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Old 09-20-2015, 05:36 PM   #1951
Demetrio Cereijo
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Re: Aikido does not work at all in a fight.

LOL

You got me.
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Old 09-20-2015, 07:01 PM   #1952
rugwithlegs
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Re: Aikido does not work at all in a fight.

I liked him better when he was making people eat deer penises on Fear Factor. Sell Out!
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Old 09-20-2015, 07:05 PM   #1953
mathewjgano
 
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Re: Aikido does not work at all in a fight.

Quote:
Demetrio Cereijo wrote: View Post
OK, I'll bite..

Who amongst you is going to show Rogan how wrong he is?
I totally would, but I got this thing at a place...and then after that I got this other thing...and these posts aren't going to type themselves. Very busy schedule you see, or I totally would.

To my mind, the issue of whether or not something is going to "work in a fight" comes down to a caveat or two: against whom, under what circumstances, etc.?

Gambarimashyo!
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Old 09-20-2015, 07:27 PM   #1954
Rupert Atkinson
 
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Re: Aikido does not work at all in a fight.

Aikido - the techniques - as people know it to be - is not supposed to work in a fight. It is not Ai-ki-do; it is Aiki-do = The Way of Aiki -- a way to develop aiki. The techniques of Aiki-do are meant to help develop aiki. They are not techniques useful for fighting per se. I have been thinking, searching, messing with this for quite some time. There is the soft 'fluffy' type of aiki and there is a harder 'active' type that is practical. Both are necessary but the harder type is definitely good for fighting, if that is what you want to do.

Is there anybody out there ...

Last edited by Rupert Atkinson : 09-20-2015 at 07:31 PM.

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Old 09-21-2015, 05:18 AM   #1955
Amir Krause
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Re: Aikido does not work at all in a fight.

Quote:
Rupert Atkinson wrote: View Post
Aikido - the techniques - as people know it to be - is not supposed to work in a fight. It is not Ai-ki-do; it is Aiki-do = The Way of Aiki -- a way to develop aiki. The techniques of Aiki-do are meant to help develop aiki. They are not techniques useful for fighting per se. I have been thinking, searching, messing with this for quite some time. There is the soft 'fluffy' type of aiki and there is a harder 'active' type that is practical. Both are necessary but the harder type is definitely good for fighting, if that is what you want to do.

Is there anybody out there ...
Almost all techniques in Aikido are not unique, same techniques may be found in jujutsu and were used for fighting. Very similar techniques exist in various other fighting styles. It's not the techniques, it is how you train \ practice. And different places teach different things ...

Still amazed this old thread had come up again
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Old 09-21-2015, 06:50 AM   #1956
jdm4life
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Re: Aikido does not work at all in a fight.

Quote:
Amir Krause wrote: View Post
Almost all techniques in Aikido are not unique, same techniques may be found in jujutsu and were used for fighting. Very similar techniques exist in various other fighting styles. It's not the techniques, it is how you train \ practice. And different places teach different things ...

Still amazed this old thread had come up again
It comes up time and again because the same questions still arise about aikido and its purpose, effectiveness................ saying its not about fighting to people who practice is pointless........ Humans look for meaning and logic and aikido means different things to different people.........but why was it developed in the first place....in a post war era.......the emphasis may have been directed towards hugging trees and being nice, but the reality of the modern day contradicts that philosophy because there are a lot of nasty shits out there who hurt people on a daily basis...... peoples argument stands unchallenged or at least unexplained, its incomplete.

Aikido doesnt work in a fight.............depending how you approach that statement depends where the discussion goes......we know it isn't a fighting system...if you say aikido is of no use if you are attacked.....then what?

All that is a moot point aswell because I dont get into fights, I dont look to get into fights, Id avoid it at all costs but knowing your are participating in a self defense art that "could" get you out of a scrape if that situation ever presented itself feels better than knowing you are practicing a martial art which will be of no use to you whatsoever.

Despite or in spite of.

