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Old 09-27-2015, 10:27 AM   #26
rugwithlegs
Dojo: Open Sky Aikikai
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Re: YouTube: Steven Seagal in Saratov, Russia

Quote:
Joe Curran wrote: View Post
Dear Jason, It should be self evident why the Senseis you mention do not take ukemi at demos. They are normally Tori not Uke. Would you expect them to act otherwise?In a non demo environment I have witnessed on many occasion Ukemi by the late Chiba Sensei.He took ukemi for rank beginners. Cheers ,Joe
Well, I am late to the party here, but I thought this story could get a smile out there.

A girlfriend arranged for me to do a demo at a local high school where she taught. Somehow events conspired and the one Uke got injured moving furniture that morning, and the other two just bailed. I took volunteers from the audience rather than cancelling. I demonstrated morote dori kokyuho with a back stretch, but the kid wasn't getting the back bend idea. I demonstrated bending back after giving him feedback on his Kokyu ho (going gently) - and then the little turd blossom swept my leg and kicked me when I was down. I laughed it off, and he was a weak tiny little precocious urchin that I could have killed in any number of ways that rapidly spun through my mind.

15 years ago. No public demos since. Very much my fault, but lesson learned. Kawahara sensei did take ukemi as well, but never left such an opening.
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Old 09-27-2015, 04:25 PM   #27
ryback
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Re: YouTube: Steven Seagal in Saratov, Russia

He surely looks heavier and slower than what he used to be, but maybe this is partly because of the uke...

If they are not familiar with Seagal sensei's technique or the kind of ukemi they should take in order to...survive it, he naturally would not do his thunder and lightning demo because he would end up...killing them.

So maybe he is holding back...a lot!
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Old 09-27-2015, 04:43 PM   #28
PeterR
 
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Re: YouTube: Steven Seagal in Saratov, Russia

Quote:
Yannis Mousoulis wrote: View Post
He surely looks heavier and slower than what he used to be, but maybe this is partly because of the uke...

If they are not familiar with Seagal sensei's technique or the kind of ukemi they should take in order to...survive it, he naturally would not do his thunder and lightning demo because he would end up...killing them.

So maybe he is holding back...a lot!
Serious? I was giving kudos to the uke's. They were doing most of the work. Sure let's blame the uke.

Peter Rehse Shodokan Aikido
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Old 09-28-2015, 03:10 AM   #29
Hellis
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Re: YouTube: Steven Seagal in Saratov, Russia

I must agree that Segal Sensei looks rather tired, and perhaps a little bored.

This discussion reminds me of a time I was teaching in the US at a USAB.
I was asked if I would do a small demonstration and a talk at the monthly officers wives club dinner. I agreed.
As I finished the small demo, I began to answer a few questions with the 120 wives and guests.
The officers wives asked many varied and interesting questions, until the wife of a colonel decided to ask a snotaquestion, she said " why do you do all the throwing and your students don't throw you, in Japan you a first a servant before you can be a master ".
I replied that at no point had I been introduced as a `master`,
I added, I assume your husband is some 30yrs younger than I am, If he is prepared to strap an 80 lb pack on his back and run up the nearby mountains alongside his men, then I will allow my students to throw me around all day long.
I don't think she was too popular with the other wives as my reply received applause.

Henry Ellis
Co-author of `Positive Aikido`
http://kazuo-chiba-sensei.blogspot.com/
http://rik-ellis.blogspot.com/
http://britishaikido.blogspot.com/
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Old 09-28-2015, 11:27 AM   #30
Michael Douglas
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Re: YouTube: Steven Seagal in Saratov, Russia

Quote:
Yannis Mousoulis wrote: View Post
... he naturally would not do his thunder and lightning demo because he would end up...killing them.
There aren't enough rolling eyes smiley faces in the world for that!
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Old 09-28-2015, 02:27 PM   #31
Demetrio Cereijo
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Re: YouTube: Steven Seagal in Saratov, Russia

Quote:
Yannis Mousoulis wrote: View Post
So maybe he is holding back...a lot!
Me too.
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Old 09-28-2015, 03:22 PM   #32
PeterR
 
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Re: YouTube: Steven Seagal in Saratov, Russia

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Demetrio Cereijo wrote: View Post
Me too.
Go on - you know you want to.

