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Old 02-15-2017, 10:37 AM   #1
MrIggy
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Are you invincible if you possess Aiki?

So in general, with all of the commotion regarding the elusive "Aiki" (internal strength, power, jin or whatever), all i wan't to know is, is it worth it? The point being that there are rarely few people that have it, many of those that have it don't seem to have enough of it or are not on a very high level, many of them took years to develop it (even on a low level), the developing of it involved various methods that don't seem to be adequate to everyone's "needs", the ways of developing it are by testimonial evidence, among other places presented also here on aikiweb, in contradictory to regular training methods, so basically you have to involve a separate training method for developing Aiki and keep, or discard, the regular training method for the external type because if you have Aiki you essentially don't need the regular external training. I know a number of highly skilled people in Aikido, for which i know or at least have an idea how they developed their skills. By what i have seen and read in many places online they don't seem to possess Aiki but that still doesn't undermine their skills. Therefore should someone still spend time they would normally spend on practicing and developing the external skills on practicing how to develop Aiki, for which there is no guarantee it will develop to a certain "useful" level or at all, or face the fact that Takeda, Ueshiba, Horikawa, Sagawa, Okamoto and maybe some others simply were in the right place in the right time with regular teachers and also owned the much needed amount of talent for achieving such high level of skills in Aiki training. Also if there is some midpoint, using some amount of Aiki for regular external training, does it actually make any valuable difference? I mean if somebody attacks me from behind for a choke, or if i spar with a stricker, does that low level have any value in a conflict situation like that?

Last edited by MrIggy : 02-15-2017 at 10:39 AM.
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Old 02-15-2017, 10:57 AM   #2
Demetrio Cereijo
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Re: Are you invincible if you possess Aiki?

Are you invincible if you possess Aiki?

Of course. Ueshiba, Horikawa, Sagawa, Okamoto et al have never been defeated in a fight.
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Old 02-15-2017, 11:58 AM   #3
GovernorSilver
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Re: Are you invincible if you possess Aiki?

If two Aiki-possessors fought, one of them would lose, no?
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Old 02-15-2017, 12:28 PM   #4
shuckser
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Re: Are you invincible if you possess Aiki?

I guess I don't know anything about Aiki.

As far as I understand, the feeling is born and dies during an interaction. It doesn't exist in isolation. I mean, if you go to a bowling alley you'll see a lot of bowling balls. All loaded with potential energy. But none of them are near your hands, so whatever potential there is between you and them means nothing until you actually pick one up.
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Old 02-15-2017, 12:29 PM   #5
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Re: Are you invincible if you possess Aiki?

You are not invincible. Aiki is not magic.

Many of the people we value in the aiki arts possessed strong aiki skills. Of late, the number of contemporary people with similar reputations has dwindled. Internal power is not for everyone and I don't begrudge anyone either way. I have touched too many people with good ip/aiki, so I will say it's worth it.

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Old 02-15-2017, 01:35 PM   #6
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Re: Are you invincible if you possess Aiki?

If you have been practicing awhile, you will likely be touching on aiki in many of your ordinary waza. It just needs pointing out, realizing if you like, then you can target it for development. There is no magic. It is just the way you use you body and your and uke's energy. Not magical ki energy, just the power that you generate and that which your uke gives you, or you lure him to give you, to deal with. It is totally practical but most people just skirt around the edges because they are not directed towards it.
It will not make anyone invincible because most people that practice aiki do it in a very limited - nice uke - environment. Even the so-called 'strong attack' we do is so predictable you have to be a fool to believe it is anything close to real.
Just my 2c.

Last edited by Rupert Atkinson : 02-15-2017 at 01:39 PM.

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Old 02-16-2017, 05:11 AM   #7
MrIggy
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Re: Are you invincible if you possess Aiki?

Quote:
Paolo Valladolid wrote: View Post
If two Aiki-possessors fought, one of them would lose, no?
I never heard of a similar situation so i wouldn't know.
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Old 02-16-2017, 05:19 AM   #8
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Re: Are you invincible if you possess Aiki?