Last edited by jdm4life : 09-21-2015 at 06:58 AM.
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Old 09-21-2015, 08:02 AM   #1957
Amir Krause
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Re: Aikido does not work at all in a fight.

Quote:
Stephen Irving wrote: View Post
It comes up time and again because the same questions still arise about aikido and its purpose, effectiveness................ saying its not about fighting to people who practice is pointless........ Humans look for meaning and logic and aikido means different things to different people.........but why was it developed in the first place....in a post war era.......the emphasis may have been directed towards hugging trees and being nice, but the reality of the modern day contradicts that philosophy because there are a lot of nasty shits out there who hurt people on a daily basis...... peoples argument stands unchallenged or at least unexplained, its incomplete.

Aikido doesnt work in a fight.............depending how you approach that statement depends where the discussion goes......we know it isn't a fighting system...if you say aikido is of no use if you are attacked.....then what?

All that is a moot point aswell because I dont get into fights, I dont look to get into fights, Id avoid it at all costs but knowing your are participating in a self defense art that "could" get you out of a scrape if that situation ever presented itself feels better than knowing you are practicing a martial art which will be of no use to you whatsoever.

Despite or in spite of.
As someone who found interest in aikido history, trying to figure out the history of the Aikido I keep learning (Korindo Aikido) and it's connection to Ueshiba:
Ueshiba Aikido was mostly developed before WWII. It's true, the art kept changing, but it's doubtful the techniques themselves were changed. Especially since as pointed out before, same techniques appear in multiple Ju-Jutsu styles, and other systems have them too.

Hence - it's not the techniques, nor the history. It's the practitioner mindset, and those change across sub-styles, teachers and students. Some places teach Aikido which wouldn't work in a fight, others teach Aikido which could work, just like any other M.A. - if the student is good enough.
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Old 09-21-2015, 09:43 AM   #1958
lbb
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Re: Aikido does not work at all in a fight.

Again with this thread?

If you keep biting on the same old stinky bait, that should tell you something, shouldn't it?
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Old 09-21-2015, 09:50 AM   #1959
kewms
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Re: Aikido does not work at all in a fight.

Some of the post-war aikido students used to work as strike breakers. Others used to go to the bars where longshoremen hung out and pick fights just to "see if this stuff works."

I do not personally recommend this strategy...

If you think aikido is "of no use whatsoever," why are you here?

Ultimately, the question is impossible to answer via an internet forum. Find a willing partner, think of a scenario that seems reasonable to you, and see what happens.

Katherine
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Old 09-21-2015, 06:31 PM   #1960
jdm4life
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Re: Aikido does not work at all in a fight.

Quote:
Katherine Derbyshire wrote: View Post
Some of the post-war aikido students used to work as strike breakers. Others used to go to the bars where longshoremen hung out and pick fights just to "see if this stuff works."

I do not personally recommend this strategy...

If you think aikido is "of no use whatsoever," why are you here?

Ultimately, the question is impossible to answer via an internet forum. Find a willing partner, think of a scenario that seems reasonable to you, and see what happens.

Katherine
I dont, I just find it strange that its subjected to so much scrutiny and not just by people who have never been to a practice session.
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Old 09-21-2015, 11:51 PM   #1961
kewms
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Re: Aikido does not work at all in a fight.

There is a certain fraction of the aikido community that tends to look down their noses at students of other martial arts in general and combat sports in particular. The more vocal one is about "resolving conflicts without fighting," the more scrutiny one's ability (or lack thereof) is likely to attract. Especially among people whose fighting ability is an important part of their self-image.

There are also some demonstrations of aikido out there -- some of them by people with big numbers after their names -- that are frankly embarrassing, even to aikidoka. Someone who has personal experience with karate will be able to dismiss the bad karate videos that exist, but won't have any context for the bad aikido videos.

Katherine
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Old 09-22-2015, 04:38 AM   #1962
jdm4life
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Re: Aikido does not work at all in a fight.

