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Old 11-05-2002, 05:15 PM   #51
DrGazebo
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Bodhidharma vs. Buddha

Kung fu was not intended to be used for fighting, it was a meditative practice which contributed to the quest for enlightenment. All manners of fighters have justified slaughter on the basis of bushido. You need to remember, bushido is a warrior's code, and it was mostly about war, territory and power. It is only through Ueshiba and others like him, that the ugly intention of bushido could be harnessed for spiritual development.

Christianity and the military; not a logical match. Jesus told Peter to lay aside his sword, and his destruction of the merchant stalls in the temple was an example of his human frailty, not an example for us to go stomping ass when we are angry. Look at the power Jesus had, if he did exist, he could have wiped out the entire Roman army with a single word. But instead he let himself by tortured and killed, to show the violence accomplishes nothing.

These aren't my thoughts, they rest upon a conservative interpretation of the scriptures. No, a soldier cannot follow Christ, he must first lay aside his weapons; or did the Crusades teach us nothing?

Good thread, and please, keep it civil, this discussion has value for all of us to broaden our minds. The paradox is, of course, that without violence, there is no peace, yin and yang...and at the same time, woe to him through which it comes. A paradox again...
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Old 11-05-2002, 06:37 PM   #52
ChristianBoddum
 
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Hi again !

I am pleased to see that Gazebo is making an important point about Jesus that is very hard

for me to put into words,Jesus was and is not weak but he had to be the example for us to follow,when you read the bible you find out

where he comes from and the fury of God really

was love to start with but it took Jesus to really make it clear to us.

Jesus also said : I don't come with peace,

I come with the sword.

In his case the sword is the word.

I would like to elaborate on this ,but this I can do better in my native tongue and I'm not out to start a battle on words ,so I suggest if you want to know about Jesus ,approach him and read the bible ,there may be some shocking

realities revealed to you.

All for now .

Yours - Chr.B.
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Old 11-05-2002, 07:30 PM   #53
Kat.C
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Re: Bodhidharma vs. Buddha

Quote:
David Chandross (DrGazebo) wrote:
Christianity and the military; not a logical match.
Really? Read the old testament.
Quote:
Jesus told Peter to lay aside his sword, and his destruction of the merchant stalls in the temple was an example of his human frailty, not an example for us to go stomping ass when we are angry.
Well no it was because what they were doing was wrong, he said they had turned his house into a 'den of thieves'.
Quote:
Look at the power Jesus had, if he did exist, he could have wiped out the entire Roman army with a single word. But instead he let himself by tortured and killed, to show the violence accomplishes nothing.
Actually he allowed this to happen because he was following God's will, to cleanse us from sin.
Quote:
These aren't my thoughts, they rest upon a conservative interpretation of the scriptures.
Whose? Jesus states quite clearly who he is and why he is to die.
Quote:
No, a soldier cannot follow Christ, he must first lay aside his weapons; or did the Crusades teach us nothing?
Well the crusades aren't a guide to christianity the Bible is, and there was one centurion who had faith in Jesus, faith so great that Jesus himself commented on it, he also healed that soldier's servant. So it seems soldiers can be christians.
Quote:
Good thread, and please, keep it civil, this discussion has value for all of us to broaden our minds. The paradox is, of course, that without violence, there is no peace, yin and yang...and at the same time, woe to him through which it comes. A paradox again...

Kat

I find the aquisition of knowledge to be relatively easy, it is the application that is so difficult.
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Old 11-05-2002, 09:33 PM   #54
Kevin Leavitt
 
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Um, I guess I would qualify as a warrior.

From what I can read, there seems to be many folk in here who claim to be warriors, but are really not following the ethos.

I believe the Christian gentleman who started this thread had some questions that he wanted answered...some of us so called "warriors" have decided to take this as podium to express our swaggering "bullshido".

While a "true warrior" might not ever expect an apology, he also does much to prevent not unecessarily provoking anothers wrath.

If killing a person was the measure of warriorhood, then I guess that would make all the killers in prison "true warriors"

Being a warrior is not things like "how many boards can you have broken over your head without crying". Or how much you can suck it up. It is about developing a code of conduct or ethics and doing the right things even in the face of adversity or even when no one else is looking or even knowing.

I would have to agree somewhat with Mike Lee. I warrior doesn't expect gifts, rewards, compensation, medals, or accolades for doing what he does...he/she does it simply because it is the right thing to do.

Religion and religous beliefs are personal in nature, everyone must look within themselves to find spirituality and meaning. Some will find aikido to be in conflict with that, some will not.

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Old 11-06-2002, 08:22 AM   #55
ChristianBoddum
 
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Hi !

What Kat.C has put into words is what I wasn't

able to as well as.

Have a nice day with plenty of sweat !

yours - Chr.B.
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Old 11-06-2002, 11:51 AM   #56
Kat.C
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Quote:
Kevin Leavitt wrote:
Um, I guess I would qualify as a warrior.

From what I can read, there seems to be many folk in here who claim to be warriors, but are really not following the ethos.

While a "true warrior" might not ever expect an apology, he also does much to prevent not unecessarily provoking anothers wrath.

If killing a person was the measure of warriorhood, then I guess that would make all the killers in prison "true warriors"

Being a warrior is not things like "how many boards can you have broken over your head without crying". Or how much you can suck it up. It is about developing a code of conduct or ethics and doing the right things even in the face of adversity or even when no one else is looking or even knowing.

