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Old 09-22-2015, 08:13 PM   #1
Peter Boylan
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Aikido Is An Anachronism In the 21st Century

Aikido, and all budo, is a relic from the past. Is it really relevant to the 21st century. What place do the martial skills of pre-modern Japan have the world of the internet? I wrestled with that question in this blog

http://budobum.blogspot.com/2015/09/...t-century.html

What do you think? Is Aikido and all budo an anachronism or does it have a real place in the 21st century?

Peter Boylan
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Old 09-27-2015, 05:02 AM   #2
rugwithlegs
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Re: Aikido Is An Anachronism In the 21st Century

This is a great article.

The martial arts represent traditions spanning teaching methodologies, philosophies, and centuries. Some of these aspects are very timeless: "this is how your body was made to move effectively", "this is how your body can be injured", "these are physical/mental exercises that teach translatable skills", "this is how mind and body can work together." Many of these ideas can then come together in more fulfilling and more healthy lives with calm, adaptive, and focused minds; and strong, flexible, well coordinated, agile bodies. With varying degrees of success, I think this is a great reason for Budo.

The traditions are broad, and imperfect. Us versus Them. Quasi Military style discipline. The teacher demands the right to control the student - regardless of the teacher's actual level of understanding of the student's psychology or physical barriers, or the actual lesson of the technique. Aikido has a history of rapid expansive growth across disparate cultures that had been at war, at a time when there were multiple breakdowns in leadership and while the art was being redefined nebulously by it's top exponents.

I find when I teach, it is important that I ask many questions of myself. There are competing and antagonistic ideas out there. If I do something "just because it's traditional" and I cannot find a more valid reason than that after research, experimentation, and self examination then I wonder if I am in anachronism territory.
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Old 09-27-2015, 07:22 AM   #3
Peter Goldsbury
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Re: Aikido Is An Anachronism In the 21st Century

Quote:
Peter Boylan wrote: View Post
Aikido, and all budo, is a relic from the past. Is it really relevant to the 21st century. What place do the martial skills of pre-modern Japan have the world of the internet? I wrestled with that question in this blog

http://budobum.blogspot.com/2015/09/...t-century.html

What do you think? Is Aikido and all budo an anachronism or does it have a real place in the 21st century?
Some questions.
Do you lump all martial systems as budo, or merely Japanese martial systems?
Do you make any distinction between jutsu arts and dou arts?
Do you make any distinction between koryu arts and gendai arts?
I think it would help the discussion of we had (1) a clear examples of a pre-modern Japanese art that was not anachronistic at the time, but now is, and also (2) a clear example of a modern Japanese martial art that you think is not anachronistic.
Do you make any distinction between anachronism and irrelevance?

Best wishes,

Best wishes,

P A Goldsbury
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Old 10-02-2015, 10:13 AM   #4
Peter Boylan
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Re: Aikido Is An Anachronism In the 21st Century

Quote:
Peter A Goldsbury wrote: View Post
Some questions.
Do you lump all martial systems as budo, or merely Japanese martial systems?
Do you make any distinction between jutsu arts and dou arts?
Do you make any distinction between koryu arts and gendai arts?
I think it would help the discussion of we had (1) a clear examples of a pre-modern Japanese art that was not anachronistic at the time, but now is, and also (2) a clear example of a modern Japanese martial art that you think is not anachronistic.
Do you make any distinction between anachronism and irrelevance?
,
Peter,
Thank you. You always ask the best questions. I look forward to your responses because they always make me stretch.

Do you lump all martial systems as budo, or merely Japanese martial systems?
This is a really good question, and one I haven't entirely made up my mind on. However, I am leaning towards distinguishing budo as being only Japanese martial systems. The reason for this is that the thing that seems to make a thing a "do" is a strong neo-Confucian component. That component is lacking in Western martial arts. I don't know enough about martial arts from other Asian countries to fully evaluate the Neo-Confucian elements they contain, but they lack the Neo-Confucian elements, particularly those that developed in Japan from the 15th century onward.

