Welcome to AikiWeb Aikido Information
AikiWeb: The Source for Aikido Information
AikiWeb's principal purpose is to serve the Internet community as a repository and dissemination point for aikido information.

Sections
home
aikido articles
columns

Discussions
forums
aikiblogs

Databases
dojo search
seminars
image gallery
supplies
links directory

Reviews
book reviews
video reviews
dvd reviews
equip. reviews

News
submit
archive

Miscellaneous
newsletter
rss feeds
polls
about

Follow us on



Home > AikiWeb Aikido Forums
Go Back   AikiWeb Aikido Forums > General

Hello and thank you for visiting AikiWeb, the world's most active online Aikido community! This site is home to over 22,000 aikido practitioners from around the world and covers a wide range of aikido topics including techniques, philosophy, history, humor, beginner issues, the marketplace, and more.

If you wish to join in the discussions or use the other advanced features available, you will need to register first. Registration is absolutely free and takes only a few minutes to complete so sign up today!

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 08-17-2015, 05:43 AM   #1
dongaleb
Dojo: Manila Aikido Club
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 31
Philippines
Offline
Kokyu Nage - Irimi

Kokyu Nage - Irimi or Irimi Nage.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hhvOZm7gVCQ
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-17-2015, 12:15 PM   #2
Cliff Judge
Location: Kawasaki, Kanagawa
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 1,267
Japan
Offline
Re: Kokyu Nage - Irimi

Which styles call this Kokyu Nage? Aikikai and related groups call this Irimi Nage. I'm curious about the difference in nomenclature.
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-17-2015, 12:26 PM   #3
rugwithlegs
Dojo: Open Sky Aikikai
Location: Durham, NC
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 301
United_States
Offline
Re: Kokyu Nage - Irimi

After the separation of Tohei, he called it Kokyunage.
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-17-2015, 01:15 PM   #4
Janet Rosen
  AikiWeb Forums Contributing Member
 
Janet Rosen's Avatar
Location: Left Coast
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 4,245
Offline
Re: Kokyu Nage - Irimi

Quote:
John Hillson wrote: View Post
After the separation of Tohei, he called it Kokyunage.
And reflecting that Tohei Sensei was Chief Instructor at Aikikai Hombu Dojo "pre-split" the mainstream book "Aikido and the Dynamic Sphere" retains the use of kokyunage for this technique (well at least my copies from 1990s still did)

Janet Rosen
http://www.zanshinart.com
"peace will enter when hate is gone"--percy mayfield
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-17-2015, 01:48 PM   #5
Michael Hackett
Dojo: Kenshinkan Dojo (Aikido of North County) Vista, CA
Location: Oceanside, California
Join Date: Oct 2000
Posts: 1,188
Offline
Re: Kokyu Nage - Irimi

In the AAA what was demonstrated is called iriminage because Nage continues entering with the leg nearest to Uke. If Nage maintains his hamni without stepping through, we call it kiokyunage. The last technique shown in the video we would identify as sokomen iriminage.

Michael
"Leave the gun. Bring the cannoli."
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-17-2015, 04:54 PM   #6
rugwithlegs
Dojo: Open Sky Aikikai
Location: Durham, NC
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 301
United_States
Offline
Re: Kokyu Nage - Irimi

Good point Janet, but I still see groups like Yoshinkan that date back to the 1950s using Iriminage. (Though Shomen Iriminage and Sokumen Iriminage).

The Dynamic Sphere was published in 1973, which does predate the split. Most Americans were exposed to Aikido through Tohei since the mid to late 1950s. The name seems to be used in Tohei lineage schools in this fashion. I wasn't there - Tohei split when I was four years old.

My own personal pet peeve about Kokyunage - it means too much already. While the dojo I am at now uses Kokyunage for sayunage/Sokumen Iriminage, I think Iriminage because my first teacher once called it that, but I use Sokumen because I keep them separate. I've been told to call all the Shodokan Atemi Waza by Kokyunage as well, and I prefer to use Shomen Ate, etc. The entire Saito Sensei book on Kokyunage is Shomen Ate, Udekimenage (or tenbinage), Sokumen Iriminage, and variations on Sumiotoshi and Tenchinage with a few additional ideas thrown in. All this was before I was told to call a technique I learned as Iriminage was now called Kokyunage. If I call this one thing Iriminage, Kokyunage will not diminish in prominence or importance to my Aikido.