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Igor Vojnović wrote: View Post
I never heard of a similar situation so i wouldn't know.
They would never come to blows - probably spend their time arguing that only they possessed true aiki.

Minor digs aside - one of the older descriptions of aiki did refer to two swordsman in perfect harmony. Neither seeing an opening in the other.

Peter Rehse Shodokan Aikido
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Old 02-16-2017, 06:07 AM   #9
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Re: Are you invincible if you possess Aiki?

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Peter Rehse wrote: View Post
They would never come to blows - probably spend their time arguing that only they possessed true aiki.
While performing parlor tricks.
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Old 02-16-2017, 06:10 AM   #10
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Re: Are you invincible if you possess Aiki?

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While performing parlor tricks.

Peter Rehse Shodokan Aikido
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Old 02-16-2017, 06:42 AM   #11
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Re: Are you invincible if you possess Aiki?

Quote:
Igor Vojnović wrote: View Post
So in general, with all of the commotion regarding the elusive "Aiki" (internal strength, power, jin or whatever), all i wan't to know is, is it worth it?
Is that really all you want to know Igor? If it is, why have you followed up with your own personal point of view?
Are you interested in the answer or not? You open from a position of not knowing about Aiki/IP.....yet still seem to offer your opinions on it.
Quote:
Igor Vojnović wrote: View Post
The point being that there are rarely few people that have it, many of those that have it don't seem to have enough of it or are not on a very high level, many of them took years to develop it (even on a low level),
Correct. There are very few people who have it. There are many that think they have it......and don't know what they don't know.
There are leaders in the field though, their names are not hard to find and there are more and more courses where these people teach.
In sharing this information a lot of ivory towers have been broken and a lot of ego's bruised.
Mine was.
I asked the same questions as you on Aikiweb 6, 7, 8 years ago....I argued with Mike Sigman, with Dan Harden because I didn't know what they were talking about and persisted in pushing my ideas back at them. Its no wonder they got frustrated.
But I made the effort to get to a seminar.....and the truth was instantly available.
I see exactly same thing today..... Jon Reading posts something to continue to share....and gets responses from people agreeing with him when the clearly don't know what he's trying to say....or even congratulating him on correcting the flaws in his Aikido practice while implying they of course have no need of such improvements because their Aikido is perfect.
Yes -- it does take a long time to develop. Doing Aikido forms is one thing. Doing them with Aiki is another. What do you want? A lifetime pursuit of perfection or a 10 week course in self-defence?
And there are degrees of aiki ...even a little starts to take practice from empty forms to something more...
Quote:
Igor Vojnović wrote: View Post
the developing of it involved various methods that don't seem to be adequate to everyone's "needs",
Boo hoo! Thats a terrible shame....... What the heck. If you want to do something ....and you want to excel at it .....you will eat bitter. Those that aspire to excellence.....work hard for it. Period. Sometimes that means doing something thats not adequate to your needs. Either accept that your needs mean you have to set different targets. Or get some new needs.