Do you make any distinction between jutsu arts and dou arts?
Not within the realm of Japanese martial arts. The Neo-Confucian ideas of personal development combined with the influence of tea ceremony have so permeated Japanese culture that everything in Japan is a Way if someone wants it to be. I have seen books in Japanese on things non-Japanese would never imagine being "do" systems, such as housecleaning. Whether a system makes an official nod to the Neo-Confucian elements of Japanese culture or not, by virtue of being a product of Japanese culture, it contains them.

Do you make any distinction between koryu arts and gendai arts?

For purposes of this particular essay, not really. Each art preserves something of the age in which it was founded. Koryu arts do this clearly, but so do judo, aikido and kendo. Judo and kendo were created during the Meiji Era when challenge matches and public competitions were relatively common. They reflect the expectations of the times. For example, I'm something of a heretic because I would like to see judo randori and shiai include matches with dogi, and without. The wearing of kimono like garment is clearly anachronistic, even in Japan. For kendo, the use of the shinai points directly to the technology of the age in which kendo was codified. I'm sure modern sports science could come up with something that much more accurately reflects the true size, weight and balance of a shinken while maintaining the safety provided by the shinai. Aikido is locked into an image with hakama, seiza, shiko walking, and other traits that are clearly part of the Meiji and Taisho eras that Ueshiba grew up in rather than the mid-20th century Japan during which Aikido was solidified.

I think it would help the discussion of we had (1) a clear examples of a pre-modern Japanese art that was not anachronistic at the time, but now is, and also (2) a clear example of a modern Japanese martial art that you think is not anachronistic.
Any of the major Itto Ryu branches come to mind. Also most schools that were created during the Tokugawa period with iai as their foundation. Itto Ryu addressed the most likely combat scenario of an age of peace with people living in cities: duels and fights between a couple of people. It is even clearer for the iai schools, since during the Tokugawa period going to battle in armor was highly unlikely, but scenarios where you would be wearing and using a katana mounted sword were the norm for the bushi class.
As for modern Japanese martial arts that aren't anachronistic, I honestly can't think of any.

Do you make any distinction between anachronism and irrelevance?
Yes, I make quite a bit of distinction. The most applicable definition of anachronism from Merriam Webster is: a person or a thing that is chronologically out of place; especially : one from a former age that is incongruous in the present. Nothing there makes any sort of requirement that something anachronistic is, ipso facto, irrelevant. I think it is quite possible for things to be both anachronistic and relevant. Analog, gear driven pocket watches are anachronistic, but they still serve the basic function quite well. Budo still teach a host of things that I think are important and functional in the 21st century. Their packaging is often the most anachronistic thing about them, though all the playing with swords takes a little more work to see the relevance than many things we do.

Peter Boylan
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Old 10-02-2015, 02:32 PM   #5
rugwithlegs
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Re: Aikido Is An Anachronism In the 21st Century

Thank you both. I see now from my comments that I did not make a clear distinction between irrelevance and anachronism.

Cooking a hotdog on a stick over an open fire - anachronism, but still tastey and still a valid way to cook. Hunting, fishing, running through the bush to collect berries and mushrooms - still a valid way to acquire food even when the local store is much more efficient.
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Old 10-02-2015, 07:53 PM   #6
Peter Goldsbury
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Re: Aikido Is An Anachronism In the 21st Century

Hello Peter,

Thank you for the responses. I will return to them in a later post.

I think the concept of anachronism is somewhat slippery and the slipperiness can perhaps be seen in the martial arts by comparing anachronism / anachronistic with tradition / traditional. I mean that context is an important factor in deciding whether something is anachronistic or not.

In Hiroshima we have a system of tramcars. Since Hiroshima is built on a delta, it was thought impractical to construct a subway system. Some people regard tramcars in general as anachronistic, but in Hiroshima they are an important means of travel. However, Hiroshima bought up old tramcars from other cities and the company overhauled them. They are still running and there are one or two that are actually A-bomb victims. There was a programme on NHK a few days ago on how parts of the tramcar system were quickly repaired after August 6 1945 and were running a few days later.

