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Old 03-14-2003, 03:43 PM   #1
jaxonbrown
Join Date: Oct 2001
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Fight vid - could aikido work here?

warning: graphic violence/language - but hey we're all warriors right?

http://www.funfreepages.com/videos/vid/pussy.wmv

flying fists, flaring tempers. c'mon man use ikkyo!
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Old 03-14-2003, 04:15 PM   #2
shihonage
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To be frank, I hope that my technique and flow are as good as the black guy's in a similar situation.

He maintains distance, slips/blocks from the inside the first strike (which overextends), does strong atemi, then immediately moves to the guy's side, ikkyo-like positioning himself behind the arm, gets himself behind the guy ASAP, and then he gets control of the head, kaiten-nage like, all the while delivering continuous atemi, and brings the guy to the ground, still striking non-stop.

All sound strategies, and he is barely harmed in the end.
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Old 03-14-2003, 04:19 PM   #3
jaxonbrown
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Quote:
Aleksey Sundeyev (shihonage) wrote:
To be frank, I hope that my technique and flow are as good as the black guy's in a similar situation. -snip-
??? so this *was* aikido? looked like two animals flailing about
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Old 03-15-2003, 01:22 AM   #4
dezire
Dojo: Aikido Club "Yami Yaburu Hikari"
Location: Subotica
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All I can say that using aikido, this could have been over before it was started. Not meaning the policy to prevent the fight before it starts, because some thing you can't talk through, but rather when the first blow was given (and missed), the oporutnity for doing a technique such as ikkyo, nikkyo or a simple (but if done well very effective) ushirokiriotoshi, was there. The fact that these guys just went with their fists at each other says a lot about their training (wich is street-fight), and not to mention the meaning of the fact that could be put in a phrase "kick a man while he is down", and "just to make sure kick him a few times when he is not moving any more".

This video is just an exaple of a street fight and not any specific martial art - especially NOT aikido.

Crnjakovic Zeljko, nikyu
AK "Yami Yaburu Hikari"
Subotica, Yugoslavia

http://www.geocities.com/clubhikari
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Old 03-15-2003, 02:08 AM   #5
Paul Klembeck
Location: silicon valley
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Welcome to the real world, dojo guys. For the most part I agree with Aleksey. The black guy slips the first punch, has a good atemi (in the dojo, the attacker falls down here to avoid being hit, but ... welcome to the real world). He slips behind and does an iriminage as well as 98% of aikidoka would, given that, in the real world, they are thinking, "this really can't be happening to ME" and slipping into adrenal response. From here on however, things slip into a classic example of the deteriorization that comes with adrenal response. The punchs are too hurried and too weak to have much effect. Of course, dojo training doesn't prepare one for this either, so I don't believe the purely dojo trained would do any better.

For those interested in real fighting, I stongly recommend Model Mugging for women or RMCAT or fastdefence for the general martial arts community. Then you can finish without flailing, either with aiki stuff or otherwise. Best of all they teach you how to avoid getting into this in the first place.

Paul Klembeck
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Old 03-15-2003, 02:22 AM   #6
dezire
Dojo: Aikido Club "Yami Yaburu Hikari"
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I must say that i somewhat agree with Paul for the part of rushing adrenaline, and loosing control. But still being an aikidoka means at laest trying to stay calm in a situation where a fight is inevidable. I know this is hard and 95% of people can't stay in control, but it is not impossible. As an aikidoka you train not to fear the hits, and to move your body so even the slightest move in the hips can make the coming punch pass right by you.

I agree that the black guy in this video has a good evasive strategie, but it is still a street fight with no elements of a controled temper and no attempt at a semi-full techinque.

Unfourtunatelly, as Paul said, 98% of people would behaive this way, because of an adernaline rush, and the insinct "crush the opponent because he was insolent enough to attack me".

Crnjakovic Zeljko, nikyu
AK "Yami Yaburu Hikari"
Subotica, Yugoslavia

http://www.geocities.com/clubhikari
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Old 03-15-2003, 03:32 AM   #7
bob_stra
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Zdravo Zeljko. Dobroje da se vide drugi jugosloveni ovde!!

Anyway...

You all know the black guy was *starting* the fight, right?

I think aikido could work in this situation, but the white kid would have had to have some cross training. He losses distance too quickly to able to use "pure aikido" (whatever that is - last time I went to training, we were working off Bong Sau, a wing chun tech, into irimi nage!!)

Aikido works well when setup with other things IMHE. Taisabaki, Te kick, irimi nage is a good 'un.
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Old 03-15-2003, 04:01 AM   #8
shihonage
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Quote:
Bob Strahinjevich (bob_stra) wrote:
Zdravo Zeljko. Dobroje da se vide drugi jugosloveni ovde!!
"Hello (Be well) Zeljko. It's good to see friends from Yugoslavia here !"

Am I too far off in translation ?
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Old 03-15-2003, 04:11 AM   #9
dezire
Dojo: Aikido Club "Yami Yaburu Hikari"
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To Aleksey: No you are not far in the translation, it's very good.