Quote:
Igor Vojnović wrote: View Post
the ways of developing it are by testimonial evidence, among other places presented also here on aikiweb, in contradictory to regular training methods, so basically you have to involve a separate training method for developing Aiki and keep, or discard, the regular training method for the external type because if you have Aiki you essentially don't need the regular external training.
well...this issue really is that it has to be felt. Stick a video of regular Aikido up on Youtube....leave it open for comments.....and expect a flood of teenagers and keyboard warriors to rip it to shreds.
Even worse for the solo training thats a defining part of Aiki/IP.
Separate training method needed? Well yes....and no. In my experience the solo work is essential for rewiring the body & mind....but it can still be practiced in regular waza. Anyone that trains with me now compared to 5 years ago will feel the difference.... I know why that is and who deserves the credit.
You don't need regular external training? Well remove external and just consider the training. I train with Dan Harden so can't speak of other names in this field but Dan has a progression from solo training through to fighting using Aiki/IP. So you don't have to abandon the paired waza training.....but it will change as your body changes.
Quote:
Igor Vojnović wrote: View Post
I know a number of highly skilled people in Aikido, for which i know or at least have an idea how they developed their skills. By what i have seen and read in many places online they don't seem to possess Aiki but that still doesn't undermine their skills. Therefore should someone still spend time they would normally spend on practicing and developing the external skills on practicing how to develop Aiki, for which there is no guarantee it will develop to a certain "useful" level or at all, or face the fact that Takeda, Ueshiba, Horikawa, Sagawa, Okamoto and maybe some others simply were in the right place in the right time with regular teachers and also owned the much needed amount of talent for achieving such high level of skills in Aiki training.
I also know such people in Aikido and I'm very proud of time spent training with them. They have awesome skills and are great martial artists....but I feel they would have benefitted from the training I've received from my Internals guide. If nothing else their teaching would have been improved had they accessed the solo work as guidelines.
I also think they would have embraced the training .....no one is saying its a new invention...certainly not the people I've trained with. Its just not deployed throughout modern Aikido....not saying there aren't pockets of it -- there may well be....but it does indeed seem to have been lost...perhaps not adequate to peoples needs.
Face the fact that those names were in the right place, right time? What fact? Not good enough for me. Why should we accept an inferior level? At a time when so much information is available and people are willing to open up and share more.
Unfortunately we go back continually to not knowing what we don't know...and when someone offers information they are deluged with negativity.
I barely post here these days.....few of the IP crowd do. Its not worth the effort but this post on the back of Jons defence of Aiki has triggered this.
Doubtless I'll regret it and sink back to reading with despair shortly.
Quote:
Igor Vojnović wrote: View Post
Also if there is some midpoint, using some amount of Aiki for regular external training, does it actually make any valuable difference? I mean if somebody attacks me from behind for a choke, or if i spar with a stricker, does that low level have any value in a conflict situation like that?
Sure -- power goes up, ability to cope with incoming power goes up. You still need strategy, tactics, a fighters mind and so on. Aiki alone is a skill, the icing on the cake from our art. As Jon Reading has said it doesn't make you invincible.
A punch in the face is still a punch in the face -- it hurts.
Bottom line is people don't know what they don't know....doubtless this post will also be ripped to shreds by some and embraced by others.
Is Aiki/IP worth it? Go train with someone that can demonstrate it, has students that can demonstrate it and can explain it then you'll know.

I've been on multiple seminars with many different people experiencing Aiki/IP......99% have loved it and the way its taught. Doesn't mean they'll all continue with it...its hard work.....but none of them come back here and cut it up because they know.
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Old 02-16-2017, 08:35 AM   #12
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Re: Are you invincible if you possess Aiki?

Invincible? Don't have Aiki (yet) so don't know, but probably not, Aiki is a skill (mental/physical) set ...
Is it worth it? Depends what you want out of your training. For me, (the exploration/pursuit) is ...

Lynn Seiser PhD
Yondan Aikido & FMA/JKD
We do not rise to the level of our expectations, but fall to the level of our training. Train well. KWATZ!
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Old 02-16-2017, 12:41 PM   #13
GovernorSilver
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Re: Are you invincible if you possess Aiki?

Quote:
Igor Vojnović wrote: View Post
I never heard of a similar situation so i wouldn't know.
I have, at least in the form of epic virtual combat in these forums.
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Old 02-23-2017, 02:18 PM   #14
MrIggy
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Re: Are you invincible if you possess Aiki?

