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Old 05-02-2017, 11:00 PM   #26
rugwithlegs
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Re: YouTube: Jenny Flower: Ai hamni iriminage drop down

Quote:
David Soroko wrote: View Post
Not a henka then?
The first piece would be a modified ushiro ate, the second the aigamaeate. Like you've been saying, the first part gets him down and can be a finishing move in and of itself. Of course I'm an Aikikai student who might have the names all wrong and this whole idea of a multiple movement technique containing several techniques is a personal approach like you noted before. If a technique takes longer than a split second, uke usually did something making it necessary.
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Old 05-03-2017, 06:53 AM   #27
Demetrio Cereijo
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Re: YouTube: Jenny Flower: Ai hamni iriminage drop down

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David Soroko wrote: View Post
Why?
Because both uke and tori have a role to play.
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Old 05-03-2017, 08:39 AM   #28
MRoh
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Re: YouTube: Jenny Flower: Ai hamni iriminage drop down

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John Hillson wrote: View Post
The first piece would be a modified ushiro ate, the second the aigamaeate.
Is aigamae ate a defined technique?
In this Video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YEbhd4y5txI
I see different versions of aigamae ate. it seems to be an atemi technique that is applied in different waza.
They also partly consist of two pieces, in 1.10 you see a version with bringing uke down at first, the first one at the beginning of the video is ikkyo, then irimi nage.
Others I would call tenchi-nage, or just irimi nage.

The difference here is that uke is not taken down with a cutting movement, more torn down by grabbing his neck.
Control is much better in the Jenny Flower version.

Last edited by MRoh : 05-03-2017 at 08:43 AM.
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Old 05-03-2017, 09:12 AM   #29
sorokod
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Re: YouTube: Jenny Flower: Ai hamni iriminage drop down

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Demetrio Cereijo wrote: View Post
Because both uke and tori have a role to play.
That is always the case in form based training. Can you say a bit more about the roles you see in the video?

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Old 05-03-2017, 10:23 AM   #30
Demetrio Cereijo
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Re: YouTube: Jenny Flower: Ai hamni iriminage drop down

IMO uke plays the role of an attacker who leaves a big opening so his back can be taken and tori plays the role of a defender who is unable to fully exploit uke's mistake and has to wait for uke to make a second mistake.
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Old 05-04-2017, 08:07 AM   #31
lbb
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Re: YouTube: Jenny Flower: Ai hamni iriminage drop down

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David Soroko wrote: View Post
Well, you have "believe" vs "think" and "advantageous" vs "preferable" but beyond that, the scenario is rooted in a misunderstanding between tori and uke.
No, you said that they get up because it is advantageous for them to do so; I said that they get up because they believe (or think, doesn't make any difference) that it is advantageous to do so. I may think there's a pot of gold at the end of the rainbow; doesn't make it so.
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Old 05-04-2017, 09:32 AM   #32
sorokod
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Re: YouTube: Jenny Flower: Ai hamni iriminage drop down

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Mary Malmros wrote: View Post
No, you said that they get up because it is advantageous for them to do so; I said that they get up because they believe (or think, doesn't make any difference) that it is advantageous to do so. I may think there's a pot of gold at the end of the rainbow; doesn't make it so.
Regardless, in the scenario you described, uke and tori can't be both correct at the same time. The form is based on a misunderstanding.

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Old 05-04-2017, 09:36 AM   #33
MRoh
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Re: YouTube: Jenny Flower: Ai hamni iriminage drop down

I would say it's just a training agreement, nothing else.
Uke has some work to do.
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Old 05-04-2017, 10:04 AM   #34
sorokod
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Re: YouTube: Jenny Flower: Ai hamni iriminage drop down

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Markus Rohde wrote: View Post
I would say it's just a training agreement, nothing else.
Uke has some work to do.
Sure, that is what form based training is. The participants enact a scenario and everyone has a role to play. It this case the scenario makes no sense.

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Old 05-04-2017, 10:21 AM   #35
MRoh
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Re: YouTube: Jenny Flower: Ai hamni iriminage drop down

Maybe Jenny Flowers could tell us what sense it makes for her.
I don't like the movement very much, because there is danger for ukes shoulder or ellbow. I wouldn't like to be smashed on my shoulder in that way.
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Old 05-04-2017, 10:38 AM   #36
rugwithlegs
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Re: YouTube: Jenny Flower: Ai hamni iriminage drop down

So this is why I give myself permission to break larger movements into identifiable smaller ones. I give it a context to make sense. For me, that usually means a string of henka. This style of iriminage has a different name in Ki Aikido for the start, but I don't remember what the name is. Uke turns/gets turned and doesn't land back of the skull first. Then palm strike to the face as they attack again, then palm strike a second time while breaking the elbow. Ushiro ate, aigameate, gyaku gameate or use another name. But I don't see it as one solo idea.
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