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Old 02-20-2016, 08:02 AM   #26
Bernd Lehnen
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Re: Am I Really Practicing Budo?

Quote:
Cliff Judge wrote: View Post
Budo is really not about changing the body, it's about changing the spirit. Its just like any other do in that regard - repetitive practice of technique to yield a change of the self to become a part of the essence of the ryu. In budo it is often but not exclusively through movement that one expresses the character or the ryu. The purpose of aiki is not to accomplish physical tasks but it is through a type of movement that one can be observed to embody the concept of aiki.

And like I said, there is something else that is done to a fighting art to get budo. It's something that makes them worth continuing to do after the fighting skills are obsolete. That's why there is no European budo. I don't believe Chinese arts are quite the same as budo either because they are not rooted as fighting systems but rather as civilian or religious systems.
Hi Cliff,
That's what they tell you nowadays and that's why you will find so few really capable of making the choice.

Besides you may have missed the point, Jon was making.

IMO, Budo comes into play after you had changed body and mind to a considerable degree. As long as your'e 'helpless, how can you think to be involved in budo? Budo will tell you how to do what you already have been able to.

Ah, and the Europeans didn't need budo, never did, even to prosper in the far east, although they had the means to see and appreciate its possible values.
So they welcomed it.

There is a lot of myth and marketing out there, but if you get to the core…..

Best,
Bernd
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Old 02-21-2016, 08:41 PM   #27
Cliff Judge
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Re: Am I Really Practicing Budo?

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In talking about fighting arts versus Budo, are we back to the first posts comparing and contrasting bujutsu and budo?

Not sure I agree about your comments on Chinese arts. Someone develops a fighting style and notes a principle of yin and yang (In/Yo) and works on ways to develop this. Of course it's the same as saying heads or tails or left or right or day or night but philosophical Daoism had the same concept soTaiji is now called Daoist (the Taoist style of Taiji was developed by a Canadian a few decades ago I believe). Philosophically, Yin/Yang or In/Yo are not religious, and people practicing Taiji are not practicing religious Daoism.
The reason why I think an art needs a warrior pedigree to be considered Budo is that there needs to be a real understanding of life or death informing it, somewhere back in the chain of succession. In my understanding - which is limited - the internal Chinese arts don't have that.

But I do think that's just sort of a check box for something to fit my personal definition, and it does fit most of the Japanese arts, Aikido included. You can have in-yo and you can have a do and you can have self defense and you can wave swords around without it being really Budo.
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Old 02-21-2016, 09:21 PM   #28
Ellis Amdur
 
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Re: Am I Really Practicing Budo?

Clliff - as a lot of these claims of warrior heritage are legend, who knows. How far back does one go to find that heritage?

But t'ai chi allegedly developed from Chen village, and their early tales include both militia and war. xingyi allegedly developed from spear. Bagua apparently was an amalgamation of some shaolin style (originally developed to fight the wako, raiding Chinese coastal areas) with a Taoist method of circular walking, the founder seeing the addition of the circles ideal to respond to circular attacks. (this, by the way, was roughly the same period that koryu developed).

Karl Friday's work suggests that even the oldest koryu were not, strictly speaking, military training, but rather, methods of indoctrination for the ruling (bushi) class. Furthermore, the vast bulk of koryu only tenuously have any connection to life-and-death issues, because they were developed for duels, not war, something that very rarely occurred in the Edo period.

The warrior pedigree has been vastly overblown, anyway. As I note in Old School, the vast majority of koryu were populated and led primarily by non-bushi, but the mid-late Edo, and for many, if not most, were primarily a means of accumulating social capital. (like joining a golf club to hob-nob with one's betters).

From another angle, training in budo of any sort is 'problematic.' As Peter Goldsbury so ably shows, how can we 'claim' to be doing aikido, when other than the shapes of the techniques on the mat, we have very little connection with what Ueshiba Morihei was doing - from a cultural, spiritual, political and social perspective? How can we purport to train budo, when until recently, one probably desired a sword that had a mark/stamp that attested to how many dead bodies the blade could cut through. The mind-set of budoka of 100 - 200, etc years ago, was so alien to us, in so many particulars. Being a budoka was not just what one did in a dojo - it was what one did in one's home, and on one's job. It entailed how one related to one's superiors and inferiors (the very use of these words might be troubling to a modern Westerner). One of my teachers was truly old-school. I remember the two of us walking in a train station, and passed a homeless woman, possibly mentally ill, begging. I reflexively said, "kawaii so" - which means, literally, "pitiful" - but it is an expression of commiseration, not criticism. My teacher said, "Yeah, sure, but you know what. No matter what misfortune ever happened to you or I, we'd never end up like that." (And for those who'd argue, his implication was not only that we'd find a way to survive better, but if we didn't, we'd kill ourselves with complete equanimity, rather than be degraded in that state.). The reader may quibble, but this is a classical budoka perspective. To what degree do we diverge from this and still be doing budo?