Quote:
Katherine Derbyshire wrote: View Post

There are also some demonstrations of aikido out there -- some of them by people with big numbers after their names -- that are frankly embarrassing, even to aikidoka. Someone who has personal experience with karate will be able to dismiss the bad karate videos that exist, but won't have any context for the bad aikido videos.

Katherine
Indeed...... Good point. Ive seen some of these videos and it makes me cringe.
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Old 10-18-2016, 06:02 PM   #1963
SlowLerner
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Re: Aikido does not work at all in a fight.

OP is right, you can't fight with Aikido.
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Old 10-18-2016, 06:22 PM   #1964
SlowLerner
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Re: Aikido does not work at all in a fight.

Is fighting self defence?
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Old 10-18-2016, 09:55 PM   #1965
SlowLerner
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Re: Aikido does not work at all in a fight.

Keep in mind when you are practising that uke can't reach you with a free hand. They may draw a concealed weapon during the movement.
Aikido techniques and pins, like Ikkyo, if done correctly should address this. Technique is important.

Last edited by SlowLerner : 10-18-2016 at 10:03 PM.
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Old 10-19-2016, 01:24 AM   #1966
Tim Ruijs
 
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Re: Aikido does not work at all in a fight.

september 22nd 2015...
revived!

In a real fight:
* If you make a bad decision, you die.
* If you don't decide anything, you die.
Aikido teaches you how to decide.
www.aikido-makato.nl
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Old 10-21-2016, 11:00 PM   #1967
ryback
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Re: Aikido does not work at all in a fight.

This has gone so long, I can't even remember if I have already posted in this thread, so I hope I am not repeating myself here...
Anyway, what I would like to say applies generally, no matter how many times this subject will be addressed or how long this thread will end up to be.
If the OP, or anybody else who have posted on the thread thinks that Aikido doesn't work in a fight, then the only thing they can actually mean is that THEIR Aikido doesn't work. In my experience Aikido works perfectly in any form of a fighting situation, against one or multiple attackers, against armed or unarmed people, against other martial artists if need be. The only factor is how good the Aikidoist is.
There are many dojos out there that have a sign outside their doors that says "Aikido" and some of them are teaching a watered down Aiki Yoga of, some kind just fat people trying to...harmonize their asses together. Some of these dojos have legitimate Aikikai recognitions. Some of those...teachers have legitimate ranks and that fact alone shows how...legitimate a rank can be. In Martial Arts, the only rank that counts is effective technique that has the potential to work against anything.
So what do you mean by saying "Aikido doesn't work in a fight"? What do you mean when you say the word Aikido? Because, to me, what those dojos mentioned above teach, have nothing to do with Aikido.
So if people stop running around incompetent teachers who are promising great recognitions and start pursuing a serious training, a deep study of the Art in a dojo that teaches the practical application of Aikido, they will see that it works!
There are plenty of examples out there, Steven Seagal Sensei, Larry Reynosa Sensei, Nenad Ikras, Lenny Sly.... I don't necessarily agree with everyone's approach but technically they prove that Aikido actually works!
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Old 11-01-2016, 09:26 PM   #1968
Mark Harrington
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Re: Aikido does not work...

Why would you visit a forum for a martial art to denigrate it? This is simply irimi trolling and should be blended away from.

But since we're here...

When a pitcher throws a strike, do we say baseball worked for him? Or do we say baseball didn't work for the batter?

On the next pitch, if the batter puts it in play, do we say baseball worked for the batter? Or do we say baseball didn't work for the pitcher?

Now the ball is in the air, we can ask the same questions about the fielders, on and on.

Similarly, in a fight, it is the fighter and his skills, his fitness, and to some degree, the element of surprise. Win or lose, it is not an indictment of the art. The most the original poster can honestly say is that the aikidoka he has seen were not effective in their fights.
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Old 11-04-2016, 09:05 AM   #1969
sakumeikan
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Re: Aikido does not work at all in a fight.

Quote:
Stephen Irving wrote: View Post
He has a black belt in BJJ.....not me.
A Black belt nowadays is hardly a sign that anybody is an expert..Judo grades for example are almost like hire purchase agreements ie you get one over time period like an instalment plan..In my day you had a line up test.Only when you did the business on your opponents did you get upgraded.

