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Old 03-29-2009, 02:41 AM   #51
mickeygelum
 
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Re: Primary Techniques for Self Defense

One should train in Aikido, in order to understand Aikido. If one does not train in Aikido, how would you know when the answer to ones question was sufficiently answered or not?

Just my two cents...
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Old 03-29-2009, 08:57 AM   #52
Flintstone
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Re: Primary Techniques for Self Defense

Quote:
Michael Gelum wrote: View Post
One should train in Aikido, in order to understand Aikido. If one does not train in Aikido, how would you know when the answer to ones question was sufficiently answered or not?
Well, I do train (in) Aikido. Not claiming to understand the deep mysteries of the art if they exist at all, but I guess I have a fair grasp of what is it about .
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Old 03-29-2009, 07:25 PM   #53
eyrie
 
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Re: Primary Techniques for Self Defense

Quote:
mickeygelum wrote:
One should train in Aikido, in order to understand Aikido. If one does not train in Aikido, how would you know when the answer to ones question was sufficiently answered or not?
Maybe it's just me, but to suggest that there exists 2 primary Aikido techniques of choice "to know for use in a self defense situation", and to insist upon the answer that one wants to hear, is both ignorant and naive. The insinuation that the question can only be satisfactorily answered by one who has trained in, and understands Aikido, is equally ignorant and naive.

Ignatius
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Old 03-29-2009, 07:48 PM   #54
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Re: Primary Techniques for Self Defense

Mr Teo....I wholeheartedly agree with your first point, not the second. It is clear that you did not comprehend my thought.

Mr Villanueva...Why are you taking it personal? If you are looking for a debate, you will not receive one. The OP is flawed, hence the sarcasm.

Train well,

Mickey

Last edited by mickeygelum : 03-29-2009 at 07:50 PM. Reason: misspelled Villanueva
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Old 03-29-2009, 08:01 PM   #55
eyrie
 
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Re: Primary Techniques for Self Defense

Ah... my apologies Mr Gelum, it appears, like Alejandro, I read you wrong. Perhaps your last sentence should read "If one does not train in Aikido, how would <strike>you</strike> ONE know when the answer to ones question was sufficiently answered or not?"

Last edited by eyrie : 03-29-2009 at 08:04 PM. Reason: clarity

Ignatius
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Old 03-29-2009, 08:11 PM   #56
Flintstone
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Re: Primary Techniques for Self Defense

Not personal, Mr. Gelum. Anyway I don't know what's wrong with a debate, or what an OP is. Sorry to interrupt. Please, go on. He's just not getting a suitable answer.

If I ask you what's your favorite colour, I'm not expecting to receive such answers as "it depends on the weather", or "asking for a colour is naive, you should concentrate in wavelengths instead", or "any color is ok, as long as the brush you use for painting is of the right thickness". But, once again, maybe it's just me.
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Old 03-29-2009, 08:22 PM   #57
eyrie
 
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Re: Primary Techniques for Self Defense

OP = Original Post(er).

Enquiring as to what someone's favorite colors are, isn't the same thing. The OP is eliciting subjective responses which are neither appropriate nor adequate, to what essentially requires an objective assessment.

As Mr Gelum has pointed out, the question is flawed. And the numerous responses thus far, if they are any indication, quite blatantly points this out.

Ignatius
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Old 03-29-2009, 08:59 PM   #58
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Re: Primary Techniques for Self Defense

Quote:
David Skaggs wrote: View Post
Which Aikido technique would be your first choice to know for use in a self defense situation?

Which Aikido technique would be your second choice to know for use in a self defense situation?

David
Just two simple questions that could easily be answered by two simple answers.

Thank you all who answered.

David
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Old 03-30-2009, 02:57 AM   #59
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Re: Primary Techniques for Self Defense

Quote:
Ignatius Teo wrote: View Post
OP = Original Post(er).
Thanks for that. Now back to my dictionary .
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Old 03-30-2009, 06:40 AM   #60
philippe willaume
 
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Re: Primary Techniques for Self Defense

Quote:
David Skaggs wrote: View Post
Which Aikido technique would be your first choice to know for use in a self defense situation?

Which Aikido technique would be your second choice to know for use in a self defense situation?

David
Hello mate
In 1, I would say the ability to deliver a meaningful shomen (up and down) (or yokomen since there is only the very last par that is different between shomen and yokomen we could say that it is just about the same strike) from tenkan, irimi and tenchin.
That does imply knowing large vulnerable area on the body to aim at.

In 2 using that initial strike to get
Either he head with tenchin/irimi nague including yokomen uchi irimi nague (p81 of budo) and chokumem p83 of budo) or kubinague

Or the hips (aikio tochi or tenchi nague using the leg) witch are really variation on shooting.