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Old 02-22-2016, 06:47 AM   #29
Peter Goldsbury
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Re: Am I Really Practicing Budo?

Hello Ellis,

In this connection, I could add that I have just spent a very pleasant few days in Iwama. I was there with Ethan Weisgard and he and I interviewed three of the original deshi of Morihei Ueshiba: Shihans Isoyama, Inagaki and Watahiki. Carl Thompson also took part.

Ethan organized everything superbly and chose the three because they each had a direct 'pipe' to Morihei Ueshiba separately from Saito Morihiro Shihan. The three of us will translate, edit / polish and generally organize the interrviews and eventually post them here on AikiWeb.

The interviews took several hours on the first day. On the second day, Watahiki Sensei showed us round and let us see the quarters occupied by Morihei Ueshiba when he resided in Iwama. There are stacks of Japanese books, including several volumes of Reikai Monogatari, all clearly unsorted and probably unread by anyone except Ueshiba himself. In the evenimg of the second day we had dinner with Isoyama Sensei and Inagaki Sensei and dinner with Inagaki Sensei was repeated in his own home on the third evening.

Inagaki Sensei is a scholar and researcher in his own right and he gave me much homework: about 100 pages of text entitled 開祖の教え, written by a researcher by the name of Inui (乾). (There is a lengthy section covering alleged mistakes in the editing of Aiki Shinzui and Takemusu Aiki.) I think Inagaki Sensei will set up a meeting with Inui san at some point in the future.

Anyway, the few days I spent in Iwama have whetted my appetite for more research and I plan to visit Iwama again in the future. It is clear, however, from this visit that the Omoto connection was absolutely crucial for Morihei Ueshiba -- and there are very few scholars of Omoto around, even in Japan.

Best wishes,

PAG

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Old 02-22-2016, 05:44 PM   #30
Cliff Judge
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Re: Am I Really Practicing Budo?

Hi Ellis,

Thanks for the tidbits if info on the Chinese systems. One might quibble that the koryu systems have slightly better documentation but you do not,actually, see much historical evidence that such and such a ryu was practiced by so and so who particupated in an actual battle. Or duel for that matter. I don't have any turf to dig my heels into here because I think Budo is one of those terms whose definition is left open-ended. Many people would include Chinese systems, and various kinds of pugilism or even sport under the moniker.

Whether or not I can ever be the same as a person who pursued my chosen ryuha 150 years ago in mind, body, character, or attitude, I don't think its too crazy to imagine the he and I do have some things in common. The stuff I think is cool about doing koryu - in particular, the idea that its an art handed down by warriors of old - I really imagine he felt the same way, perhaps down to the daydreaming about training while toiling at his office job in Edo or whatever province.

Quote:
Ellis Amdur wrote: View Post
From another angle, training in budo of any sort is 'problematic.' As Peter Goldsbury so ably shows, how can we 'claim' to be doing aikido, when other than the shapes of the techniques on the mat, we have very little connection with what Ueshiba Morihei was doing - from a cultural, spiritual, political and social perspective?
IMO, if anyone ever thought of Aikido as the exact practice of Osensei, I humbly submit that they misunderstood the nature of training.

Would having a connection to Ueshiba culturally, spiritually, politically and socially even be possible? Or at all desirable? Culturally, I would argue on some level there is a connection that everyone gets simply by stepping onto the mat with a certain level of commitment to come back agagin and train regularly - you then become part of a culture that was began by Osensei (though we may argue to what degree).

I think that Ueshiba "was doing" a great number of things with his life. One of them was creating a martial art known as Aikido. I am pretty sure he meant for that to happen - for his art to propagate after his death, and to spread around the world. Maybe he meant for it to look differently, or to bring about the goals of Imperial Japan, or to end all war and bring the kami into directly physical manifestation on this earth. Maybe he meant for Aikido practitioners to be able to exhibit the kind of internal power that practitioners of Chinese arts pursue. I don't know. I think at the end of the day the best thing he could possibly hope for is that in the 21st century there are people all over the world moving around on mats attempting to improve the shape of their technique. If he wanted something different, its on him and that ship has sailed.