Some Aikido schools are useless.The teachers give themselves high grades and in general some of them would be knocked about by an angry fly.The Aikido teachers I have met were no soft touches.If required they could be quite formidable.As for Joe Rogan how much personal experience has he had in terms of Aikido?I dont criticise MMA .Reason I do not practice this discipline.
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Old 03-03-2017, 07:04 AM   #1970
rgfox5
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Re: Aikido does not work at all in a fight.

Me credentials: I did aikido for 15 years and I have a 1st degree black belt. I did karate for 10 and I have a 1st degree black belt. I am currently training in BJJ where I have a white belt. This is a recurring topic and thread because it is very relevant. People who study martial arts, in general, do so to be able to fight and defend themselves. Aikido gets criticized a lot for being ineffective. Why?

I believe it is because of the way many dojos train. Cooperation is mandatory. This is supposedly so that people can train without getting hurt. There is no competition. I don't know why that is. Attacks are a second thought and are lame. Even at the advanced level, the attacks are single punches and the arm is not retracted quickly as in a real strike; this is so that nage can do the technique. Also uke steps into the punch again in the spirit of cooperation.

Somehow, Morihei Ueshiba's martial art has been made into a flowing, cooperative art that is not martial. If you look at his videos when he was old, you see a lot of this nonsense, ukes flying everywhere from a slight touch or a motion. But before he got old, his dojo was known as "Hell Dojo" and had a reputation of being extremely hard. Aikido principles are sound, it is composed of many elements from weapons, jiu-jitsu, judo. But somehow, maybe from the flowery nonsense he demonstrated towards the end of his life, most aikido dojos practice such that you can get really good at aikido, but still not be able to defend yourself. Take an Ikeda Sensei seminar. Now I have great respect for Ikeda Sensei and would not want to meet him in a fight. But to have a whole seminar of wrist-grabbing as the attack? Useless. I was in a Steven Segal dojo once, though, and those guys trained much more realistically, hard core. And guess what, they get injured much more. But how can you train realistically and not get injured.

My long-winded opinion is that aikido dojos need to reform the way they train, or aikido will continued to be practiced way below its potential.

A final example of bad training: I was training with a 5th degree black belt at Shobukan Dojo in DC. The attack was a jab. So I punched him in the face and cut his lip. He shouted at me and got really pissed off. I just shrugged and said well you should have blocked it. Kick it up a notch people, on the street folks are not going to leave their arm hanging out there or throw just one punch.
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Old 03-03-2017, 07:45 AM   #1971
lbb
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Re: Aikido does not work at all in a fight.

Well, that's a new one, Richard. Usually it's the newbies who just joined aikiweb and who feel the need to comment on every thread on the site, including ones that have been moribund for years.
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Old 03-03-2017, 08:29 AM   #1972
rgfox5
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Re: Aikido does not work at all in a fight.

Quote:
Mary Malmros wrote: View Post
Well, that's a new one, Richard. Usually it's the newbies who just joined aikiweb and who feel the need to comment on every thread on the site, including ones that have been moribund for years.
Quite a pointless reply, but hopefully you feel better getting that off your chest.
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Old 03-03-2017, 08:33 AM   #1973
Demetrio Cereijo
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Re: Aikido does not work at all in a fight.

Quote:
Richard Fox wrote: View Post
Quite a pointless reply, but hopefully you feel better getting that off your chest.
She's helping to get the thread to the 2000 post mark.
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Old 03-03-2017, 09:32 AM   #1974
fatebass21
 
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Re: Aikido does not work at all in a fight.

1974...

Chris Sawyer
Training day is every day
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Old 03-03-2017, 09:34 AM   #1975
lbb
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Re: Aikido does not work at all in a fight.

Quote:
Richard Fox wrote: View Post
Quite a pointless reply, but hopefully you feel better getting that off your chest.
I do! This thread is a veritable rite of passage, kind of like your first nikkyo!
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