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Old 02-07-2017, 10:17 AM   #1
langenoir
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What do you say when you see Aikido done like this?

I mean, I don't know about you guys, but that's not the Aikido I'm learning.

https://www.facebook.com/14560270779...3235258594238/
http://theskepdick.com/post/14338569...e-of-bullshido
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Old 02-07-2017, 12:43 PM   #2
Michael Hackett
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Re: What do you say when you see Aikido done like this?

What do they call that stuff that is created after a horse eats a bunch of alfalfa?

Michael
"Leave the gun. Bring the cannoli."
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Old 02-07-2017, 12:46 PM   #3
Michael Hackett
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Freaky! Re: What do you say when you see Aikido done like this?

What do you call the stuff that is created when a horse eats a bunch of alfalfa?

Michael
"Leave the gun. Bring the cannoli."
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Old 02-07-2017, 02:05 PM   #4
fatebass21
 
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Re: What do you say when you see Aikido done like this?

The funniest part is at 30 and 45 seconds....the girls in the background

Chris Sawyer
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Old 02-07-2017, 03:59 PM   #5
Michael Hackett
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Re: What do you say when you see Aikido done like this?

Yes, the women in the background were entertaining too.

Michael
"Leave the gun. Bring the cannoli."
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Old 02-08-2017, 04:32 AM   #6
PeterR
 
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Re: What do you say when you see Aikido done like this?

Put someone in a hakama and you assume its aikido. Does anyone know the background here.

Peter Rehse Shodokan Aikido
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Old 02-08-2017, 04:38 AM   #7
grondahl
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Re: What do you say when you see Aikido done like this?

Looks like Watanabe with the mustache.
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Old 02-08-2017, 06:25 AM   #8
Carl Thompson
 
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Re: What do you say when you see Aikido done like this?

Quote:
Peter Gröndahl wrote: View Post
Looks like Watanabe with the mustache.
Yes, it's 'the Jedi' Watanabe Sensei, who I believe is now retired. I attended his class in the Hombu once
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Old 02-08-2017, 07:32 AM   #9
PeterR
 
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Re: What do you say when you see Aikido done like this?

Shudder

Peter Rehse Shodokan Aikido
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Old 02-08-2017, 08:38 AM   #10
hunglea
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Re: What do you say when you see Aikido done like this?

Never met this Sensei. There's a lot of strange things in this world. Does it look silly? Yes. Martially viable/effective? ....

Anyway, it would still be interesting to experience first hand whatever (if anything) it is that's going on there between the instructor and student. Skepticism is healthy, but so is willingness for "hands on" experience if it's available and won't physically harm me. Pun not intended.
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Old 02-08-2017, 10:48 AM   #11
Dan Rubin
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Re: What do you say when you see Aikido done like this?

Aikido Journal presents Nobuyuki Watanabe, 8th dan, at 1987 All-Japan Aikido Demonstration
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qL-Iv_VDQ-Q

"Uploaded on Oct 21, 2010

"Nobuyuki Watanabe is an 8th dan instructor at the Aikikai Hombu Dojo in Tokyo, Japan. He is known for his soft, no-touch style of aikido that leaves viewers scratching their heads about his technique. This particular demonstration is closer to a more traditional style where the usual aikido techniques are easily recognizable."
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Old 02-08-2017, 11:26 AM   #12
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Re: What do you say when you see Aikido done like this?

Thanks for the link Dan. It makes a bit more sense now.

Chris Sawyer
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Old 02-08-2017, 01:14 PM   #13
grondahl
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Re: What do you say when you see Aikido done like this?

There is even a IHTBF Column about him: http://www.aikiweb.com/forums/showthread.php?t=20997
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Old 02-08-2017, 03:54 PM   #14
Peter Goldsbury
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Re: What do you say when you see Aikido done like this?

I took uke for Watanabe Shihan a few years ago. There is a comment right after Ellis Amdur's IHTBF article and this bears close reading. My aikido was once calle rambo aikido, not by Watanabe but by Asai, also mentioned in the comment. (Rambo does not refer to the cinema character, but is a Japanese term [乱暴], meaning wild and violent.)

It should also be realized that some people play to the gallery at the annual All-Japan Aikido Demonstration and do things that would never be tolerated in a dojo.

P A Goldsbury
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Old 02-08-2017, 04:22 PM   #15
Dan Rubin
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Re: What do you say when you see Aikido done like this?

I've known a couple of teachers whose students went to extremes to take miracle ukemi, or to closely follow instructions for questionable budo. The teachers rewarded the students with smiles of approval, but I felt like those teachers were really laughing at them.
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Old 02-08-2017, 05:04 PM   #16
Hilary
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Re: What do you say when you see Aikido done like this?

