Welcome to AikiWeb Aikido Information
AikiWeb: The Source for Aikido Information
AikiWeb's principal purpose is to serve the Internet community as a repository and dissemination point for aikido information.

Sections
home
aikido articles
columns

Discussions
forums
aikiblogs

Databases
dojo search
seminars
image gallery
supplies
links directory

Reviews
book reviews
video reviews
dvd reviews
equip. reviews

News
submit
archive

Miscellaneous
newsletter
rss feeds
polls
about

Follow us on



Home > AikiWeb Aikido Forums
Go Back   AikiWeb Aikido Forums > General

Hello and thank you for visiting AikiWeb, the world's most active online Aikido community! This site is home to over 22,000 aikido practitioners from around the world and covers a wide range of aikido topics including techniques, philosophy, history, humor, beginner issues, the marketplace, and more.

If you wish to join in the discussions or use the other advanced features available, you will need to register first. Registration is absolutely free and takes only a few minutes to complete so sign up today!

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 11-08-2016, 08:22 AM   #1
Peter Boylan
Join Date: Aug 2001
Posts: 288
United_States
Offline
Forging the Spirit?

We talk a lot about mental states like mushin and fudoshin being important in budo. We don't talk about how to develop them though. I believe there is a path to developing these mental states embedded in traditional budo training. I explore that idea in this blog post
http://budobum.blogspot.com/2016/11/forging-spirit.html

How do you work to develop forge the spirit an develop high level mental states?

Peter Boylan
Mugendo Budogu LLC
Budo Books, Videos, Equipment from Japan
http://www.budogu.com
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-16-2016, 12:24 PM   #2
mathewjgano
 
mathewjgano's Avatar
Dojo: Tsubaki Kannagara Jinja Aikidojo; Himeji Shodokan Dojo
Location: Renton
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 2,225
United_States
Offline
Re: Forging the Spirit?

Thank you for sharing that, Peter! I use visualization and metaphor a lot and tend to think of two basic components, which might be described as the furnace and the folding.
In focusing on the furnace, I'm trying to develop intensity of purpose, of stoking the fires of intention toward a more explosive pressure. It's a highly emotional and chaotic feeling that needs to be balanced/complimented by a solid crucible or furnace. It's as if I'm dialing up my emotions/intentions, feeling their intensity expand until it fills me up, waiting to explode/spring into action. But the furnace itself requires cooling or it becomes an unstable process, so there's an interesting contrast of intentions, of amping up but then also rooting it in a calm, cool stillness. The mind bounces back and forth between the two, and regularly gets stuck to various degrees in a kind of fascination for either. Come to think of it, there's a folding process just in that. Then comes how to move, the folding of the body...so I suppose in one I'm working on folding the intent/mind, and then also working on how that applies to the folding of the body to create something like the bright and shining steel which is both flexible and "hard."
On the mat it's the repetition you describe: exploring the form with various partners, each of whom have different emphases to help me draw attention to one area or another, back and forth, over and over again. I train so irregularly that the misogi quality of removing impurity stands out a lot. I remember when I trained several days a week I always felt good after training, but it sort of blended together...granted I was about 20, so that might have had an effect in how I was able to perceive it. Now that I'm 38 and train irregularly, it's...effervescent. The difference before training and after is fascinating in how profound it feels. I can go from feeling like I want to crawl into a hole and come out of training feeling like I'm going to change the world and make friends at every turn...it's amazing how the mind and body affect each other.
In my personal experience, I have always felt a very strong sense of self-consciousness when I step onto the mat: I'm afraid of wasting people's time. And over the course of my haphazard training, I don't want to hold back the people who have been training consistently; it has been a source of reluctance for me. Happily, through that process of forging the spirit, I have come to accept my "impurities" as part of the process, and it has really allowed me to enjoy training that much more, which I hope has also allowed me to be more fully engaged from the beginning of class, helping others in our shared forging processes.
...I think the recognition of improvement, for me at least, has had a big impact on what has kept me at it, forging ahead, as Dan described. Life happens, and stopping something isn't always a cessation of forging, but when the repetition/folding ceases to have a sense of benefit, I think it's either time to look deeper, or even take a break to get a fresher perspective...but that's the trick, isn't it? It's easy when we have compelling reasons to do something, and when those natural motivators aren't there, it's time for reevaluation of some sort.

Last edited by mathewjgano : 11-16-2016 at 12:32 PM.

Gambarimashyo!
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-20-2016, 02:03 PM   #3
dps
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 2,300
Offline
Re: Forging the Spirit?

