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Old 05-28-2003, 02:08 PM   #126
Ron Tisdale
Dojo: Doshinkan dojo in Roxborough, Pa
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It was a pretty bare bones kind of event...my attention wandered, he smacked the crap out of me. I'll say this, I no longer let my attention wander when he was on the floor. I watched him like a hawk!

RT

Ron Tisdale
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"The higher a monkey climbs, the more you see of his behind."
St. Bonaventure (ca. 1221-1274)
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Old 05-28-2003, 02:24 PM   #127
Don_Modesto
Dojo: Messores Sensei (Largo, Fl.)
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Quote:
Ron Tisdale wrote:
It was a pretty bare bones kind of event...my attention wandered, he smacked the crap out of me.
Just between you and me and all these discrete folks here online, I do that with one of my students who tends to wander, too. I've never put him on all fours, though, perhaps explaining why I've needed to do it more than once?

Don J. Modesto
St. Petersburg, Florida
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Old 05-28-2003, 02:40 PM   #128
Ron Tisdale
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Oh, I **wanted** to go to all fours...but I didn't dare. I'd already screwed up once, and I knew it. I was afraid he'd stomp the crap back into me if I went down...

RT

Ron Tisdale
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"The higher a monkey climbs, the more you see of his behind."
St. Bonaventure (ca. 1221-1274)
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Old 05-28-2003, 02:59 PM   #129
Don_Modesto
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Quote:
Ron Tisdale wrote:
I was afraid he'd stomp the crap back into me
!!!

Don J. Modesto
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Old 05-28-2003, 06:39 PM   #130
Chuck Clark
 
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Hi Don,

I was sitting in a classroom once in Marine Corps boot camp. It was raining outside, cold, and we were exhausted...inside it was warm, music was playing softly and the lecture was dull. I fell asleep. The next thing I knew I was laying in the aisle where I had landed after one of the D.I.s had knocked me out of my chair. I never fell asleep again. I sat on sharp rocks in Nam when on an ambush and had to stay awake, etc.

It was a good lesson. I got a dislocated elbow in 1966 at the Keisicho (Police dojo) in Tokyo from a friend because I kept doing something that could be countered easily with a juji gatame and didn't seem to think it could happen. The guy is still my friend.

I have left "memory knots" on Marines and also budo students that needed them. When judiciously done without anger, malicious intent, or "for kicks" a good thump can be just the right effect.

Best regards,

Chuck Clark
Jiyushinkai Aikibudo
www.jiyushinkai.org
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Old 05-28-2003, 09:02 PM   #131
PeterR
 
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You know Chuck - you really should write a book.
Quote:
C.E. Clark (Chuck Clark) wrote:
Hi Don,

I was sitting in a classroom once in Marine Corps boot camp. It was raining outside, cold, and we were exhausted...inside it was warm, music was playing softly and the lecture was dull. I fell asleep. The next thing I knew I was laying in the aisle where I had landed after one of the D.I.s had knocked me out of my chair. I never fell asleep again. I sat on sharp rocks in Nam when on an ambush and had to stay awake, etc.

It was a good lesson. I got a dislocated elbow in 1966 at the Keisicho (Police dojo) in Tokyo from a friend because I kept doing something that could be countered easily with a juji gatame and didn't seem to think it could happen. The guy is still my friend.

I have left "memory knots" on Marines and also budo students that needed them. When judiciously done without anger, malicious intent, or "for kicks" a good thump can be just the right effect.

Best regards,

Peter Rehse Shodokan Aikido
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Old 05-29-2003, 05:12 PM   #132
Don_Modesto
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Quote:
C.E. Clark (Chuck Clark) wrote:
When judiciously done without anger, malicious intent, or "for kicks" a good thump can be just the right effect.
Yup. I don't think it's germaine to the Chiba incident, but I agree.

Don J. Modesto
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Old 05-30-2003, 09:20 AM   #133
Chuck Clark
 
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Don,

As Peter mentioned above, I was responding not only to the Chiba incident but to the general responses of many posts on this subject.

I don't care for Chiba's behavior in many ways. I think he is capable of letting an "energy storm" erupt and affect a student in ways that can be positive. However, he also goes around the bend at times and can be destructive, in my opinion.

I got whacked by a Zen teacher many years ago and it really touched emotional triggers but did not even cause me to see stars, etc. It was exactly the right thing for me to experience at the time. The use of this sort of teaching tool for positive effects is a difficult and touchy thing to be sure.

Chuck Clark
Jiyushinkai Aikibudo
www.jiyushinkai.org
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Old 05-30-2003, 10:34 AM   #134
Dennis Hooker
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This slapping is a queer (strange) thing in my experience. I have endured punches and kicks with much less emotion than a slap has aroused. I don't know weather it is principally emotional, or if it is a physical reaction born out of negative stimulation of the bodies largest organ. I know it has in me caused a quick reactionary response one unplanned and wholly spontaneous. Several years ago I had to undergo a spinal tap. The first needle broke and the second stuck in bone. By the third I was white and nearly out. The neurologist seeing my face quickly slapped me. Rather hard as I remember. The next thing I know people were pulling at my arm as my hand was closed around his windpipe and he was pined to the table turning blue. I was horrified when I came around. It was like looking at another person's hand. I have never been slapped again and would rather be punched. I know as a child I would much rather have an adult use their fist and feet rather than an open hand. The hard slap seemed to hurt much worse and last longer. I would never slap a student. I have hit them and kicked them in the course of training and they had done the same to me, But we do not slap.