To Bob: Pa zdravo i tebi i ja verujem da nas ima ovde dosta ali uvek je lepo naici na nekog ko ima iste interese.

Crnjakovic Zeljko, nikyu
AK "Yami Yaburu Hikari"
Subotica, Yugoslavia

http://www.geocities.com/clubhikari
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Old 03-15-2003, 07:33 AM   #10
bob_stra
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Quote:
Aleksey Sundeyev (shihonage) wrote:
"Hello (Be well) Zeljko. It's good to see friends from Yugoslavia here !"

Am I too far off in translation ?
That's excellent - does your (?Russian) heritage allow you to do that, or are you cheating and using Babble Fish? ;-)

Good people them Ruski's ;-)

Zeljko - that's terrible news about the president. What happened?

Co-incidentally, some of my family is out towards Subotica (I'm a belgrade / bor lad myself).


Last edited by bob_stra : 03-15-2003 at 07:37 AM.
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Old 03-15-2003, 07:55 AM   #11
dezire
Dojo: Aikido Club "Yami Yaburu Hikari"
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well, it is terrible news indeed. He was shot two days ago by a criminal organisation. Just now was the funeral. We lost a great politician and a democrat.

But I don't think we should change the subject of this thread for our own purposes. I'm glad you sympatize.

Crnjakovic Zeljko, nikyu
AK "Yami Yaburu Hikari"
Subotica, Yugoslavia

http://www.geocities.com/clubhikari
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Old 03-15-2003, 10:10 AM   #12
bob_stra
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Quote:
Zeljko Crnjakovic (dezire) wrote:
But I don't think we should change the subject of this thread for our own purposes. I'm glad you sympatize.
I understand, it's a sensitive issue. So, back on topic...

Take a look at this one as an eye opener

http://www.bullshido.us/dl_goto.asp?id=6

The Mcdojo site is full of trolls, but there are some interesting things to ponder over.

http://tinyurl.com/7j6j
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Old 03-15-2003, 10:29 AM   #13
dezire
Dojo: Aikido Club "Yami Yaburu Hikari"
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Well those videoes capture what happens in about 90% of cases in a fight. It's shoving, empty swinging, punching whatever you can reach...

I once again want to emphasise that that is not a martial art, esspecially not aikido. Aikido in it's true form is seen very raraely, mainly because those fights are over very, very quickly and you can't call them "fights". One person attacks, and the aikidoka neutralizes him. In cases where there are many attackers most of the time, one person attacks, is "neutralized", and others just give up...

Crnjakovic Zeljko, nikyu
AK "Yami Yaburu Hikari"
Subotica, Yugoslavia

http://www.geocities.com/clubhikari
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Old 03-17-2003, 10:22 AM   #14
Cyrijl
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in this case, throwing the first punch was definitely a bad idea.

And calling names...

melior est canis vivus leone mortuo
Bog svsami!!!
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Old 03-17-2003, 12:42 PM   #15
shihonage
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Quote:
Bob Strahinjevich (bob_stra) wrote:
That's excellent - does your (?Russian) heritage allow you to do that, or are you cheating and using Babble Fish? ;-)
Not cheating.

The Russian version would be something like this:

Zdravstvuite Zeljko. Rad videt' druga iz Yugoslavii zdes' !

("Dobro" means "goodness" in Russian, but in a different context; so I could guess the meaning of "Dobroje" and replace with suitable translation)
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Old 03-18-2003, 07:25 AM   #16
ian
 
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The tactics he uses are common to those given for in simple self-defence - drive forward, keep attacking, and focus on striking the neck. I think it shows how effective it is. However, you have to think, what was this persons objective? In aikido I think we try much more to resolve conflict - the poor victim here will probably feel nothing but bitterness.

---understanding aikido is understanding the training method---
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Old 03-24-2003, 02:25 PM   #17
willy_lee
Dojo: City Aikido
Location: San Francisco, CA USA
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Quote:
Ian Dodkins (ian) wrote:
In aikido I think we try much more to resolve conflict - the poor victim here will probably feel nothing but bitterness.
Yes, bitterness and humiliation.

I think this clip is a valuable reminder to all of us. I think we get somewhat conditioned to think that nage is the good guy, acts defensively, and nage will always win. It's good to remember that that is not always the case. Is it "acting defensively" if you are provoking an attack? Is nage always the good guy?

Bad guy shows some good timing. He forces a predictable, weakened attack (insults as kiai?) and then deals with it as well as any dojo nage might wish. He makes himself "nage". He takes the initiative and the balance and never gives it back.

It's a good thing that his punches end up so weak that the poor victim ends up with nothing worse than some bruises and total humiliation in front of his peers. Isn't it interesting that this kind of situation is what drives so many people to seek training in martial arts? And yet, bad guy is better at it... maybe even without training.

Something to remember when training, I'd say.

=wl
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