" Forging is a manufacturing process involving the shaping of metal using localized compressive forces. The blows are delivered with a hammer (often a power hammer) or a die. Forging is often classified according to the temperature at which it is performed: cold forging (a type of cold working), warm forging, or hot forging (a type of hot working).......

"https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forging

You do not need a furnace to forge

A furnance makes the forging quicker and easier.

You can cold forge ( no heat ) but it takes longer.

dps
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-21-2016, 10:08 PM   #4
Eamon
Dojo: Aikido of Connecticut/Manchester, CT
Location: Manchester, CT
Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 9
United_States
Offline
Re: Forging the Spirit?

Quote:
Peter Boylan wrote: View Post
We talk a lot about mental states like mushin and fudoshin being important in budo. We don't talk about how to develop them though. I believe there is a path to developing these mental states embedded in traditional budo training. I explore that idea in this blog post
http://budobum.blogspot.com/2016/11/forging-spirit.html

How do you work to develop forge the spirit an develop high level mental states?
Inspiring blog post. Thanks for sharing. I will share this with my son.
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-30-2016, 07:20 PM   #5
Adam Huss
 
Adam Huss's Avatar
Location: Ohio
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 709
United_States
Offline
Re: Forging the Spirit?

Quote:
Peter Boylan wrote: View Post
We talk a lot about mental states like mushin and fudoshin being important in budo. We don't talk about how to develop them though. I believe there is a path to developing these mental states embedded in traditional budo training. I explore that idea in this blog post
http://budobum.blogspot.com/2016/11/forging-spirit.html

How do you work to develop forge the spirit an develop high level mental states?
Push yourself beyond physical limitations you previously held. Do this as frequently as you can. Train well after your body has given up, where 'something else' has to take over. Sure, there are dangers inherent in this - injury, making mistakes, etc - but I am a believer that one can not truly grow without some element of risk at stake.

Are you reffering to the concept of tanren or maybe fudoshin with this topic? I am writting ronbun for fudoshin, so any discussion relating to that topic is of interest to me at this time.

Hope all is well, and happy new year, Boylan San!

Ichi Go, Ichi Ei!
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-03-2017, 07:30 PM   #6
Peter Boylan
Join Date: Aug 2001
Posts: 288
United_States
Offline
Re: Forging the Spirit?

Quote:
Adam Huss wrote: View Post
Push yourself beyond physical limitations you previously held. Do this as frequently as you can. Train well after your body has given up, where 'something else' has to take over. Sure, there are dangers inherent in this - injury, making mistakes, etc - but I am a believer that one can not truly grow without some element of risk at stake.

Are you reffering to the concept of tanren or maybe fudoshin with this topic? I am writting ronbun for fudoshin, so any discussion relating to that topic is of interest to me at this time.

Hope all is well, and happy new year, Boylan San!
Happy New Year Adam!!
This one was more about seishin tanren, developing all aspects of the spirit. For fudoshin, I hope this might be useful http://budobum.blogspot.com/2015/03/...-fudoshin.html

Everything has risks, including doing nothing. That has the risk of missing out on life.

Peter Boylan
Mugendo Budogu LLC
Budo Books, Videos, Equipment from Japan
http://www.budogu.com
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-03-2017, 08:35 PM   #7
Peter Goldsbury
  AikiWeb Forums Contributing Member
 
Peter Goldsbury's Avatar
Dojo: Hiroshima Kokusai Dojo
Location: Hiroshima, Japan
Join Date: Jul 2001
Posts: 2,202
Japan
Offline
Re: Forging the Spirit?

Quote:
Adam Huss wrote: View Post
Push yourself beyond physical limitations you previously held. Do this as frequently as you can. Train well after your body has given up, where 'something else' has to take over. Sure, there are dangers inherent in this - injury, making mistakes, etc - but I am a believer that one can not truly grow without some element of risk at stake.

Are you reffering to the concept of tanren or maybe fudoshin with this topic? I am writting ronbun for fudoshin, so any discussion relating to that topic is of interest to me at this time.

Hope all is well, and happy new year, Boylan San!
I saw this thread after I had posted in another thread, on aikido and health.

As I stated there, one of the activities I took up alongside aikido was cross-country running. I did it for many years and the only reason I stopped was arthritis in the knee joints, of which the original cause were injuries sustained during aikido training in the US.

Of course, I started when I was relatively young, but running is something youngsters are taught to do at school. I hated it then, but it became more attractive when I was a university student.