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Old 05-30-2003, 11:11 AM   #135
Ron Tisdale
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I agree Hooker Sensei. My reaction would have been totally different if my shotokan instructor had slapped me. I still would have gotten my butt kicked, but I would have had a different reaction. There is something somehow demeaning in a slap. As if you weren't worthy of a serious attack.

Ron Tisdale

Ron Tisdale
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Old 05-30-2003, 12:44 PM   #136
Chuck Clark
 
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Now that you mention it, none of the stuff I'm reminded of in my own history has been a slap "slap". An open hand strike with the palm (shotei) is not a "slap" in my mind.

I suspect that I wouldn't respond well to a slap either, Dennis.

Chuck Clark
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Old 05-30-2003, 01:54 PM   #137
Ron Tisdale
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Quote:
I suspect that I wouldn't respond well to a slap either, Dennis.
Ok, is it just me, or is that definately up for "Understatement of the Year" award???

RT (just kidding guys, please don't take it out on me at the expo....)

Ron Tisdale
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"The higher a monkey climbs, the more you see of his behind."
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Old 05-30-2003, 08:20 PM   #138
Usagi Yojimbo
Dojo: Shinkikan Aikikai Aikido of Corpus Christi
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Just my thoughts

Most reactions to something like this are largely situational. Although it was wrong on your teachers part in some ways, it should not be considered a major offence in my mind. It was only a slap, and unless this happens on an incredibly regular basis or worse occures, you might want to simply let it slide this time. If you make a big deal out of something like this, you could end up destroying the league by other people misconstruing actions and thoughts. Ticks me off when things like that happen. Kepp your eyes open, and not just in a negative sense.

My head hurts...
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Old 05-30-2003, 08:59 PM   #139
otto
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Could it be that the hardest lessons to learn , are the ones about humility..?

Plus KI!

"Perfection is a Process"
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Old 05-30-2003, 09:33 PM   #140
Usagi Yojimbo
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Hmm, upon further review of this thread, I am both envious and and gratefull. I know I have it extra good, my sensei is a very skilled Aikidoist (sp?) whom I greatly respect, as well as an understanding and patient person. His assistant, and our class's senior student is also an incredibly skilled Aikidoist (is the spelling right? is that even a word?) whom I also respect, but teaches with the same ability, in a completely different style. He's patient as well, but his techniques are more forcefull and quicker, forcing a reaction out of you. I like to think my sensei emphasizes technique, while the assistant emphasizes speed and reaction, both of which I highly prize. Kudos to both of you Sensei Joel Molina and Assistant Instructor John Garcia. I am proud to be your student.

Last edited by Usagi Yojimbo : 05-30-2003 at 09:35 PM.

My head hurts...
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Old 05-30-2003, 09:43 PM   #141
opherdonchin
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Quote:
Aikidoist (is the spelling right? is that even a word?)
People often use 'Aikidoka.'

Yours in Aiki
Opher
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Old 05-31-2003, 03:47 AM   #142
PeterR
 
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Quote:
Opher Donchin (opherdonchin) wrote:
People often use 'Aikidoka.'
I consider Aikidoist more correct than Aikidoka - we've been down this road before.

Peter Rehse Shodokan Aikido
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Old 05-31-2003, 08:37 AM   #143
opherdonchin
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I missed that discussion. Can you remember where it was or briefly recap?

Yours in Aiki
Opher
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Old 05-31-2003, 11:14 AM   #144
deepsoup
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Quote:
Opher Donchin (opherdonchin) wrote:
I missed that discussion. Can you remember where it was or briefly recap?
Theres a thread here that pretty much sums it up.

HTH

Sean

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Old 06-01-2003, 04:42 AM   #145
Shelley
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I know I'm kinda new for giving out advises, but in the dojo I train in they MAKE SURE beginners don't end up training with other newbies. Especially for weapons where serious damages could be inflicted onto one from another.

Of course accidents happens. But as far as I know there are no Slapping Attacks (although a few kinda looks like it ^_^) in Aikido so I highly doubt if it's accidental.

Personally I think a senior CAN tell a 3-classes person from someone more experienced, and he shouldn't have slapped you, but could it be simply a misunderstood rubbed in wrong way? From what I've seen off other Netherlander's posts, this instructor centainly isn't the, um, safest to train with and I'll assume that's the case.

If there are other gyms, LEAVE. In fact, leave anyway. Don't risk yourself on putting up with someone like that, especially considering he has so much more power over you.

After all, aikido SHOULD be about respecting each other. It's not ballet where they tell you to become anorexic or you are not good enough. They should be TEACHING you to make you better, not humiliate and abuse you.

All men can fly. But, only to one direction.

Love
Shelley
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