Form is pretty important over here, after all.
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Old 02-22-2016, 06:17 PM   #31
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Re: Am I Really Practicing Budo?

Cliff - and thus, my point. If I recall, you train in Jikishinkage-ryu. How far are you from Ippusai? Or Matsumoto Bizen-no-kami. I certainly feel a vast gulf between myself and my predecessors, with the gokui being the only bridge (that I can embody and "emspirit" myself with what they experienced and how they experienced their world). But it is a vast gulf.

I was discussing this today concerning another project I am involved - regarding "Training toward managing ‘high-risk, high-consequence social interactions' in an unfamiliar environment" And my collaborator and I were discussing empathy and the vast disconnect we can have with those in another culture. And I recalled a conversation with a friend, who was born in an Inner Mongolian village, who recalled his aunt. She was bending over the village well to draw water, and farted. She was so embarrassed that she threw herself into the well and drowned. And he explained that this made sense according to the customs of his village.

By the way, I have no doubt whatsoever that I am practicing budo . . . but there are many nuances worth discussion.

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Old 02-22-2016, 08:24 PM   #32
Cliff Judge
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Re: Am I Really Practicing Budo?

That's the second fascinating bon mot you've shared on this thread and I can't really match it with anything fit for public consumption.

I agree that there is a vast gulf between us and our Budo predecessors in terms of experience, values, expectation of life, understanding of the universe, relationship with the unknown, etc. But its a fact that we are linked to those folks to whatever extent our training is a continuation of theirs. The way one of these systems - and I think Aikido should be included - can be a valuable activity for someone to purse whether they were a 16th century bushi, a 19th century Japanese businessman with social aspirations, a 20th century psychology major from NYC, or a mildly competent 21st century computer geek is what makes them Budo, and it has to do with their being something a little different than a fighting system.
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Old 02-23-2016, 07:58 AM   #33
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Re: Am I Really Practicing Budo?

I'll speak a little more to my perspective...

In my earlier post I shared my perspective that budo was a method for introducing a fighting class to a civilian population. Partly, I think this because I believe the transition is unidirectional. There's a reason why our military forces have a version of a boot camp - we are converting civilians to fighters. We are changing lifestyles to survive in a different environment. There is a reason why fighters have difficulty normalizing back to civilian life; they are not civilians. Now I'm not saying that because we aren't military or para-military we can't do budo, but I am being critical of separating playing at being a soldier from understanding that life.

It is hollow to apply a code of ethics to a set of skills you do not posses. You might as well argue about who you would kill if you had a lightsaber - it's fantasy. What I am saying is that we need first to change our bodies to develop skills, then we can apply a code of ethics to those skills. In a grander view, I understand some people do not want the fighting skills and choose to change something else. Cliff argues spirit, fine. But you have to first acknowledge that you do not have the spirit of a warrior, then you have to figure of what the spirit of the warrior is, then you have to implement a training to get to point B from point A. The space between the points? Your path. I would stick to the argument that if you don't know from where you started and you don't know to where you are going, there is no way possible you can tell me you are on a "path". I don't care if you say you're changing your body, or you mind, or you spirit, or your underpants. If you don't change something, it will show on the mat.

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Old 02-23-2016, 09:55 AM   #34
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Re: Am I Really Practicing Budo?

I will agree that for all the time and effort invested I have no desire to just become a rabid dog. I want to be something better; I want to active,y work towards being something better. As a teacher, I want to help people become better - not just more lethal.

Whatever went before:

The one version of the founding of Tai Chi is from the Chen village that Ellis told. The other is Chanzangfang was an immortal who was ten feet tall and became more powerful, more virile, more serene and more intelligent with every passing Century of his life. He could put an arrow through a tree trunk the diameter of a house with only throwing it like a dart, he lived 700+ years, he could communicate with animals Dr Doolittle style, etc...

That doesn't help me train much.

I think the most valid question is how are we moving forward. How do we try to become more than attack dogs. Because, yes, I want to be more than just someone else's dog. From Aikido, this takes more IMO than Kotegaeshi.
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Old 02-23-2016, 01:18 PM   #35
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Re: Am I Really Practicing Budo?

As a point of clarification, I am not criticizing good or bad where our training puts us. The reality that I am not a professional baseball player does not affect my joy when I play baseball with my son.