Despite the need for careful thinking about important matters like your age and general physical condition before you start—the shoes you wear, and the crucial importance of thorough physical preparation, running a marathon is a very good exercise in pushing yourself beyond the physical limitations you might think you have, especially if this involves running up and down hills.

I think there are many how-to-do books about running, such Christopher McDougall’s Born to Run. I did not read such books when I started, but one thing I did focus on was controlled breathing, by regulating breaths inhaled and exhaled according to the number of paces (normally three in, three out), but regardless of the gradient. This was extremely difficult to do in the beginning, but stood me in good stead later in the aikido dojo.

I have experienced the ‘highs’ involved in such activity, when everything is on auto-pilot: the pace is good, the breathing is good, everything is coordinated—and there is no thinking involved.

I suppose the closest thing to such intense exercise in a dojo is the activity beloved of Japanese university students called kakari-geiko. This is usually practiced at university gasshuku and involves relays of uke being thrown by the same person for a set number of times, usually the same uke for 10, 20 or 50 times, with replacements lining up to take their place and the number of times being gleefully counted in loud voices by the rest of the participants. The loud vocal accompaniment is intended as part of the tanren.

A distinctive feature of training at such gasshuku is the fact that the graduating 4th year students have to do this—and also change places and take ukemi. This is one way of allowing the more junior members to make things even.

P A Goldsbury
_______________________
Hiroshima, Japan
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-04-2017, 10:25 AM   #8
NagaBaba
 
NagaBaba's Avatar
Location: Wild, deep, deadly North
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 1,190
Offline
Re: Forging the Spirit?

Quote:
Peter A Goldsbury wrote: View Post
I suppose the closest thing to such intense exercise in a dojo is the activity beloved of Japanese university students called kakari-geiko. This is usually practiced at university gasshuku and involves relays of uke being thrown by the same person for a set number of times, usually the same uke for 10, 20 or 50 times, with replacements lining up to take their place and the number of times being gleefully counted in loud voices by the rest of the participants. The loud vocal accompaniment is intended as part of the tanren.

A distinctive feature of training at such gasshuku is the fact that the graduating 4th year students have to do this—and also change places and take ukemi. This is one way of allowing the more junior members to make things even.
The question is how you do it in actual aikido practice for everybody, not only to university students
?

From my point of view you have to do the techniques with all your power with big number of repetition. In the beginning I thought it is impossible, because most of the basic techniques contains the locks on the joints. And if you really want to throw somebody (誠心 -- sincerity and正心 - correct mind, righteous mind) the locks must be tight to control completely attacker, otherwise your technique depends of his good will and purification can't be realized.

Then I met late M.Kanai sensei. He developed the advanced techniques( or the application of the basics) where in the end of the technique you don't have a lock on particular joint, rather you are locking whole body of attacker so you can throw him with all your power(well may be except of shihonage, but even here there is a way to do it) . In the other hand attacker develops ability to safely receive such power by doing high flying break fall.

This way we could do forging spirit practice. I mean giving all your power and receiving such power. Because cooperation here is very limited the threat to your body appears, particularly at the high level of intensity, speed and power. Without such threat forging and purification can't take a place.

Usually it is done by doing 15 minutes the same technique( we change roles after 4 repetitions) which means that 4 times you give everything to throw somebody and then you receive everything he gives….and again, and again….after 15 minutes, sensei demonstrated another technique and we started again…
Purification aspect begins usually in the end of second hour of such practice in my case. But to clean your body completely I think you need 5 hours, which is often done during seminars.

Nagababa

ask for divine protection Ame no Murakumo Kuki Samuhara no Ryuo
  Reply With Quote

Please visit our sponsor:

AikiWeb Sponsored Links - Place your Aikido link here for only $10!



Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
106) The Warrior Spirit: July 2013 Marc Abrams External Aikido Blog Posts 0 07-01-2013 08:30 AM
The strength of the Japanese spirit Guillaume Erard External Aikido Blog Posts 0 02-27-2011 10:00 PM
Transmission, Inheritance, Emulation 14 Peter Goldsbury Columns 38 08-01-2009 12:19 AM
'Spirit Forging' Interpretation Dan Jones Language 8 01-08-2004 12:14 AM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 10:50 PM.



vBulletin Copyright © 2000-2017 Jelsoft Enterprises Limited
----------
Copyright 1997-2017 AikiWeb and its Authors, All Rights Reserved.
----------
For questions and comments about this website:
Send E-mail
plainlaid-picaresque outchasing-protistan explicantia-altarage seaford-stellionate