Or ikkio,rokyo, ude-osae, shiho nague including the ippon sheio-nague version/jije garami if you get both (I do not know the aikido name attacking the elbow before the wrist.

For me the idea is you strike is meaningful, he will not be able to move his head, his hips and his arm at the same time. He will have to leave one of those behind. There is really no point of going after the one he is moving.

phil

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In the Land of Windsor where phlip phlop live.
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Old 03-31-2009, 07:49 AM   #61
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Re: Primary Techniques for Self Defense

Quote:
David Skaggs wrote: View Post
Just two simple questions that could easily be answered by two simple answers.
That neatly sums up your problem. The questions appear simple, but they cannot be "easily answered".

Techniques are actually secondary in a self defence situation. And I mean that both in the sense that they happen second, and that they are less important .

Contrary to one of your earlier posts, you actually do have to wait until the attack happens to "figure out" which technique you might apply. You must defend yourself first. What technique (if any) you use comes after that. How you defend yourself depends on the attack.
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Old 03-31-2009, 09:27 AM   #62
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Re: Primary Techniques for Self Defense

It would depend on the attack, until I know what I have to work with, it's impossible to say.

"Logical consequences are the scarecrows of fools and the beacons of wise men" - Thomas Henry Huxley
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Old 03-31-2009, 09:31 AM   #63
tarik
 
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Re: Primary Techniques for Self Defense

Quote:
Tom Quinn wrote: View Post
It would depend on the attack, until I know what I have to work with, it's impossible to say.
Speaking from personal experience, I think if it's real stuff, it will likely to be impossible to say after it happened as well. You'll just know if it worked, or if it didn't, and you MIGHT remember exactly what happened, but there's a good chance you won't remember details, unless your life wasn't really in danger and you knew it all along.

Tarik Ghbeish
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MASAKATSU AGATSU -- "The true victory of self-mastery."
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Old 03-31-2009, 09:47 AM   #64
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Re: Primary Techniques for Self Defense

Quote:
Tarik Ghbeish wrote: View Post
Speaking from personal experience, I think if it's real stuff, it will likely to be impossible to say after it happened as well. You'll just know if it worked, or if it didn't, and you MIGHT remember exactly what happened, but there's a good chance you won't remember details, unless your life wasn't really in danger and you knew it all along.
Agreed, trying to figure out what you're going to do before you know how you're being attacked or what you're defending against, or how many, or the environmental factors, or any number of other considerations is an exercise in futility, Until you're in that situation, and have to act to defend yourself, it's all fantasy, like planning what you're going to do with all your money when you win the lottery.

Last edited by morph4me : 03-31-2009 at 09:54 AM. Reason: spelling

"Logical consequences are the scarecrows of fools and the beacons of wise men" - Thomas Henry Huxley
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Old 03-31-2009, 10:11 AM   #65
Faith Hansen
 
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Re: Primary Techniques for Self Defense

The first technique I would try would be "ass and elbows". Cuz that's all they'd see as I got the heck out of there!

Faeth
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Old 03-31-2009, 03:26 PM   #66
Phil Van Treese
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Re: Primary Techniques for Self Defense

What would be the best technique??? Reaction to the aggression and take it from there. Try, if possible, to maintain your ma ai (distance) and if the person makes an aggressive move towards, react and do what you have to do.
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Old 03-31-2009, 03:32 PM   #67
Keith Larman
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Re: Primary Techniques for Self Defense

If "Run Away! Run Away!" doesn't work, then Glock-fu is always a good backup. Done in a flowing, spiritually fulfilling manner with the spirit of Katsujinken of course...

But then again there's always "Louisville Slugger-Ryu"... Followed by "Soil your pants and babble incoherently-do". No one wants to mess with *that* guy... Eeeeuuuuwwww.

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Old 04-17-2009, 03:32 PM   #68
Phil Van Treese
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Re: Primary Techniques for Self Defense

Irimi Nage would do wonders for his "crash landing"!!!
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Old 04-18-2009, 10:21 AM   #69
Maarten De Queecker
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Re: Primary Techniques for Self Defense

I don't have any experience in defending myself on the street since I live in a pretty safe town but if I had to name some primary techniques for self defence I'd say all and none.

If you are sure there is no other option other than fighting, make the first step. Do a fast shomen uchi (starting low and going up, like an uppercut) to his head -preferably his nose-, see how he reacts. If he holds his hands in front of his head, you can easily proceed into ikkyo, kote gaeshi, shiho nage, etc. If he steps aside, you have an opening to "bravely take to your feet", to continue the monty python referencing done in this topic. The element of surprise, is always important. Of course, this is a mindset very much unlike that of most aikidoka, who are taught to respond to attacks instead of provoking them.