I know many people who practice aikido, few of them are in any sense fighting machines. Fewer even who are out of control AND fighting machines. Fewer still who are "lethal." Most of us are hobbyists who want to train and work on something and aikido is that something. I far more familiar with people who practice aikido who are bullies and jerks than I am of aikido people who are capable of hurting me outside of the paradigm of giving my body to them to hurt.

Of course, YMMV.

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Old 02-23-2016, 01:55 PM   #36
Cliff Judge
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Re: Am I Really Practicing Budo?

Quote:
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I'll speak a little more to my perspective...

In my earlier post I shared my perspective that budo was a method for introducing a fighting class to a civilian population. Partly, I think this because I believe the transition is unidirectional. There's a reason why our military forces have a version of a boot camp - we are converting civilians to fighters. We are changing lifestyles to survive in a different environment. There is a reason why fighters have difficulty normalizing back to civilian life; they are not civilians. Now I'm not saying that because we aren't military or para-military we can't do budo, but I am being critical of separating playing at being a soldier from understanding that life.

It is hollow to apply a code of ethics to a set of skills you do not posses. You might as well argue about who you would kill if you had a lightsaber - it's fantasy. What I am saying is that we need first to change our bodies to develop skills, then we can apply a code of ethics to those skills. In a grander view, I understand some people do not want the fighting skills and choose to change something else. Cliff argues spirit, fine. But you have to first acknowledge that you do not have the spirit of a warrior, then you have to figure of what the spirit of the warrior is, then you have to implement a training to get to point B from point A. The space between the points? Your path. I would stick to the argument that if you don't know from where you started and you don't know to where you are going, there is no way possible you can tell me you are on a "path". I don't care if you say you're changing your body, or you mind, or you spirit, or your underpants. If you don't change something, it will show on the mat.
You know, Jon, I did some thinking about what I actually meant when I talked about how budo "trains the spirit" and it comes down to physical things anyway. I don't know if I even really believe in anything but the body.

And my sword teacher back in Maryland felt that koryu were developed as a means of coping with what is known today as PTSD and its social effects.

Thanks for taking the time to reiterate what you were saying.
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Old 02-24-2016, 07:04 AM   #37
Bernd Lehnen
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Re: Am I Really Practicing Budo?

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Cliff Judge wrote: View Post
You know, Jon, I did some thinking about what I actually meant when I talked about how budo "trains the spirit" and it comes down to physical things anyway. I don't know if I even really believe in anything but the body.

And my sword teacher back in Maryland felt that koryu were developed as a means of coping with what is known today as PTSD and its social effects.

Thanks for taking the time to reiterate what you were saying.
Hi Cliff,

Seems the Tokugawa didn't want those major internal wars of bygone times anymore, hence not many veterans with PTSD.
So, why would such a system of coping with PTSD be needed?

Although koryu and kobudo are for the most part treated like synonyms, on could make a certain distinction in the order of there aims, respectively 1. combat, 2. discipline and 3. morals versus 1. morals, 2. discipline and 3. aesthetic form.

Now I guess you are very conscious about this.

Would you please delineate how you think this should be related to or fit in to being created as a means of coping with PTSD, when the bulk of koryu (given their contents) apparently were developed more for the personal "ersatz" of war, i.e. duelling, instead of for going to war, then.

Not saying they weren't useful for this purpose in our times, though.

Best,
Bernd
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Old 02-24-2016, 02:06 PM   #38
Fred Little
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Re: Am I Really Practicing Budo?

Bernd,

I would suggest that it is often necessary for a bureaucrat in an authoritarian military dictatorship to fulfill his role, which may involve -- on a fairly routine basis -- taking actions with which he personally disagrees and which he knows will cause enormous suffering to a person or persons regarding whom he has feelings. Although this may initially seem less clear than PTS resulting from involvement in physical violence, I can assure you that it does occur and is quite real. (Also note, stress after trauma is not a disorder. What is a disorder is our cultural failure to deal with it. Absence of stress after trauma is sociopathy.)

Best,

FL

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Old 02-24-2016, 04:06 PM   #39
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Re: Am I Really Practicing Budo?

Is there a confusion between Budo and Bushido? Or are the both the same?
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Old 02-24-2016, 04:11 PM   #40
Cliff Judge
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Re: Am I Really Practicing Budo?

Quote:
Bernd Lehnen wrote: View Post
Hi Cliff,

Seems the Tokugawa didn't want those major internal wars of bygone times anymore, hence not many veterans with PTSD.
So, why would such a system of coping with PTSD be needed?