Now there is a clear sense in which these old tramcars are anachronistic, for they belong to an earlier time and have lasted well beyond their expected lifespan -- compared with the means of transport in other cities, where they are no longer used. But, qua tramcars they are not anachronistic at all and in fact the company, Hiroden, is constantly putting new up-to-date tramcars in service. There is even a new and environmentally 'correct' name for them: they are called 'green movers'.

I would not really call tramcars a 'traditional' means of transport in Hiroshima, compared, say, with the rickshaw or the palanquin. Rickshaws and palanquins are 'traditional' but clearly anachronistic and one would be hard put to defend their relevance, except perhaps as a tourist attraction.

With arts I think you have a different problem, compared to objects like tramcars, rickshaws or palanquins. Would you call the art of wrestling anachronistic? If you are required to wear special clothes and perform special rituals, perhaps yes. But considered as a practiced means of overcoming an opponent by relying on certain principles, perhaps not.

Best wishes,

PAG

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Old 10-06-2015, 06:45 PM   #7
Peter Boylan
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Re: Aikido Is An Anachronism In the 21st Century

Quote:
Peter A Goldsbury wrote: View Post
Now there is a clear sense in which these old tramcars are anachronistic, for they belong to an earlier time and have lasted well beyond their expected lifespan -- compared with the means of transport in other cities, where they are no longer used. But, qua tramcars they are not anachronistic at all and in fact the company, Hiroden, is constantly putting new up-to-date tramcars in service. There is even a new and environmentally 'correct' name for them: they are called 'green movers'.

I would not really call tramcars a 'traditional' means of transport in Hiroshima, compared, say, with the rickshaw or the palanquin. Rickshaws and palanquins are 'traditional' but clearly anachronistic and one would be hard put to defend their relevance, except perhaps as a tourist attraction.
Peter,

Thank you for your lovely example of exactly the quandary I have when calling things anachronistic. In some ways I would certainly call the tram cars in Hiroshima traditional and anachronistic. Certainly there have been tram cars in use in Hiroshima since well before Ueshiba Morihei envisioned his own art called Aikido.

As your example makes clear, things can be anachronistic and still be vitally useful and functional.

I look forward to your response to my earlier reply.

Peter Boylan
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Old 10-08-2015, 01:37 AM   #8
StefanHultberg
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Re: Aikido Is An Anachronism In the 21st Century

It's very simple - to me aikido is a lifesaver so how could it be an anachronism??

All the best

Stefan
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Old 10-09-2015, 12:35 PM   #9
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Re: Aikido Is An Anachronism In the 21st Century

Aikido is less then 100 years old, BJJ a bit more, Shoji Kempo is about 70. Why would any of them be an anachronism?

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Old 10-10-2015, 10:15 AM   #10
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Re: Aikido Is An Anachronism In the 21st Century

Times change. Lots of things that were routine 100 years ago are considered anachronistic now.

Katherine
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Old 10-10-2015, 12:02 PM   #11
sorokod
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Re: Aikido Is An Anachronism In the 21st Century

Quote:
Katherine Derbyshire wrote: View Post
Times change. Lots of things that were routine 100 years ago are considered anachronistic now.

Katherine
This could be a strong opening for a thread titled Lots Of Things Are An Anachronism In the 21st Century. This thread deal specifically with the (young) martial art of Aikido.

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Old 10-10-2015, 01:18 PM   #12
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Re: Aikido Is An Anachronism In the 21st Century

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David Soroko wrote: View Post
This could be a strong opening for a thread titled Lots Of Things Are An Anachronism In the 21st Century. This thread deal specifically with the (young) martial art of Aikido.
And my point is that the mere youth of aikido does not protect it from being an anachronism, and arguing that it does misses the point of the original thread.

Arguably, aikido was anachronistic the day it was invented, the days of empty hand combat having long since passed.

Equally arguably, even the oldest styles of budo contain timeless lessons, despite their relative lack of martial relevance in today's world.

But the absolute age of aikido is not enough to support either position.