Stay calm and show confidence, and even a bit arrogance (e.g. having an evil grin on your face as if you're going to enjoy it). If your opponent sees this he might get a bit intimidated and lose some of his fighting spirit. Never underestimate the psychological side of a fight.

So what I mean with "all and none" is that one should never fix on using one single technique. That won't work. Knowing and seeing how one technique can flow into another is very important here. Main things to keep in mind are Centre and Control.
On the other hand, if you can startle your opponent enough with that first atemi to give you an opening that allows you to jump past him and beat a very brave retreat, you have the perfect aikido, IMHO. There was no conflict and noone was harmed and you reacted in harmony to the attacker's reaction.

My sensei says that the greatest misconception in aikido is that it is a purely defensive art. You choose your opponent (in case of multiple attackers) and fight him on your own terms as much as possible. If one just stands there and wait for the attack to come, he/she's is a sitting duck. In MMA you never see someone waiting for his opponent to attack so he/she can apply a techique on him/her. They take the initiative as often as possible.

Just my €/$/ 0,02.

Last edited by Maarten De Queecker : 04-18-2009 at 10:31 AM. Reason: completeness's sake (grammar, suggestions)
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Old 06-22-2015, 11:45 AM   #70
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Re: Primary Techniques for Self Defense

Quote:
Keith Larman wrote: View Post
If "Run Away! Run Away!" doesn't work, then Glock-fu is always a good backup. Done in a flowing, spiritually fulfilling manner with the spirit of Katsujinken of course..
A Glock cannot be used in any positive spiritual manner. That's like inviting Satan to a tent revival with hope to baptize him.

OTOH, I have noticed that some techniques leave me in a pretty good position to back up quickly while reaching for my 1911 in a shoulder holster or a pocket carried .357 snub. Haven't found one yet that's right for a draw from the SmartCarry, but maybe we'll get to something.
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Old 06-22-2015, 01:02 PM   #71
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Re: Primary Techniques for Self Defense

Quote:
David Skaggs wrote: View Post
Which Aikido technique would be your first choice to know for use in a self defense situation?

Which Aikido technique would be your second choice to know for use in a self defense situation?

David
Dear Dave,
A boot in the crown jewels followed up by the famous Glasgow kiss ie a head butt to the proboscis.Finishes off most unwelcome chaps. Cheers, Joe.
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Old 06-22-2015, 04:26 PM   #72
rugwithlegs
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Re: Primary Techniques for Self Defense

I used to work with psychiatric patients. Kotegaeshi was okay for people I was legally caring for, or versions of Iriminage that did not involve the arm across the neck. My go to was Sankyo with my shoulder on top of Uke's - good for pinning on the floor, a wall, or as a come along, worked well as a disarm.

Outside of work, I have a huge respect for Shodokan's atemi waza, or the first five techniques of Junana. The first four in particular I have heard all called variations on Shomenuchi - if you're one of them, there's one technique in four separate, very broad categories with many, many variations on a theme. Shomenuchi really is the basis of so much of Ikkyo and the opening move to more Aikido techniques than any other one movement. I think it also compares to the Ki Society unbendable arm exercise and Yoshinkan's Hiriki no Yosei Ichi.

Time constraints - I get that a friend of mine joined the FBI and had six months of firearms, law enforcement, investigation methodology as well as hand to hand. Six months is not that long, and not when it's not an exclusive focus!

I have trained for 25 years; I have enjoyed the past 25 years, but crazy to think everyone has 25 years to prepare for the police force or military.

Where would I start to teach people is a very valid question for an instructor I think. Of course, it is a starting point of a very long road.
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Old 06-22-2015, 08:08 PM   #73
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Re: Primary Techniques for Self Defense

Quote:
Joe Bramblett wrote: View Post
A Glock cannot be used in any positive spiritual manner. That's like inviting Satan to a tent revival with hope to baptize him.
This is a six-year-old thread, fyi.
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Old 06-23-2015, 12:18 PM   #74
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Re: Primary Techniques for Self Defense

Quote:
Mary Malmros wrote: View Post
This is a six-year-old thread, fyi.
Glocks haven't changed significantly in the last six years.
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Old 06-23-2015, 05:35 PM   #75
rugwithlegs
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Re: Primary Techniques for Self Defense

Really, what to teach to someone when you have time constraints isn't a new nor a time sensitive question. Where to start a new student and how to teach is probably the basis of most of our historical schisms as well being a never ending troll debate. Our words are given a certain amount of immortality here. I just wish I could go back and read the conversations our predecessors had!
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