Although koryu and kobudo are for the most part treated like synonyms, on could make a certain distinction in the order of there aims, respectively 1. combat, 2. discipline and 3. morals versus 1. morals, 2. discipline and 3. aesthetic form.

Now I guess you are very conscious about this.

Would you please delineate how you think this should be related to or fit in to being created as a means of coping with PTSD, when the bulk of koryu (given their contents) apparently were developed more for the personal "ersatz" of war, i.e. duelling, instead of for going to war, then.

Not saying they weren't useful for this purpose in our times, though.

Best,
Bernd
I am just going to throw out that the old kata-based martial systems are built on a framework of esoteric Buddhist ritual which is trance-inducing. The tangible elements of the ritual are combative. So a post-stress warrior can exorcise his demons by engaging them and putting them away.

I don't believe they were created for duelling.
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Old 02-24-2016, 04:33 PM   #41
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Re: Am I Really Practicing Budo?

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Bernd,

I would suggest that it is often necessary for a bureaucrat in an authoritarian military dictatorship to fulfill his role, which may involve -- on a fairly routine basis -- taking actions with which he personally disagrees and which he knows will cause enormous suffering to a person or persons regarding whom he has feelings. Although this may initially seem less clear than PTS resulting from involvement in physical violence, I can assure you that it does occur and is quite real.
Indeed. Authoritarian regimes have historically developed a variety of mechanisms to desensitize their "enforcers," both to help them put aside any qualms and act as instructed and to prevent them from rebelling against the regime. Given the historical role of "budo" in Japan, is it really an ideal that citizens of western democracies should strive to emulate?

(Of course, many of the same techniques are used in the training of military and police units -- particularly "elite" units -- under non-authoritarian regimes. This is one of the reasons why civilian oversight of such units is important.)

Katherine
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Old 02-24-2016, 05:45 PM   #42
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Re: Am I Really Practicing Budo?

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Katherine Derbyshire wrote: View Post
IGiven the historical role of "budo" in Japan, is it really an ideal that citizens of western democracies should strive to emulate?
What's this role?
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Old 02-24-2016, 06:33 PM   #43
kewms
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Re: Am I Really Practicing Budo?

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What's this role?
Well, I was specifically thinking of the use (some would say corruption) of "budo" by the Pre-WWII Japanese nationalist movement. Military drills were added to the school curriculum in 1885, and by 1941 physical education was entirely replaced by military instruction.

But the Tokugawa shogunate emphasized unquestioning loyalty to one's superiors, too, and that's the environment in which "budo" in the modern sense developed.

The Hagakure was written a hundred years into the Tokugawa period. Nitobe's book, Bushido, was written (in English, in Pennsylvania) in 1899.

Even modern Japan isn't a terribly pluralistic or individualistic society relative to the US. Pre-WWII Japan certainly wasn't.

Katherine

Last edited by kewms : 02-24-2016 at 06:39 PM.
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Old 02-24-2016, 08:20 PM   #44
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Re: Am I Really Practicing Budo?

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Katherine Derbyshire wrote: View Post
Well, I was specifically thinking of the use (some would say corruption) of "budo" by the Pre-WWII Japanese nationalist movement. Military drills were added to the school curriculum in 1885, and by 1941 physical education was entirely replaced by military instruction.

But the Tokugawa shogunate emphasized unquestioning loyalty to one's superiors, too, and that's the environment in which "budo" in the modern sense developed.

The Hagakure was written a hundred years into the Tokugawa period. Nitobe's book, Bushido, was written (in English, in Pennsylvania) in 1899.

Even modern Japan isn't a terribly pluralistic or individualistic society relative to the US. Pre-WWII Japan certainly wasn't.

Katherine
It seems kind of like you are confusing budo and bushido.
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Old 02-24-2016, 08:23 PM   #45
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Re: Am I Really Practicing Budo?

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Is there a confusion between Budo and Bushido? Or are the both the same?
Bushido is essentially the creation of the early 20th century Japanese military and has almost no direct relation to classical martial arts practice and training. The military influence in modern martial arts is all to clear. Budo and bushido are quite different.

Peter Boylan
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Old 02-24-2016, 09:46 PM   #46
Ellis Amdur
 
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Re: Am I Really Practicing Budo?

