful competition, because the very thought of losing frightens them to death!
Give me a break...some people just want to see if they can actually fight. What is 'meaningful competition' in the martial arts world to you? Dancing, debate....it should be fighting.

melior est canis vivus leone mortuo
Bog svsami!!!
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Old 07-17-2003, 12:11 PM   #64
Alfonso
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Ian, I think that's what I meant. When I competed seriously I lost more often than won truth be said; though had to deal with both. In the end I'd much rather have a good time than win; I don't know what happened to my desire to win. I'm happy with Aikido .

Alfonso Adriasola
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Old 07-17-2003, 02:41 PM   #65
willy_lee
Dojo: City Aikido
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Re: Re: Regarding testing yourself...

Quote:
Bob Strahinjevich (bob_stra) wrote:
*Now* that'd be something to see.

Did you go and observe or (*shudder*) participate Willy? How was it? I'd love to go to one of the Gatherings - if they're ever down under.
Haha... I did not go, but I know a couple guys who went -- one guy works with me, came back with a black eye and some bruises. Also, apparently he cracked someone else's cup. He did four fights this Gathering -- he's been to I think one previous. He does regular fights with a group doing Dog Brothers style fights (every other week) and I've fought in a couple sessions with his group. The group has progressive levels of intensity, so my fights were with non-rattan sticks and aluminum training knives.

The group's website is here:

http://home.att.net/~gints/home.htm

It's really not that bad. With his group we fight in a garage, on concrete. No serious injuries beyond bruises and lumps, and they've been doing this for a couple years. But it can be surprising how tired you get going all out for 90 seconds. Learning how to relax in such a situation can be very valuable.

I would definitely recommend doing something similar for anyone interested.

There was a guy posting on the E-Budo Aikido forum who apparently went and used aiki-jo technique -- he said it worked a treat.

=wl
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Old 07-17-2003, 02:51 PM   #66
deepsoup
Dojo: Sheffield Shodokan Dojo
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Re: no imagination

Quote:
Mike Lee (mike lee) wrote:
I think that if a person sincerely wants to test his skill, he should participate in a martial art that has sparring competitions, such as jiu-jutsu, judo, karate, kendo, tai boxing, kick-boxing, etc. There are also western fighting systems such as fencing, numerous forms of wrestling, and boxing.
Or ..ahem.. aikido!

Come over to the dark side, Luke....
Quote:
Paul Watt wrote:
I'm not allowed to dance. I keep seeing all these openings for uchi-mata.....
My old judo instructor had a story about that, except it was o-soto-gari. There wasn't a second date.

Sean

x
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Old 07-17-2003, 04:46 PM   #67
willy_lee
Dojo: City Aikido
Location: San Francisco, CA USA
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Quote:
Jo Adell (Qatana) wrote:
Well, if she suddenly develops an interest, let me know. I know all the tango teachers in San Francisco.
Cool, thanks! I know someone in the flamenco scene, and some swing dancers, but no tangoists.
Quote:
Just want to widen the "gene pool" as tango dancers are cliquish & exclusive. I need to get more Aikido people & more Rennaisance Faire people into the mix...if i can just get them away from swing dancing long enuff to try...
Haha ... is swing dancing another aikido-linked trait? I mean, I've noticed a lot of aikido motorcyclists and surfers, never knew about the swing dancing link.

=wl
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Old 07-17-2003, 09:46 PM   #68
Steve Nathan
Dojo: Rensie Dojo
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I train in Australia, and recently received my Shodan ranking. I too once pondered if Aikido would be able to help me out in a real life situation. My sensei Barry Knight 6th Dan replied to me: "If you train regularely, then your instinct will take over. There will always be someone better, stronger & faster out there, so be true to yourself and trust your Aikido training & skills, it will surprise you"!

As for picking fights to test your insecurities, well I think there are other ways to test your Aikido.

Steve

Stephen Nathan
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Old 07-18-2003, 08:12 AM   #69
opherdonchin
Dojo: Baltimore Aikido
Location: Baltimore
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Holy cow! An on-topic post. I'd forgotten what the topic was.
Quote:
Willy wrote:
you know about the historical links between contact improv and aikido, right? In a sense, contact improv IS ukemi....
Same-same, but different, as they say. I'd love to get a topic started on the similarities and differences, but I don't figure there are enough Aikidoka who do contact on this forum to make it go.
Quote:
Jo wrote:
Ooooh contact improv with ukemi!!! me too, me too i wanna do that!
Well, you're pretty near the epicenter. You can find jams and classes near you at http://www.contactimprov.net. I see that there is one in Sonoma and three in San Francisco. Its really been changing and improving my Aikido as I become more able to integrate my body and learn to understand the difference between strong weight and light weight.

Yours in Aiki
Opher
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Old 07-18-2003, 02:04 PM   #70
jon_jankus
Dojo: aikido of westchester
Location: new york
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if someone fired a gun at me, i'd tenkan.
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Old 07-18-2003, 02:38 PM   #71
Qatana
 
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clarification-

Not that i have any problem incorporating spiritual aspects into Dance- for most of my life Dance was my Only spiritual practice.

But around here there is so much new-age crap it is impossible to discern the truly spiritual rather than slapping any of the new age keywords such as "celtic" or "wiccan" or "natural".

And that many of the participants have no interest in technique, ability, performance, appearance or soap, most of which i feel are necessary in any dance form.ANd i don't call a pile of bodies rolling around each other (possibly after covering each other in ceremonial clay or mud) is neccessarily "dance".

Again, this is possibly a regional thing, i Have studied contact improv in an academic environment and loved it.

when i watch some of the yudansha in my dojo doing blending practice with advanced techniques, however, i want to set it ot music...

Q
http://www.aikidopetaluma.com/
www.knot-working.com

"It is not wise to be incautious when confronting a little smiling bald man"'- Rule #1
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Old 07-18-2003, 03:34 PM   #72
shihonage
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Quote:
jon jankus (jon_jankus) wrote:
if someone fired a gun at me, i'd die.
Fixed your post.
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Old 07-22-2003, 02:48 PM   #73
akiy
 
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The off-topic posts regarding dancing and the Bay Area have been moved:

http://www.aikiweb.com/forums/showth...&threadid=4182

-- Jun

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