Maybe there are some differences in the performance? The Kokyunage advocate who taught me was clear that there was no Kuzushi forward, just a lead and then cut the head. The Iriminage folks all break Uke forward, then catch the recovery. Maybe it's not the same.
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-17-2015, 06:48 PM   #7
Rupert Atkinson
 
Rupert Atkinson's Avatar
Dojo: Wherever I am.
Location: New Zealand
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 884
United Kingdom
Offline
Re: Kokyu Nage - Irimi

That was irimi-nage. The first half of the vid was tenkan not irimi. The last one was kokyu-nage. If we can't all agree on names how can we talk about anything? There are only ten or so main techniques after all.

Last edited by Rupert Atkinson : 08-17-2015 at 06:51 PM.

  Reply With Quote
Old 08-18-2015, 04:02 AM   #8
dongaleb
Dojo: Manila Aikido Club
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 31
Philippines
Offline
Re: Kokyu Nage - Irimi

There is a description on the video just incase you missed it here it is;

" Kokyu Nage - Irimi . The throw is Irimi, while the initial block and evasion can be irimi or tenkan."

It should say;

"Irimi Nage, The throw is Irimi, while the initial block and evasion can be irimi or tenkan."

Kokyu Nage - Tenkan would be the first part but instead of a forward step you would do a step back.
Kokyu Nage - Irimi, the nage steps forward or enter.
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-18-2015, 04:07 AM   #9
dongaleb
Dojo: Manila Aikido Club
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 31
Philippines
Offline
Re: Kokyu Nage - Irimi

There is a description on the video just incase you missed it here it is;

" Kokyu Nage - Irimi . The throw is Irimi, while the initial block and evasion can be irimi or tenkan."

It should say;

"Irimi Nage, The throw is Irimi, while the initial block and evasion can be irimi or tenkan."

Kokyu Nage - Tenkan would be the first part but instead of a forward step you would do a step back.
Kokyu Nage - Irimi, The uke is not led around but in a straight line, then the nage steps forward or enter.
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-18-2015, 04:13 AM   #10
PeterR
 
PeterR's Avatar
Dojo: Shodokan Honbu (Osaka)
Location: Himeji, Japan
Join Date: Mar 2001
Posts: 3,206
Japan
Offline
Re: Kokyu Nage - Irimi

Kokyu Nage - is a bucket term and as such has no real value in defining anything.

Peter Rehse Shodokan Aikido
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-18-2015, 08:19 AM   #11
Cliff Judge
Location: Kawasaki, Kanagawa
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 1,267
Japan
Offline
Re: Kokyu Nage - Irimi

In my experience everything I know of as kokyunage - and we tend to use the term for a lot of techniques in ASU - has a general rhythm to it where you are absorbing uke and then expelling them. I can almost see irimi nage belonging to this class but I can never quite get it to work that way.
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-18-2015, 12:34 PM   #12
Riai Maori
 
Riai Maori's Avatar
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 141
New Zealand-Maori
Offline
Re: Kokyu Nage - Irimi

Quote:
Peter Rehse wrote: View Post
Kokyu Nage - is a bucket term and as such has no real value in defining anything.
Exactly what my Iwama Sensei tells us students. He goes on further to say, that Saito Sensei told him, when O'sensei didn't have a name for a technique, he called it Kokyu Nage. And yes the demonstration shows both Ura and Omote Irimi Nage.

Motto tsuyoku
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-27-2015, 12:06 AM   #13
dongaleb
Dojo: Manila Aikido Club
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 31
Philippines
Offline
Re: Kokyu Nage - Irimi

On that note, here are some more kokyu nage;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LpcrL0FX-XU
  Reply With Quote

Please visit our sponsor:

AikiWeb Sponsored Links - Place your Aikido link here for only $10!



Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Correlation of Aikido and Daito-Ryu Waza John Driscoll Columns 29 07-26-2016 06:57 AM
Kokyu Ryoku iwamaki Voices of Experience 0 10-25-2012 12:56 PM
Irimi Nage as Kokyu nage? Bryan Sproles Techniques 15 07-14-2008 01:32 PM
committed attack/sensitive ukemi paradox Janet Rosen Training 30 10-13-2005 07:18 PM
Randori Seminar with George Ledyard Sensei aikibaka131 Seminars 11 10-24-2003 12:30 AM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 04:50 PM.



vBulletin Copyright © 2000-2016 Jelsoft Enterprises Limited
----------
Copyright 1997-2016 AikiWeb and its Authors, All Rights Reserved.
----------
For questions and comments about this website:
Send E-mail
plainlaid-picaresque outchasing-protistan explicantia-altarage seaford-stellionate