I would somewhat disagree. The Tokugawa era was one of the few successful totalitarian regimes. To be sure, bushido, as we understand it, was a late 19th century/20th century fascist (statist) development of older doctrines, just as "State Shinto" was.
But, the essence of bushido was in an older doctrine shido, that goes quite far back. The bushi became armed government bureaucrats, who put down several thousand farmer's rebellions (ikki) using firearms, for the most part. Just as Ueshiba's concept of 'harmony' was not 'peace on earth, goodwill to men,' but rather, "I'm the avatar of humanity who will harmonize the forces of the universe" (and NOT only internal power, but the universe written large), budo was not, by any stretch of the imagination, merely a pursuit of individual excellence. It was:
1. a means of channelling bushi energy, so they felt like they were busy (and thereby, weren't doing actual martial arts in rebellion).
2. A training to inculcate values that they, the ruling class, should ingrain
3. A method of hand-to-hand combat, that changed with each generation (see my writing on Edo budo, and the rise of competition in Old School
4. A means of CEU accumulation that in the Edo period, resulted in higher rice stipends per menkyo, and money for teachers (the more menkyo in a system, the more to sell).
5. A means of accumulating social capital, particularly in the parvenu classes of rich peasants and merchants.
6. A pursuit of excellence by some
7. A means of sportive competition (the majority of ryu in the Edo period ended up competitive). Koryu, in the Edo and Meiji period meant old fashioned schools that only did kata.
8. A poor methodology of keeping the bushi and increasingly the larger public militarily trained. (many han ordered their various ryu to amalgamate into a mega-training system, sort of like kendo actually), in part to prepare for the West's entry, something that was expected decades before the Black Ships.

What I'm reacting to is the critique of WWII budo, as if that which went before was finer, more moral, etc. In fact, the truest budoka, in my view, were the right-wing activists and fascists. Toyama Mitsuru and Uchida Ryohei were the successors of the samurai, not the iaido practitioner, looking for the quiet in the heart of repeated drawing of his sword.The social system of the Edo period can be understood, in part, by it's execution methods.

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Old 02-24-2016, 11:25 PM   #47
jurasketu
Dojo: Roswell Budokan
Location: Roswell GA
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Re: Am I Really Practicing Budo?

Back to those silly Europeans...

Are not medieval knights with their martial training, honor, oaths of loyalty to their lords, codes of conduct, tournaments, trial by combat, etc very similar to the samurai?

Seems like the same sorts of stuff to me. Unlike, Japan, however, warfare continued unabated into the modern firearm era in Europe, but the aristocracy continued many of the old ways. All "gentlemen" were expected to know the sword, ride horses, and use a dueling pistol. The "gentlemen's word", loyalty and honor were of great importance (at least for appearances sake).

All paths lead to death. I strongly recommend taking one of the scenic routes.
AWA - Nidan - Started Aikido training in 2008
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Old 02-25-2016, 12:37 AM   #48
kewms
Join Date: Aug 2002
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Re: Am I Really Practicing Budo?

I'm certainly not enough of an expert on Japanese history and martial culture to argue with the likes of Peter B., Peter G., and Ellis.

But I do think it's safe to say that many people who claim to be studying "budo" don't have much understanding of what that actually means.

I also think that many aspects of traditional "martial honor" codes -- eastern and western -- are extremely problematic when adopted by civilians in the modern world.

Katherine
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Old 02-25-2016, 03:01 AM   #49
Cliff Judge
Location: Kawasaki, Kanagawa
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Re: Am I Really Practicing Budo?

Quote:
Katherine Derbyshire wrote: View Post
I'm certainly not enough of an expert on Japanese history and martial culture to argue with the likes of Peter B., Peter G., and Ellis.

But I do think it's safe to say that many people who claim to be studying "budo" don't have much understanding of what that actually means.

I also think that many aspects of traditional "martial honor" codes -- eastern and western -- are extremely problematic when adopted by civilians in the modern world.

Katherine
Well, yeah, anybody who thinks budo is a traditional martial honor code lacks understanding of what the word refers to.
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Old 02-25-2016, 07:36 AM   #50
earnest aikidoka
Location: singapore
Join Date: Feb 2009
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Re: Am I Really Practicing Budo?

Quote:
Peter Boylan wrote: View Post
Bushido is essentially the creation of the early 20th century Japanese military and has almost no direct relation to classical martial arts practice and training. The military influence in modern martial arts is all to clear. Budo and bushido are quite different.
Perhaps then one should define what is Budo compared to Bushido? The thread I feel, is leaning towards bushido instead of Budo. The way of the warrior or The way of war. What is one practicing? That should be the question.
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