Quote:
Daren Sims wrote: View Post
Is that really all you want to know Igor? If it is, why have you followed up with your own personal point of view?
Are you interested in the answer or not? You open from a position of not knowing about Aiki/IP.....yet still seem to offer your opinions on it.
Correct. There are very few people who have it. There are many that think they have it......and don't know what they don't know.
There are leaders in the field though, their names are not hard to find and there are more and more courses where these people teach.
In sharing this information a lot of ivory towers have been broken and a lot of ego's bruised.
Mine was.
I asked the same questions as you on Aikiweb 6, 7, 8 years ago....I argued with Mike Sigman, with Dan Harden because I didn't know what they were talking about and persisted in pushing my ideas back at them. Its no wonder they got frustrated.
But I made the effort to get to a seminar.....and the truth was instantly available.
I see exactly same thing today..... Jon Reading posts something to continue to share....and gets responses from people agreeing with him when the clearly don't know what he's trying to say....or even congratulating him on correcting the flaws in his Aikido practice while implying they of course have no need of such improvements because their Aikido is perfect.
Yes -- it does take a long time to develop. Doing Aikido forms is one thing. Doing them with Aiki is another. What do you want? A lifetime pursuit of perfection or a 10 week course in self-defence?
And there are degrees of aiki ...even a little starts to take practice from empty forms to something more...
This isn't just my opinion, this is the general assessment of affairs surrounding the matter of Aiki, as written here and elsewhere. Even you pointed out general specifications of the matter. I can't argue about such a matter that i don't have any firsthand knowledge but also, as you pointed out, not even those who have much more knowledge can rationalize it to a degree of general realization and agreement. That's the whole point of my questions, are you invincible if you posses Aiki, and if not is it actually worth it then. That is in direct relation with your question, the last bold sentence, i can take a 10 week course and learn more relevant things from that then a "life time pursuit of "perfection". Not to mention that i can take the jujutsu aspect of Aikido or Daito ryu and in let's say 4-5 years take it to a serious degree of perfection. And not just me off course.

Quote:
Boo hoo! Thats a terrible shame....... What the heck. If you want to do something ....and you want to excel at it .....you will eat bitter. Those that aspire to excellence.....work hard for it. Period. Sometimes that means doing something thats not adequate to your needs. Either accept that your needs mean you have to set different targets. Or get some new needs.
When i mean needs i mean needs to achieve the goal at hand. In the old days even Takeda taught people according to their personal, mostly physical, needs. How much of that is currently going on and how much is just the adaptation of an generally accepted mold, that doesn't actually fit everyone's needs?

Quote:
well...this issue really is that it has to be felt. Stick a video of regular Aikido up on Youtube....leave it open for comments.....and expect a flood of teenagers and keyboard warriors to rip it to shreds.
Even worse for the solo training thats a defining part of Aiki/IP.
I am not concerned with idiots on youtube.

Quote:
Separate training method needed? Well yes....and no. In my experience the solo work is essential for rewiring the body & mind....but it can still be practiced in regular waza. Anyone that trains with me now compared to 5 years ago will feel the difference.... I know why that is and who deserves the credit.
So certain levels of Aiki can still be achieved through regular training. Is it on a satisfactory level, for you personally, and in general with the concept of Aiki to which you have been presented to?

Quote:
You don't need regular external training? Well remove external and just consider the training. I train with Dan Harden so can't speak of other names in this field but Dan has a progression from solo training through to fighting using Aiki/IP. So you don't have to abandon the paired waza training.....but it will change as your body changes.
And does that fighting include the waza techniques of Aikido or Daito ryu or can any technique be adaptable to Aiki? Again do you actually need the waza or any technique at all, as a vessel, for the proper "use" of Aiki or is just your body enough?

Quote:
I also know such people in Aikido and I'm very proud of time spent training with them. They have awesome skills and are great martial artists....but I feel they would have benefitted from the training I've received from my Internals guide. If nothing else their teaching would have been improved had they accessed the solo work as guidelines.
I also think they would have embraced the training .....no one is saying its a new invention...certainly not the people I've trained with. Its just not deployed throughout modern Aikido....not saying there aren't pockets of it -- there may well be....but it does indeed seem to have been lost...perhaps not adequate to peoples needs.
So you are saying that in any instance it is worth it. The unfortunate thing is that certain Shihan's either spread incomplete knowledge or it wasn't understood on a proper level among their students so everybody else down the drain didn't get enough pieces to grasp the actual idea behind it all. Take for instance Hiroshi Tada, although he is a formidable Aikidoka, his way of teaching is basically "My way or the highway." and that's if you can grasp what "his way" represents.