In the dojo I would bow out and walk back to the dressing room. Here I would say that watching (even the 20 seconds I viewed) this was a colossal waste of life, and for that matter why am I even replying to this crap? Well I already logged on and wrote it, so I will leave it, but I leave mourning my lost minutes.
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Old 02-09-2017, 05:08 AM   #17
StefanHultberg
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Re: What do you say when you see Aikido done like this?

Quote:
Carl Thompson wrote: View Post
Yes, it's 'the Jedi' Watanabe Sensei, who I believe is now retired. I attended his class in the Hombu once
What was your experience of it ???

Many regards

Stefan
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Old 02-09-2017, 06:46 AM   #18
lbb
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Re: What do you say when you see Aikido done like this?

I would say, why are you wasting your time even talking about it? Seriously. The only time i see aikido like this is when someone posts a youtube link saying "ha ha ha this is stupid". Why even waste the click?
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Old 02-09-2017, 09:40 AM   #19
langenoir
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Re: What do you say when you see Aikido done like this?

I guess the point of this is because I saw it online the other day and got really frustrated. I'm new to Aikido, but not martial arts. It just gets frustrating when I'm the net and I see people making fun of something I'm working hard at and I thought maybe the forum would say something positive to take my mind off it.
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Old 02-09-2017, 10:18 AM   #20
shuckser
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Re: What do you say when you see Aikido done like this?

If you want something positive, well I guess you could say the people in the video are having fun.

Are you having fun?
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Old 02-09-2017, 11:50 AM   #21
GovernorSilver
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Re: What do you say when you see Aikido done like this?

Quote:
Phil Johnston wrote: View Post
I guess the point of this is because I saw it online the other day and got really frustrated. I'm new to Aikido, but not martial arts. It just gets frustrating when I'm the net and I see people making fun of something I'm working hard at and I thought maybe the forum would say something positive to take my mind off it.
I'm new to Aikido as well.

My first impression was they were all just hamming it for the camera - a "piss-take" as some one call it.

The background info revealed in the IHTBF thread - by Ellis Amdur, no less! - puts it in perspective quite nicely.

There are plenty of good Aikido dojos out there. The more I go to class, the more I realize how there is to learn and get a handle on. I find less and less time to waste looking for "bad" Aikido.

Last edited by GovernorSilver : 02-09-2017 at 11:52 AM.
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Old 02-09-2017, 01:19 PM   #22
hunglea
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Re: What do you say when you see Aikido done like this?

Quote:
Phil Johnston wrote: View Post
I guess the point of this is because I saw it online the other day and got really frustrated. I'm new to Aikido, but not martial arts. It just gets frustrating when I'm the net and I see people making fun of something I'm working hard at and I thought maybe the forum would say something positive to take my mind off it.
I think you will continue to get frustrated if you invest in/pay attention to negative comments on youtube or similar places. Find what you enjoy about the Aikido practice and keep on going.

I am still very new to Aikido as well but have been fortunate enough to have met some amazingly skilled people. I am not discouraged by video demos such as the one in this thread of Watanabe Shihan. Actually, I would truly like to have a first hand experience (with Watanabe Shihan) if possible because you never know what one can learn so yes it has to be felt (IHTBF).
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Old 02-10-2017, 01:55 AM   #23
Cass
 
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Re: What do you say when you see Aikido done like this?

I am curious about the background of Watanabe shihan and other senseis that teach the "soft" style of Aikido and how they came to this style. I was reading not long ago about Endo Seishiro because he had a transition from a harder style of Aikido in his youth to a softer one after a bad injury to his shoulder at 30 once Yamaguchi sensei said to him "You’ve been doing aikido for 10 years now, but now you have only your left arm to use, what are you going to do?". What I observe now with a lot of softer Aikido is that it is the yin to harder styles yang. Whilst in other types of Aikido you can force and bumble your way through a technique with strength and speed, with softer styles there is a lot of focus on connection with your partner and balance, you can't really "wing it". That is not to say that I understand it entirely, as often times like in this video it seems to my untrained eye that the technique no longer exists after a certain point, without contact or much movement from nage. Yet the two senseis I have heard of and seen that demonstrate (Endo and Watanabe) are both 8th Dan with the Aikikai which I find curious. To obtain such a high rank they must know their stuff and have contributed greatly to Aikido's progression, yet their Aikido style is so controversial.