Peter Rehse Shodokan Aikido
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Old 09-29-2015, 01:16 AM   #33
ryback
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Re: YouTube: Steven Seagal in Saratov, Russia

Steven Seagal sensei is one of the greatest aikido masters I have ever seen and he really was thunder and lightning back in the day so nobody can take away from him his technical achievement, not even the bad side of himself can take it away. He deserves respect, a respect that other fatter, more boring and not even close to him technically teachers have been granted simply because they never starred in an action movies and never had his money, so there is no reason to envy them.

And the funniest thing is that I have seen many of those pathetic, fat, meat eating, stinking so-called teachers, who are simply dragging their huge asses from dojo to dojo playing the master having no technique at all, judging Seagal (and others of course) here on this forum, or in magazine interviews, while they have never put behind them even a tiny fraction of the work that people like Seagal sensei have put in order to achieve that speed and precision, that at least he used to have...
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Old 09-29-2015, 08:08 AM   #34
silversmoke
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Re: YouTube: Steven Seagal in Saratov, Russia

I would tend to agree withYannis on some points, went to a a Sensei Segall demo must be 20 years ago, other than my own instuctors at Ellis Schools of Traditional Aikido, have never seen matched anywhere else his skill at delivering the positive side of a technique, each to his own I've always respected his Aikido.
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Old 09-29-2015, 01:23 PM   #35
Michael Douglas
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Re: YouTube: Steven Seagal in Saratov, Russia

Quote:
Yannis Mousoulis wrote: View Post
He deserves respect, a respect that other fatter, more boring and not even close to him technically teachers have been granted simply because they never starred in an action movies and never had his money, so there is no reason to envy them..
If there are fatter and more boring teachers : name names!
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Old 09-29-2015, 02:27 PM   #36
ryback
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Re: YouTube: Steven Seagal in Saratov, Russia

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Michael Douglas wrote: View Post
If there are fatter and more boring teachers : name names!
I will not because I respect everyone of them with their rights and wrongs... Each one of us is responsible for his choices...
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Old 09-30-2015, 02:20 AM   #37
sakumeikan
Dojo: Sakumeikan N.E. Aikkai .Newcastle upon Tyne.
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Re: YouTube: Steven Seagal in Saratov, Russia

Quote:
Yannis Mousoulis wrote: View Post
Steven Seagal sensei is one of the greatest aikido masters I have ever seen and he really was thunder and lightning back in the day so nobody can take away from him his technical achievement, not even the bad side of himself can take it away. He deserves respect, a respect that other fatter, more boring and not even close to him technically teachers have been granted simply because they never starred in an action movies and never had his money, so there is no reason to envy them.

And the funniest thing is that I have seen many of those pathetic, fat, meat eating, stinking so-called teachers, who are simply dragging their huge asses from dojo to dojo playing the master having no technique at all, judging Seagal (and others of course) here on this forum, or in magazine interviews, while they have never put behind them even a tiny fraction of the work that people like Seagal sensei have put in order to achieve that speed and precision, that at least he used to have...
Dear Yannis,
You may have a point about Seagal Sensei having been a talented Aikido teacher /exponent at one time.Sad to say any talent he might have had appears to have diminished considerably.What more can one say?We all get older and time takes its toll.Cheers, Joe.Ps you are a bit harsh on the other teachers.
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Old 10-13-2015, 08:10 PM   #38
Phil Van Treese
Dojo: Tampa Judo and Aikido Dojo, Tampa, Fl
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Re: YouTube: Steven Seagal in Saratov, Russia

I agree Steven Seagal is fatter and slower than he used to be and all that. If anyone out there thinks they can handle Seagal Shihan, best of luck. I want to be there when you try. He's probably forgotten more aikido than we'll ever know. Isn't it easy to hide behind a computer and talk about a master?? Anyone up for saying it to his face????? I hope someday I will get to know 1/5th of what he knows.
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Old 10-16-2015, 08:59 AM   #39
G Sinclair
 
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Re: YouTube: Steven Seagal in Saratov, Russia

To the critical comments: Wow. Just wow. You all must have some amazing Aikido.