Katherine
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Old 10-10-2015, 02:51 PM   #13
sorokod
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Re: Aikido Is An Anachronism In the 21st Century

Quote:
Katherine Derbyshire wrote: View Post
Arguably, aikido was anachronistic the day it was invented, the days of empty hand combat having long since passed.
Was somebody arguing this?

Quote:
Katherine Derbyshire wrote: View Post
But the absolute age of aikido is not enough to support either position.
Perhaps, but the OP wanted to make something of the passage of time hence the title of this thread.

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Old 10-21-2015, 08:09 AM   #14
Peter Boylan
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Re: Aikido Is An Anachronism In the 21st Century

Quote:
David Soroko wrote: View Post
Was somebody arguing this?

Perhaps, but the OP wanted to make something of the passage of time hence the title of this thread.
Katherine is pretty much on target with where the original blog post was going.I would even go so far as to say that much of Aikido practice was an anachronism before Ueshiba was teaching Daito Ryu in the 1930s.

Peter Boylan
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Old 10-21-2015, 09:13 AM   #15
Cliff Judge
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Re: Aikido Is An Anachronism In the 21st Century

Quote:
Peter Boylan wrote: View Post
Katherine is pretty much on target with where the original blog post was going.I would even go so far as to say that much of Aikido practice was an anachronism before Ueshiba was teaching Daito Ryu in the 1930s.
Daito ryu was an anachronism when Takeda was teaching it at the turn of the 20th century.
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Old 10-21-2015, 12:48 PM   #16
sorokod
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Re: Aikido Is An Anachronism In the 21st Century

Quote:
Peter Boylan wrote: View Post
Katherine is pretty much on target with where the original blog post was going.I would even go so far as to say that much of Aikido practice was an anachronism before Ueshiba was teaching Daito Ryu in the 1930s.
I am looking forward to your well reasoned argument as to why this is true.

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Old 10-21-2015, 01:32 PM   #17
Demetrio Cereijo
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Re: Aikido Is An Anachronism In the 21st Century

Quote:
Peter Boylan wrote: View Post
I would even go so far as to say that much of Aikido practice was an anachronism before Ueshiba was teaching Daito Ryu in the 1930s.
It seems to me these days everybody is a bit crazy about the Back to the Future movie,

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Old 10-21-2015, 02:02 PM   #18
Peter Boylan
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Re: Aikido Is An Anachronism In the 21st Century

Quote:
David Soroko wrote: View Post
I am looking forward to your well reasoned argument as to why this is true.
David,
The clothing that Ueshiba chose to practice in was an anachronism of the 19th century.
Defenses against the sword were anachronisms from the moment in 1876 when the wearing of swords in public was banned.
Techniques built around the idea that someone is wearing a sword were equally out of place.
Training in how to use a sword, again, anachronistic since 1876
Knee walking also went out with the Shogun in 1868 (not that it had ever been more common than incredibly rare) because the specific courtly circumstances that called for it ceased to exist.

I think that is enough.

Last edited by Peter Boylan : 10-21-2015 at 02:04 PM. Reason: Got the dates wrong

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Old 10-21-2015, 04:32 PM   #19
sorokod
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Re: Aikido Is An Anachronism In the 21st Century

Quote:
Peter Boylan wrote: View Post
David,
The clothing that Ueshiba chose to practice in was an anachronism of the 19th century.
Defenses against the sword were anachronisms from the moment in 1876 when the wearing of swords in public was banned.
Techniques built around the idea that someone is wearing a sword were equally out of place.
Training in how to use a sword, again, anachronistic since 1876
Knee walking also went out with the Shogun in 1868 (not that it had ever been more common than incredibly rare) because the specific courtly circumstances that called for it ceased to exist.

I think that is enough.
Sir! I will have you know that the founder had an impeccable taste in clothes, in the photo below he demonstrates his favourite beachwear:



But seriously, as you have very strong opinions about Aikido, and your list is a bit odd, and please don't take this the wrong way, for how long have you been practising Aikido?

