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Old 06-20-2003, 07:30 PM   #26
Niadh
Dojo: Berkshire Hills Aikido, MA
Join Date: Jul 2000
Posts: 70
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Just a one shot experience reply to Kevin

Really, the knife (or Shiv) doesn't matter in the movement or the center between two people. Can a light touch do more damage than a bare hands attack, yes, but as Paula noted, the one with superior movement is the most likely one to control the situation.

Not to say that one "ignores" the knife, but that to concentrate on the weapon, and neglect the center of the opponents is the way to get oneself hurt or killed.

Move, on your attackers committed intent, and know that you will get cut. Accept that inevitability and move through it. Only then can you move naturallly and effectively. If because of a superior movement (assuming this is the case, which you are right, one can not always assume), you neutralize the situation, excellent. If you can do so without serious injury, especially to either party, than all the better.

Yes, I have been attaked. At a former place of employment, by a client with a 8" shiv of glass. What did I do, I moved, I neutralized, I took the weapon, I had the client treated for the cuts to his hand.

I was unharmed. I was shaken. I did what I needed to do.

I and my attacker were approximately exual in weight, he had height and reach. I had clarity of mind, ease of movement and mind & body coordination.

Would I do it again? Only if I had no other choice. At the tim of this incident, i did not feel that I had another choice. Too many other peoples safety depended on my not letting him get away with this, including his.

Just a few thoughts

Niadh

Non Satis Scire
Niadh Feathers
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Old 06-20-2003, 08:50 PM   #27
opherdonchin
Dojo: Baltimore Aikido
Location: Baltimore
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 586
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Today in class, the instructor said "one thing about weapons: always make sure you've taken the weapon away at the end of the technique." For some reason, this discussion flashed through my mind and I thought about generalizing that principle to open hand technique.

Sorry, just a little silliness in the midst of a really interesting conversation.

Yours in Aiki
Opher
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Old 06-21-2003, 12:44 PM   #28
Paul Sanderson-Cimino
Dojo: Yoshokai; looking into judo
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 434
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Focus

I recall a few O-Sensei quotes about weapons. Granted, these are the words of a cultist who ran around in the mountains throwing cold water on himself and fighting 'tengu', but, hey, I think most of us understand that he walked the line between genius and insanity with one foot on either side, and learned a lot that way.

Watch not his flashing blade
Nothing can be seen there
His fists will reveal where he intends to cut


In a forest of the enemy's spears
Surrounded!
Then realize that those very spearheads
Are your very shield.


Without the slightest opening
Nor the least thought of the enemy
And his encircling swords
Step in and cut!


Don't look at the opponent's eyes, or your mind will be drawn into his eyes. Don't look at his sword, or you will be slain with his sword.

And one which I cannot find the exact version of ... but went something like:

"When you are unarmed, move as though you had a sword. When you have a sword, do not rely on it."

I'm sure he wasn't speaking too literally, but it makes some sense to me to imagine considering the opponent as a whole more than their weapon - or their punch, kick, etc. (I am a new student, and so this is speculation.)

It seems to me that a knife can be flitted around very swiftly, and trying to track it is problematic. Additionally, it might be misleading, because it is connected to an arm and ultimately a center of balance whose movements and positioning greatly influence how this extension of the person's body is capable of moving.

That being said, I'll close with a paraphrase of something a sempai told me while we were doing some knife stuff at an 'open mat':

"By the way, if someone comes at you with a knife and you're unarmed, you're probably going to get cut."

Last edited by Paul Sanderson-Cimino : 06-21-2003 at 12:57 PM.
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Old 06-23-2003, 09:00 PM   #29
Scott Sweetland
 
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Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 14
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Yagyu Munenori wrote this in "The Book of Family Traditions on the Art of War":

"Being "swordless" does not necessarily mean you have to take your opponent's sword. It also does not mean making a show of sword-snatching for your reputation. It is the swordless art of not getting killed when you have no sword. The basic intention is nothing like deliberately setting out to snatch a sword.

It is not a matter of insistently trying to wrest away what is being deliberately kept from your grasp. Not grasping attempts to avoid having it taken away is also "swordlessness." Someone who is intent upon not having his sword taken away forgets what he is opposed to and just tries to avoid having his sword taken away. Therefore he will be unable to kill anyone. Not being killed oneself is considered victory.

The principle is not to make an art of taking people's swords. It is learning to avoid being cut down by others when you have no sword yourself.

Swordlessness is not the art of taking another's sword. It is for the purpose of using all implements freely. When you are unarmed, if you can even take away another's sword and make it your own, then what will not be useful in your hands? Even if you only have a folding fan, you can still prevail over someone with a sword. This is the aim of swordlessness."


Yagyu Munenori's life depended on his sword, yet he understood that an encounter takes place between a person and another person, not a sword and an empty hand.
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Old 06-24-2003, 01:22 PM   #30
Paula Lydon
Dojo: Aikido Shugenkai
Location: Colorado
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 427
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~~Thank you, Scott! ~~

~~Paula~~
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