I would have to agree somewhat with Mike Lee. I warrior doesn't expect gifts, rewards, compensation, medals, or accolades for doing what he does...he/she does it simply because it is the right thing to do.
The word warrior comes from a french word meaning 'to make war'. A warrior is just someone who is experienced in the art of warfare or is involved in it. So even those warriors who don't follow codes of conduct or do 'the right thing' are still true warriors, just not ideal ones. Killers in jail are not warriors as the word refers to people with experience and skill in making war, not just someone who kills people.

Kat

I find the aquisition of knowledge to be relatively easy, it is the application that is so difficult.
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Old 11-07-2002, 03:45 AM   #57
mike lee
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the high road

Quote:
A warrior is just someone who is experienced in the art of warfare or is involved in it.
I'm using the term "warrior" as defined by the Native Americans, who believed that to travel the spiritual path, one had to have the spirit of a "warrior," that is one had to have a series of attributes to successfully travel on the spiritual road. Such attributes include morality, courage, and cunning.

The best books I've ever read on the way of the warrior from the Native American's perspective is a series written by the late Carlos Castinada.

Last edited by mike lee : 11-07-2002 at 03:48 AM.
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Old 11-07-2002, 04:10 AM   #58
Genex
 
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Lightbulb

kevin wilbanks wrote:
Quote:
In fact, I'll be happy to go on record as saying Christianity is one of the worst things that ever happened to the human race.
Well said that man say goodbye the the Celts to the American Indian the Inca's you name it man its all gone bad...

anyhoo back to the topic bushido and christianity

to be frank if your trying to see weather bushido and chrisitanity mix then i'd say yes. id say that EVERY religion mix's with aikido because it was made that way, the ideology behind it was one of peace and harmony, give me a religion that doesnt strive for that...mostly...

remember that aikido was born from Neo-shintoism but was developed philisophicaly to be used by anyone (ueshiba was a big beleiver in ppl). i'd say yes the way of the warrior does apply to aikido because of its vertues i'd say that the vertues instilled in bushido are timult to what most religions are based on so in essence i'd say stop bloody worrying about it and just enjoy the aikido...

yoroshiku

pete

like having your brains smashed out by a slice of lemon wrapped round a large gold brick. - The hitchhikers guide to the galaxy on the Pan-galactic Gargleblaster!
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Old 11-22-2002, 01:33 AM   #59
Josh Mason
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Don't be afraid to ask Boyd Sensei or Caudill Sensei any questions Vincent... Often times you will hear them say that there are no dumb questions, It is the question that goes unasked that is dumb. I know exactly how you feel about Boyd Sensei's presence. He does have a strong vibe and personality, some kind of energy about him that's very intimidating sometimes.

The Ronin Bushido Aikido club is an Independent organization. Sensei Richard Rood trained at Hombu under Morehei Ueshiba. Sensei Boyd trained at Hombu with Kisshomaru Ueshiba. No one really knows what ranking Boyd Sensei holds, rank really doesent matter with our organization.

Ronin Bushido is a great dojo. Boyd sensei, Caudill sensei, and all the instructors show infinite patience and kindness to their students. Why would anybody here try to devalue and disrespect an Aikido school like ours? To say those kinds of things is disrespectful to the founder Morehei Ueshiba, who developed Aikido for EVERYONE to practice, no matter what. Your affiliations and all those small things really don't matter. Aikido runs much deeper than that.

Last edited by Josh Mason : 11-22-2002 at 01:40 AM.

Those who are skilled at combat do not become angered or afraid. Thus, the wise win before the fight, while the ignorant fight to win.
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Old 11-22-2002, 04:54 PM   #60
Bruce Baker
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Not really, O'Sensei did not develope Aikido for everyone, but as a means to make money to support his family and make a living. The fact that the developement of his training led to Aikido was a significant blending of many styles of martial arts.

The fact that his son was able to expand the arena of his teachings into Aikido, and have this art grow into a world wide practice was a side effect of being stubborn in his belief he was on the right track find a higher practice for martial arts than was presently being taught in his day.

The tricks are all there, the road can be clear for you to learn, or you can idolize our predecessors to the point of missing the humanity of an average person who learned to do extraordinary things.

Bushido? Ronin? Average citizen overcoming fear to do extradorinary things?

Yeah, our stubbornness is our flaw, as well as being our savior to rise to a higher level ... in all things.
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Old 12-19-2002, 01:45 AM   #61
Williamross77
 
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Well, there is a significant history of christian samurai, predating all of us. (AD1660+) I like them and their history.

Think about this...

Peter is strolling around with Jesus for three years before that night he cut off the Roman ear, not once before that night did Jesus tell his disciples "quit carring your swords!", that tells me something.

About bushido... Aikido seems to transform the code to mean the way of Serving the universe(God if you will) as a samurai thus The old Samurai bushido serves his lord:

The new samurai aikibudo serves the universe at his best.

Aikido can serve your Christianity, it does mine...

in Aiki
Agatsu!!
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Old 05-13-2003, 01:39 AM   #62
kironin
 
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Ki Symbol

Quote:
Bill Ross (Williamross77) wrote:
Well, there is a significant history of christian samurai, predating all of us. (AD1660+) I like them and their history.

....

Aikido can serve your Christianity, it does mine...
and on that note...

Wayne comes through...

http://www.furyu.com/archives/issue2/gracia.html

interesting history even earlier than 1660 CE

Craig
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