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Old 02-18-2003, 09:04 PM   #26
Edward
Location: Bangkok
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Quote:
Hanna Björk (Hanna B) wrote:
A challenging view indeed! I agree that you should not concentrate too much on improvement, as this will make you frustrated. However, I'm not a zen buddhist and I have always seen continous development as a goal in aikido. A major goal, actually, easier to fulfill now than it will be in twenty years. The joy in the moment, and development over longer time.
Well, let's face it. We all have our limitations, and there will be certainly a level where we would not improve any more, or very very slowly. We are not born equal in this respect.

I have seen people with more than 20 years experience and others with only a few years with very similar technical levels.

I think we should do aikido for the joy and well-being that it provides us, that is enough reward by itself. With this kind of attitude, I believe improvement would come more naturally and even quickly than if you actually seek it.

And I'm no Zen buddhist either but don't forget this is a traditional Japanese martial art.

Cheers,

Edward
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Old 02-19-2003, 09:31 AM   #27
Hanna B
Location: Stockholm, Sweden
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I never intended to ask for the ultimate way of improvement, just what affects it... the only thing I do not want is to stand still.

There are many things that come easier if you don't try too hard. That does not equal that these things should not be considered goals!

I can not see any contradiction between joy and well-being as a short-time goal and development as a long-term one.

So, you do not want to have goals that get harder to fulfil over the years, and that some people do not succeed in fulfilling? Why not?
Quote:
And I'm no Zen buddhist either but don't forget this is a traditional Japanese martial art.
I would suppose your opinion on the matter is rather unusual. Am I wrong?
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Old 02-19-2003, 10:49 AM   #28
happysod
Dojo: Kiburn, London, UK
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Just curious, but what are you using to measure "successful training"? Speed you can fly up the belts, the respect of your fellow ukes?

The reason I'm asking is that one of the hardest things I've found with aikido is how to actually measure whether you've got any better at the damn thing or not. I've also had to reassure many students at the lower kyu grades that "yes you're improving and no you can't quit you 'orrible little person".

That's why I've plumped for the slog approach, just keep turning up as often as your body/partner/life can stand it without turning you off completely and hope that dojo osmosis actually works. If you're not enjoying the training, give yourself a break, it's allowed. Also, if you meet your current goals, just change them.
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Old 02-19-2003, 11:23 AM   #29
bob_stra
Location: Australia
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Quote:
Ian Hurst (happysod) wrote:
Just curious, but what are you using to measure "successful training"? Speed you can fly up the belts, the respect of your fellow ukes?

The reason I'm asking is that one of the hardest things I've found with aikido is how to actually measure whether you've got any better at the damn thing or not.
I agree with that. It really is inordinately difficult to "measure" progress in aikido. Some days are good, some days are klutzy. Which is the accurate reflection of skill?

For me, I've settled on the idea of going by feel. How "good" was today vs the last "good" day? Was it easier to perfrom X? Did I respond with Z given Y? Did I allow myself to flow from A to B when A didn't work?

To (badly) paraphrase - "It's a lot like dancing. The more technical you get, the less enjoyable. The more enjoyable, the less technical. You're kinda screwed huh?"
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Old 02-19-2003, 01:09 PM   #30
paw
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Quote:
I agree with that. It really is inordinately difficult to "measure" progress in aikido. Some days are good, some days are klutzy. Which is the accurate reflection of skill?
They both are.
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The more technical you get, the less enjoyable. The more enjoyable, the less technical.
What do you mean by "technical"?

Regards,

Paul
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Old 02-19-2003, 07:46 PM   #31
PeterR
 
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Dojo: Shodokan Honbu (Osaka)
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Quote:
Bob Strahinjevich (bob_stra) wrote:
To (badly) paraphrase - "It's a lot like dancing. The more technical you get, the less enjoyable. The more enjoyable, the less technical. You're kinda screwed huh?"
I know what you mean but like Paul I'm asking define technical.

Personally speaking there are times where I really enjoy getting very very technical. Other times I just want to move.

Peter Rehse Shodokan Aikido
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Old 02-19-2003, 08:57 PM   #32
Edward
Location: Bangkok
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Quote:
Hanna Björk (Hanna B) wrote:
I would suppose your opinion on the matter is rather unusual. Am I wrong?
I think you are I believe this is the approach of all traditional Japanese martial arts. I am not saying that improvement is not important. It should not be important to you, and that's how you WILL improve faster.

This is kind of hypocritical thinking, but Asian religions and philosophies are all so fond of this kind of rhetoric, where if you want something you should not seek it, then it will come by itself. Kind of following your shadow....
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Old 02-20-2003, 03:07 PM   #33
bob_stra
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Quote:
Peter Rehse (PeterR) wrote:
I know what you mean but like Paul I'm asking define technical.
For me technical means getting too caught up in the headspace. For example, being curious abt how my body feels when doing the move isn't too technical. Playing with the move (if/then) to differentiate things isn't too technical. Starting to wonder if I could create the perfect backwards shaping drill to learn this move in x hours over y days...too technical.

It's too technical once it stops being a "playout" and turns into a workout.
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