Quote:
Face the fact that those names were in the right place, right time? What fact? Not good enough for me. Why should we accept an inferior level? At a time when so much information is available and people are willing to open up and share more.
Unfortunately we go back continually to not knowing what we don't know
...and when someone offers information they are deluged with negativity.
I barely post here these days.....few of the IP crowd do. Its not worth the effort but this post on the back of Jons defence of Aiki has triggered this.
Doubtless I'll regret it and sink back to reading with despair shortly.
One of the problems is that there is so much information out there that it's hard to discern which information is useful, in general as well on a personal level, and which is not. If you may please first answer the questions i asked before your getting back in reading with despair, i would be very grateful.

Quote:
Sure -- power goes up, ability to cope with incoming power goes up. You still need strategy, tactics, a fighters mind and so on. Aiki alone is a skill, the icing on the cake from our art. As Jon Reading has said it doesn't make you invincible.
So technically speaking Aiki is an amalgamation of various exercises not a means to itself? Meaning whether i develop it through solo or waza or "something in between" training it's manifestation will be in accordance to what and how i have trained?

Quote:
A punch in the face is still a punch in the face -- it hurts.
Bottom line is people don't know what they don't know....doubtless this post will also be ripped to shreds by some and embraced by others.
Is Aiki/IP worth it? Go train with someone that can demonstrate it, has students that can demonstrate it and can explain it then you'll know.
Now this is what i mean.

Quote:
I've been on multiple seminars with many different people experiencing Aiki/IP......99% have loved it and the way its taught. Doesn't mean they'll all continue with it...its hard work.....but none of them come back here and cut it up because they know.
That's what i needed to know. Thank you.
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Old 02-23-2017, 02:21 PM   #15
MrIggy
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Re: Are you invincible if you possess Aiki?

Quote:
Jon Reading wrote: View Post
You are not invincible. Aiki is not magic.

Many of the people we value in the aiki arts possessed strong aiki skills. Of late, the number of contemporary people with similar reputations has dwindled. Internal power is not for everyone and I don't begrudge anyone either way. I have touched too many people with good ip/aiki, so I will say it's worth it.
When you say not for everyone, do you mean not everyone wishes to achieve it or can achieve it?
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Old 02-24-2017, 07:13 AM   #16
Dazzler
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Re: Are you invincible if you possess Aiki?

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Igor Vojnović wrote: View Post
When you say not for everyone, do you mean not everyone wishes to achieve it or can achieve it?
Can't speak for Jon....but my view everyone can achieve Aiki....but not everyone is prepared to do the work. Many like the aerobics, big throws, putting their instructor on a pedestal or just training the way they do because they love it just the way it is.

Accepting that the instructors that have gone before may not have transferred everything also means accepting that we the students aren't quite as special ....or as good as we thought. Not everyone can do this.

As for the work....Heck.....Rewiring the body and mind responses is hard. I often feel like giving up and going back to training how I used to because I suck so bad.

I doubt very much I'll ever get to the level I'd like too. But right now something in me says theres still time to travel a long way down the road.
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Old 02-24-2017, 07:18 AM   #17
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Re: Are you invincible if you possess Aiki?

Quote:
Igor Vojnović wrote: View Post
When you say not for everyone, do you mean not everyone wishes to achieve it or can achieve it?
Yes. Both.

Not everyone will sacrifice what is needed to learn IP/Aiki. It's a lot of frustration, a lot of boring exercises, a lot of failure. I know this sounds harsh, but why don't we all look like swimsuit models? We know exercise is good, proper diet, no vice behavior... We are all individuals with the freedom to decide what we want to do with our training.

Not everyone has access to the education and resources to learn IP/Aiki. So there are some obstacles to getting access to learn this training. You work with what you got and many of our teachers "don't got" so that puts pressure on people looking to train to find access to a resource that is going to teach.