Also I would urge people though to maintain an open mind. Aikido is all about unity and harmony on the path that we all follow and we should maintain an aiki approach even to things that do not align with us on a personal level (applicable both to "soft" aikido and "harder" styles that lean toward aikijutsu). I am constantly surprised that the mindset of others under this art is to react aggressively toward things that are different than what they know. Try to be better than the youtube commenters that comment on all aikido videos along the lines of how the art is in general "bullshit" and "not effective". As for me, my sensei teaches a very different style to this softer Aikido but when Seishiro shihan comes here in a few months I am strongly considering attending his seminar, I don't know if it is for me (or if it will even help me at this early stage) but better to keep an open mind, no?



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Old 02-10-2017, 02:20 AM   #24
StefanHultberg
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Re: What do you say when you see Aikido done like this?

Quote:
Peter A Goldsbury wrote: View Post
I took uke for Watanabe Shihan a few years ago. There is a comment right after Ellis Amdur's IHTBF article and this bears close reading. My aikido was once calle rambo aikido, not by Watanabe but by Asai, also mentioned in the comment. (Rambo does not refer to the cinema character, but is a Japanese term [乱暴], meaning wild and violent.)

It should also be realized that some people play to the gallery at the annual All-Japan Aikido Demonstration and do things that would never be tolerated in a dojo.
Dear Sir

I would love to hear more about your experiences when taking ukemi from various honoured teachers. I have speculated much about the (sort of) topic of this thread and also plagued the aikiweb community about my thoughts on aikido and time - which is just a metaphor for the investigation into "true reality" by means of aikido. "True reality" can be understood (in a very limited way) through theoretical physics, aikido, meditation, mathematics, perhaps altered states of consciousness in an ayahuasca-hut in Peru. Many avenues and many possibilities. Many pitfalls.

To me aikido has become the main vessel towards insight, illumination - minute as it might be.

When it comes to the clips shown in this thread there is one that seems more playful and one that seems more martial. I would love to know more about the setting, the situation. Even more I would love to feel being thrown by someone who is a, sort of, no touch supersensei. Is it true? Does some of it work?? Is there anything there at all???? Do I have to become more sensitive??? If I become more sensitive to the jedi-style aikido - maybe it could make me more of a martial artist (in the true martial sense) even if the jedi style be completely hopeless in a "martial sense".

Could training in what we see here provide more insight on the marvellous workings of ki? Perhaps.

Now, back to the start - what did the ukemi feel like. Have you experience no touch throws - what happened? What was it like?

Oh, to go back in time and be thrown by O Sensei

Many many regards & thank you for your time.

Stefan Hultberg
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Old 02-10-2017, 02:50 AM   #25
StefanHultberg
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Re: What do you say when you see Aikido done like this?

Quote:
Cassia Rose Heatley wrote: View Post
I am curious about the background of Watanabe shihan and other senseis that teach the "soft" style of Aikido and how they came to this style. I was reading not long ago about Endo Seishiro because he had a transition from a harder style of Aikido in his youth to a softer one after a bad injury to his shoulder at 30 once Yamaguchi sensei said to him "You've been doing aikido for 10 years now, but now you have only your left arm to use, what are you going to do?". What I observe now with a lot of softer Aikido is that it is the yin to harder styles yang. Whilst in other types of Aikido you can force and bumble your way through a technique with strength and speed, with softer styles there is a lot of focus on connection with your partner and balance, you can't really "wing it". That is not to say that I understand it entirely, as often times like in this video it seems to my untrained eye that the technique no longer exists after a certain point, without contact or much movement from nage. Yet the two senseis I have heard of and seen that demonstrate (Endo and Watanabe) are both 8th Dan with the Aikikai which I find curious. To obtain such a high rank they must know their stuff and have contributed greatly to Aikido's progression, yet their Aikido style is so controversial.

Also I would urge people though to maintain an open mind. Aikido is all about unity and harmony on the path that we all follow and we should maintain an aiki approach even to things that do not align with us on a personal level (applicable both to "soft" aikido and "harder" styles that lean toward aikijutsu). I am constantly surprised that the mindset of others under this art is to react aggressively toward things that are different than what they know. Try to be better than the youtube commenters that comment on all aikido videos along the lines of how the art is in general "bullshit" and "not effective". As for me, my sensei teaches a very different style to this softer Aikido but when Seishiro shihan comes here in a few months I am strongly considering attending his seminar, I don't know if it is for me (or if it will even help me at this early stage) but better to keep an open mind, no?
Thank you for expressing many of my thoughts much much better than what I would have been able to myself. Let's try to maintain open minds

All the best

Stefan Hultberg
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