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Old 10-21-2015, 04:32 PM   #20
Peter Goldsbury
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Re: Aikido Is An Anachronism In the 21st Century

Hello Peter,

This will be a longer post than usual because I am expanding on the questions I posed earlier and also your answers.

Quote:
Peter Boylan wrote: View Post
Peter,
Thank you. You always ask the best questions. I look forward to your responses because they always make me stretch.

Do you lump all martial systems as budo, or merely Japanese martial systems?
This is a really good question, and one I haven't entirely made up my mind on. However, I am leaning towards distinguishing budo as being only Japanese martial systems. The reason for this is that the thing that seems to make a thing a "do" is a strong neo-Confucian component. That component is lacking in Western martial arts. I don't know enough about martial arts from other Asian countries to fully evaluate the Neo-Confucian elements they contain, but they lack the Neo-Confucian elements, particularly those that developed in Japan from the 15th century onward.
PAG. Of course, the reason for the question was your use of the term budo without any qualification. The Japanese cultural baggage that comes with this term makes it very problematic, especially if one avoids giving a definition of the term. The Aikikai, for example, has a preoccupation with the ‘correct view' of budo, but regards the term as indefinable. Which, of course, is very convenient, since it enables one to avoid having to commit oneself and one can remain in the ‘safe' zone of simply quoting the Founder.

Quote:
Peter Boylan wrote: View Post
Do you make any distinction between jutsu arts and dou arts?
Not within the realm of Japanese martial arts. The Neo-Confucian ideas of personal development combined with the influence of tea ceremony have so permeated Japanese culture that everything in Japan is a Way if someone wants it to be. I have seen books in Japanese on things non-Japanese would never imagine being "do" systems, such as housecleaning. Whether a system makes an official nod to the Neo-Confucian elements of Japanese culture or not, by virtue of being a product of Japanese culture, it contains them.
PAG. In your answer you mentioned the combined influence of Neo-Confucian personal development with the influence of the tea ceremony, by which I suppose you mean the influence of Zen. Is this correct and if so, what of the other manifestations of Buddhism? I say this because you seem to regard Neo-Confucianism in the same way that D T Suzuki regarded Zen Buddhism -- as the key to unlocking Japanese martial culture, especially for non-Japanese. In the same way that scholars like Karl Friday and Oleg Benesch have questioned the canonical version of the evolution / role of the samurai class, the assumptions governing the intellectual background of Sengoku Jidai / Edo Jidai also need to be questioned. SHU-HA-RI is, on the face of it, a very ‘Neo-Confucian' concept and some scholars tie it almost exclusively to Zen. Rupert Cox, for example, does this in his book on the Zen Arts and in a paper entitled, "Is there a Japanese way of Playing?" I am not convinced, mainly because the traditions defining the so-called Zen arts, and by extension the martial arts, were more complex than simply Neo-Confucian or even Zen.

Quote:
Peter Boylan wrote: View Post

Do you make any distinction between koryu arts and gendai arts?

For purposes of this particular essay, not really. Each art preserves something of the age in which it was founded. Koryu arts do this clearly, but so do judo, aikido and kendo. Judo and kendo were created during the Meiji Era when challenge matches and public competitions were relatively common. They reflect the expectations of the times. For example, I'm something of a heretic because I would like to see judo randori and shiai include matches with dogi, and without. The wearing of kimono like garment is clearly anachronistic, even in Japan. For kendo, the use of the shinai points directly to the technology of the age in which kendo was codified. I'm sure modern sports science could come up with something that much more accurately reflects the true size, weight and balance of a shinken while maintaining the safety provided by the shinai. Aikido is locked into an image with hakama, seiza, shiko walking, and other traits that are clearly part of the Meiji and Taisho eras that Ueshiba grew up in rather than the mid-20th century Japan during which Aikido was solidified.
PAG. Well, I note that you have adapted the title of your thread for Aikiweb, but kept to Budo for the same thread in E-Budo.com, which led to a lively discussion over there about people discussing koryu without having practiced it. So I think the main focus of your blog was koryu, but with gendai arts added, perhaps as an afterthought. The thrust of the article seems to be more effective with koryu than with a more ephemeral art like aikido. As I suggested earlier, there is a semantic fluidity involving being traditional, anachronistic, and irrelevant that might lead some to believe that they are similar in meaning.