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Old 02-24-2017, 07:19 AM   #18
Demetrio Cereijo
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Re: Are you invincible if you possess Aiki?

Igor, is not that complicated.

Aiki is retraining the body via set of exercises, it makes your aikido better or at least closer to the original aikido: what the Founder did.

Fighting is another thing and requires not only strength (internal, external or a combination of both) but also strategy, timing, mindset , viable techniques (those that not depend on partner collusion for them to work) and a lot other things. A body with aiki is useful for fighting but the other elements are also required, especially if your opponent knows what he is doing.

This kind of power is not for everyone because it requires lots of time and effort and, for performing mainstream aikido, is not really needed. Thousands of people are doing aikido without internal power and they're doing fine.

So, if you want to do aikido the most closely possible to what Ueshiba did, internal power is needed. If you want to do contemporary aikido then do what your instructors ask you to do and if you want to learn to fight... well, there are lots of places where you can learn how to fight.
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Old 02-24-2017, 07:23 AM   #19
grondahl
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Re: Are you invincible if you possess Aiki?

Most people just like aikido because it´s a more interesting form of social excercise than ex body pump or aerobics. You get some excercise and can grab a beer afterwards.

I have a very hard time seeing that doing IP-work will be a mainstream thing anytime soon.

Last edited by grondahl : 02-24-2017 at 07:25 AM.
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Old 02-24-2017, 07:51 AM   #20
Dazzler
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Re: Are you invincible if you possess Aiki?

Quote:
Igor Vojnović wrote: View Post
....... That's the whole point of my questions, are you invincible if you posses Aiki, and if not is it actually worth it then.
Simple answer is No. Alrready said by others. O’Sensei is dead. Mike Tyson and Ali both got defeated. UFC guys lose every other week.
No one and nothing is invincible.
Millions of guys play football. How many are lionel Messi? ....
So whether its worth it is down to the individual.
20 years into Aikido this was the only way I’d found of continuing to grow in depth. Breath was easy....maybe more weapons.....maybe more techniques imported from other teachers. Whatever.....but this stuff......made sense of those that I hold in most respect. It was the final, hardest bit that is best learned through repetitive solo work....which in time floods into waza.
Quote:
Igor Vojnović wrote: View Post
.......I can take the jujutsu aspect of Aikido or Daito ryu and in let's say 4-5 years take it to a serious degree of perfection. And not just me off course.
Ok........good luck with that. I thought I was pretty tidy.....then had my eyes opened by some international class performers. What I thought was perfection was somewhat short.

Quote:
Igor Vojnović wrote: View Post
.......So certain levels of Aiki can still be achieved through regular training. Is it on a satisfactory level, for you personally, and in general with the concept of Aiki to which you have been presented to?
Well yes....I’ve touched people and its clear they feel different. The “elephant” of aikido is posted somewhere in related threads and lots of people that have hung around Aikido long enough have developed some of it. Put enough monkeys behind keyboards and the rewards for correct movement and feeling are bound to steer some in the right direction. For me personally though I feel this is the slow boat to china. Working specifically with Aiki/IP guru types had given much greater progress already than I feel I personally would have achieved.

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Igor Vojnović wrote: View Post
.......And does that fighting include the waza techniques of Aikido or Daito ryu or can any technique be adaptable to Aiki? Again do you actually need the waza or any technique at all, as a vessel, for the proper "use" of Aiki or is just your body enough?
Even before Aiki/IP training I’d have answered same thing here. The techniques aren’t really techniques at all...they are tools to learn how to use your mind and body....Aiki/IP just added a whole new dimension to what the toolset can teach. In fighting there is no attachment to specific techniques....my instructor said “I move and something happens”....Bruce Lee endorsed “no fixed forms”.
All I say is those fighting with Aiki seem impossible to stop, read , block , hit or anything. Check out Alan Beebe “when I met Dan Harden” thread for his interesting experience if its still available.

Quote:
Igor Vojnović wrote: View Post
.......So you are saying that in any instance it is worth it.
Yes.