For everyone else, I am just going to add my 2 cents. Feel free to take it or leave it.

In 2010 this "unfit", "overweight", "bored" Shihan told me to stop punching him like an Aikidoka and to punch him like I was in a fight. It started off easy, still stepping in and just using hand speed - which is not as fast as it used to be but it is not bad. However, after a few moments I got a little carried away and realized I had slid back into my kickboxing days throwing combos and quick jabs. None of which landed. None. Not one. And when he was tired of deflecting, with a 'flick' of his hips I was upside down. This is who you are talking about.

What is the difference between then and what you are seeing in this video?

Ukemi.

My ukemi was razor sharp (not trying to impress anyone- but this is the key). There was no holding back. He was going full speed, and it was lightening. There was no room for any error in the ukemi. His angles and techniques are so tight it requires ukemi on a different level.

So watching these videos, I often feel sad for for him. It makes perfect sense to me why he looks disinterested, slow and using much looser angles. Not to be harsh or discredit anyone on the mat with him there (as they are all talented), but there is not an uke there skilled enough to allow him to execute his technique at the level he is capable of.

Twenty years ago he might have just broken these guys. Today, he takes the hit to keep them from harm. I refuse to ding him for that. In fact, I personally believe this would have made O'Sensei proud.

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Old 10-17-2015, 03:33 PM   #40
ryback
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Re: YouTube: Steven Seagal in Saratov, Russia

Quote:
Greg Sinclair wrote: View Post
To the critical comments: Wow. Just wow. You all must have some amazing Aikido.

For everyone else, I am just going to add my 2 cents. Feel free to take it or leave it.

In 2010 this "unfit", "overweight", "bored" Shihan told me to stop punching him like an Aikidoka and to punch him like I was in a fight. It started off easy, still stepping in and just using hand speed - which is not as fast as it used to be but it is not bad. However, after a few moments I got a little carried away and realized I had slid back into my kickboxing days throwing combos and quick jabs. None of which landed. None. Not one. And when he was tired of deflecting, with a 'flick' of his hips I was upside down. This is who you are talking about.

What is the difference between then and what you are seeing in this video?

Ukemi.

My ukemi was razor sharp (not trying to impress anyone- but this is the key). There was no holding back. He was going full speed, and it was lightening. There was no room for any error in the ukemi. His angles and techniques are so tight it requires ukemi on a different level.

So watching these videos, I often feel sad for for him. It makes perfect sense to me why he looks disinterested, slow and using much looser angles. Not to be harsh or discredit anyone on the mat with him there (as they are all talented), but there is not an uke there skilled enough to allow him to execute his technique at the level he is capable of.

Twenty years ago he might have just broken these guys. Today, he takes the hit to keep them from harm. I refuse to ding him for that. In fact, I personally believe this would have made O'Sensei proud.
Exactly my point! It's obvious the uke cannot keep up with his full speed demo and that's not blaming them, simply stating a fact...

So...I am not the only stupid, blind person here (for whom there are not enough ridiculous smiling faces ) after all, right? There are other people out there with whom we share the same..."illusions"...

Instead of bad mouthing a grand master like Seagal sensei we should concentrate on achieving his level of effectiveness, we would keep the art true and alive that way! Great post!
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Old 10-17-2015, 03:38 PM   #41
ryback
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Re: YouTube: Steven Seagal in Saratov, Russia

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Phil Van Treese wrote: View Post
I agree Steven Seagal is fatter and slower than he used to be and all that. If anyone out there thinks they can handle Seagal Shihan, best of luck. I want to be there when you try. He's probably forgotten more aikido than we'll ever know. Isn't it easy to hide behind a computer and talk about a master?? Anyone up for saying it to his face????? I hope someday I will get to know 1/5th of what he knows.
Indeed! Very good post! I am at the same age he was when he did Above the Law and though I try to concentrate on doing fast, explosive yet effective and precise technique, still seems I have a looooong way to go before I am anywhere close to what he was doing back then... So...pure respect is what I got for him...
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