Quote:
Peter Boylan wrote: View Post
I think it would help the discussion of we had (1) a clear examples of a pre-modern Japanese art that was not anachronistic at the time, but now is, and also (2) a clear example of a modern Japanese martial art that you think is not anachronistic.
Any of the major Itto Ryu branches come to mind. Also most schools that were created during the Tokugawa period with iai as their foundation. Itto Ryu addressed the most likely combat scenario of an age of peace with people living in cities: duels and fights between a couple of people. It is even clearer for the iai schools, since during the Tokugawa period going to battle in armor was highly unlikely, but scenarios where you would be wearing and using a katana mounted sword were the norm for the bushi class.
PAG. Presumably you could generalize this to cover any martial art that claims to be 'traditional.'.

Quote:
Peter Boylan wrote: View Post
As for modern Japanese martial arts that aren't anachronistic, I honestly can't think of any.
Quote:
Peter Boylan wrote: View Post
Do you make any distinction between anachronism and irrelevance?
Yes, I make quite a bit of distinction. The most applicable definition of anachronism from Merriam Webster is: a person or a thing that is chronologically out of place; especially : one from a former age that is incongruous in the present. Nothing there makes any sort of requirement that something anachronistic is, ipso facto, irrelevant. I think it is quite possible for things to be both anachronistic and relevant. Analog, gear driven pocket watches are anachronistic, but they still serve the basic function quite well. Budo still teach a host of things that I think are important and functional in the 21st century. Their packaging is often the most anachronistic thing about them, though all the playing with swords takes a little more work to see the relevance than many things we do.
PAG. One of the reasons for my earlier question and subsequent post was that that the meaning of anachronism has to be so qualified with a context that it loses its much of its use as a defining feature, hence my bemusement with your blog. I think that the relative weight of the poles of the contrast, between anachronism and relevance, is unbalanced, in the sense that being anachronistic is being given the same relative importance as being irrelevant.

Best wishes.

P A Goldsbury
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Old 11-26-2015, 08:59 PM   #21
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Re: Aikido Is An Anachronism In the 21st Century

Hello Peter,

Thank you for more excellent discussion.

Quote:
Peter A Goldsbury wrote: View Post
PAG. Of course, the reason for the question was your use of the term budo without any qualification. The Japanese cultural baggage that comes with this term makes it very problematic, especially if one avoids giving a definition of the term. The Aikikai, for example, has a preoccupation with the ‘correct view' of budo, but regards the term as indefinable. Which, of course, is very convenient, since it enables one to avoid having to commit oneself and one can remain in the ‘safe' zone of simply quoting the Founder.
I'm working on creating a solid definition of budo. I'm intrigued by the evolution of the concept of michi 道 that lead from cha no yu to sado to the concept being so ubiquitous that Kano Shihan could call his art "Judo" and people were not surprised or confused by this.

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Peter A Goldsbury wrote: View Post
PAG. In your answer you mentioned the combined influence of Neo-Confucian personal development with the influence of the tea ceremony, by which I suppose you mean the influence of Zen. Is this correct and if so, what of the other manifestations of Buddhism? I say this because you seem to regard Neo-Confucianism in the same way that D T Suzuki regarded Zen Buddhism -- as the key to unlocking Japanese martial culture, especially for non-Japanese. In the same way that scholars like Karl Friday and Oleg Benesch have questioned the canonical version of the evolution / role of the samurai class, the assumptions governing the intellectual background of Sengoku Jidai / Edo Jidai also need to be questioned. SHU-HA-RI is, on the face of it, a very ‘Neo-Confucian' concept and some scholars tie it almost exclusively to Zen. Rupert Cox, for example, does this in his book on the Zen Arts and in a paper entitled, "Is there a Japanese way of Playing?" I am not convinced, mainly because the traditions defining the so-called Zen arts, and by extension the martial arts, were more complex than simply Neo-Confucian or even Zen.
I don't think Neo-Confucianism is the sole key to understanding Japanese culture, but I can see how it could come across that way. Japanese culture is an amalgamation of too many elements for any one of them to the sole and essential key. Rather, I think it necessary component required for full understanding. It can no more explain Japanese culture by itself than Zen Buddhism can. I'll be honest, I'm rather frustrated with all sorts of concepts that are essential to nearly all branches of Buddhism being labeled as "Zen". Impermanence, for example, is certainly not something the Zen Buddhists have a copyright on. In fact, I think that the tea ceremony itself may well be a more important contributor to the philosophical development of Japan and the concept of michi than Zen was. I'm reading sections of Essays In Idleness, which lays a lot of groundwork for various strains of Japanese thought.