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Igor Vojnović wrote: View Post
.......
So technically speaking Aiki is an amalgamation of various exercises not a means to itself? Meaning whether i develop it through solo or waza or "something in between" training it's manifestation will be in accordance to what and how i have trained?
Not really. Using my own words I’d now say Aiki is the manipulation of ones body through utilisation of opposing forces evoked by the mind ;-) Am trying really hard there not to use my instructors exact words but it does not seem right to use his words and claim them myself. The point is that Aiki is a quality of feeling or body control and not an amalgamation of anything. Once you’ve developed it you can use it regardless of how you trained to achieve it.

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Igor Vojnović wrote: View Post
.......That's what i needed to know. Thank you.
Cool. In return ....thank you for asking about it. Its kind of gone off the radar here but clearly by the quality of some of the posts in recent threads it is gathering momentum and recognition as something that we should be considerate of if we are serious about our art.
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Old 02-24-2017, 09:09 AM   #21
Demetrio Cereijo
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Re: Are you invincible if you possess Aiki?

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Peter Gröndahl wrote: View Post
I have a very hard time seeing that doing IP-work will be a mainstream thing anytime soon.
In aikido can become mainstream in a short time. There's only a handful org running shihan needed.

In less hierarchical and more performance oriented systems like sports... not going to happen.
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Old 02-25-2017, 09:09 AM   #22
MrIggy
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Re: Are you invincible if you possess Aiki?

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Jon Reading wrote: View Post
Yes. Both.

Not everyone will sacrifice what is needed to learn IP/Aiki. It's a lot of frustration, a lot of boring exercises, a lot of failure. I know this sounds harsh, but why don't we all look like swimsuit models? We know exercise is good, proper diet, no vice behavior... We are all individuals with the freedom to decide what we want to do with our training.

Not everyone has access to the education and resources to learn IP/Aiki. So there are some obstacles to getting access to learn this training. You work with what you got and many of our teachers "don't got" so that puts pressure on people looking to train to find access to a resource that is going to teach.
I would say this is the biggest problem. All of the knowledge in Aikido concerning the IP/Aiki has been marginalized so much that it's difficult for people to even grasp the concept behind it. The fact is that they are reluctant to sacrifice their time for something that is considered "magic or circus tricks". Also the idea that they can "sense some of it" in teachers who spent a lot years training in Aikido, but not fully developing it off course, usually means that they accept it just as a side effect of training rather then a skill set of it's that needs developing.
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Old 02-25-2017, 10:27 AM   #23
grondahl
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Re: Are you invincible if you possess Aiki?

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Igor Vojnović wrote: View Post
The fact is that they are reluctant to sacrifice their time for something that is considered "magic or circus tricks".
The ones that have felt seems to be convinced that it´s not magic. The ones that haven´t felt it argue about it online.
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Old 02-25-2017, 11:30 AM   #24
Demetrio Cereijo
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Re: Are you invincible if you possess Aiki?

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Peter Gröndahl wrote: View Post
The ones that have felt seems to be convinced that it´s not magic. The ones that haven´t felt it argue about it online.
Maybe when the IP proponents switch from "stupid jin tricks" mode to "winning olympic medals" mode all this arguing could stop.
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Old 02-25-2017, 12:58 PM   #25
Rupert Atkinson
 
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Re: Are you invincible if you possess Aiki?

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Igor Vojnović wrote: View Post
So in general, with all of the commotion regarding the elusive "Aiki" (internal strength, power, jin or whatever), all i wan't to know is, is it worth it?
Most definitely. Just start the journey. I have been searching for quite some time. It is a tricky road, no one likes it, so you just have to keep going. I am certainly no master, probably never will be, but I have come across some amazing stuff that I now try to apply in my waza. First you have to seek and experience it. Then try to suss it. Then try to make it work in your waza. Easier said than done, but it is the whole point of Aikido, is it not? I would say - some of the stuff I have discovered I had kinda touched upon already - so the danger is to say, "Ah, yeah, I know that!" and dismiss it. This is what most people do. Just ... do it!

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