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Peter A Goldsbury wrote: View Post
PAG. Well, I note that you have adapted the title of your thread for Aikiweb, but kept to Budo for the same thread in E-Budo.com, which led to a lively discussion over there about people discussing koryu without having practiced it. So I think the main focus of your blog was koryu, but with gendai arts added, perhaps as an afterthought. The thrust of the article seems to be more effective with koryu than with a more ephemeral art like aikido. As I suggested earlier, there is a semantic fluidity involving being traditional, anachronistic, and irrelevant that might lead some to believe that they are similar in meaning.
I appreciate you pointing out that semantic fluidity. It's something I'll have to watch for going forward with these ideas. However, I think all of flavors of budo that claim some status other than simple competitive game are quite anachronistic, reaching back for the spirit of ages past. Certainly the weapons and scenarios used in Aikido practice and Judo kata are anachronistic, recalling traditions of fighting that disappeared quickly after 1868.

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Peter A Goldsbury wrote: View Post
PAG. One of the reasons for my earlier question and subsequent post was that that the meaning of anachronism has to be so qualified with a context that it loses its much of its use as a defining feature, hence my bemusement with your blog. I think that the relative weight of the poles of the contrast, between anachronism and relevance, is unbalanced, in the sense that being anachronistic is being given the same relative importance as being irrelevant.
You make a good point about the construction of the essay. I was playing with the impression that if something is anachronistic people generally think that it must also be irrelevant. This is an idea I want to combat. Clearly, I need to do a better job with the writing.

Thank you for the clear and useful comments.

Peter Boylan
Mugendo Budogu LLC
Budo Books, Videos, Equipment from Japan
http://www.budogu.com
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Old 11-27-2015, 09:10 AM   #22
sorokod
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Re: Aikido Is An Anachronism In the 21st Century

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Certainly the weapons and scenarios used in Aikido practice and Judo kata are anachronistic, recalling traditions of fighting that disappeared quickly after 1868.
In the same sense that the Olympic Games are anachronistic - resurrected in late 19th century following religions and political traditions of ancient Greece.

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Old 11-27-2015, 09:23 AM   #23
Peter Boylan
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Re: Aikido Is An Anachronism In the 21st Century

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David Soroko wrote: View Post
In the same sense that the Olympic Games are anachronistic - resurrected in late 19th century following religions and political traditions of ancient Greece.
I don't think the modern Olympics are anachronistic. They are a completely modern updated sports competition whose creation was inspired by an ancient tradition. They are not the same events.

Peter Boylan
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Old 11-27-2015, 02:03 PM   #24
Janet Rosen
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Re: Aikido Is An Anachronism In the 21st Century

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Peter Boylan wrote: View Post
I don't think the modern Olympics are anachronistic. They are a completely modern updated sports competition whose creation was inspired by an ancient tradition. They are not the same events.
I for one would enjoy seeing good-looking mostly nude young people doing acrobatics over bulls' horns. Oh, wait, that was Crete. Never mind.

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Old 11-27-2015, 02:46 PM   #25
sorokod
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Re: Aikido Is An Anachronism In the 21st Century

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Peter Boylan wrote: View Post
I don't think the modern Olympics are anachronistic. They are a completely modern updated sports competition whose creation was inspired by an ancient tradition. They are not the same events.
In what relevant way is that different from Aikido?

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