Welcome to AikiWeb Aikido Information
AikiWeb: The Source for Aikido Information
AikiWeb's principal purpose is to serve the Internet community as a repository and dissemination point for aikido information.

Sections
home
aikido articles
columns

Discussions
forums
aikiblogs

Databases
dojo search
seminars
image gallery
supplies
links directory

Reviews
book reviews
video reviews
dvd reviews
equip. reviews

News
submit
archive

Miscellaneous
newsletter
rss feeds
polls
about

Follow us on



Home > AikiWeb Aikido Forums
Go Back   AikiWeb Aikido Forums > General

Hello and thank you for visiting AikiWeb, the world's most active online Aikido community! This site is home to over 22,000 aikido practitioners from around the world and covers a wide range of aikido topics including techniques, philosophy, history, humor, beginner issues, the marketplace, and more.

If you wish to join in the discussions or use the other advanced features available, you will need to register first. Registration is absolutely free and takes only a few minutes to complete so sign up today!

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 06-08-2015, 09:06 AM   #1
jurasketu
Dojo: Roswell Budokan
Location: Roswell GA
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 106
United_States
Offline
Perception, Reaction Time and Training

I stumbled across an interesting science article [link below] about fencing that I think applies particularly well to martial arts in general and specifically to Aikido.

Visual perception in fencing: do the eye movements of fencers represent their information pickup?

The scientists were able to show that expert fencers (despite having no better reflexes than average) were "reading" the body of their opponent "expertly" and hence were better able to predict the target of an attack before it was launched. Apparently, this phenomenon exists across a number of sports (according to the article).

My takeaways are this:

(1) Practicing against properly executed attacks and movements [even if not full speed] is important to develop that expert perception.
(2) Predicting an attack before it comes isn't "mystical" - it is just a well-practiced eye. So it seems we should train with that in mind. [I think - maybe that would mess up the learning process... Hard to tell sometimes...]
(3) Practicing disguising movement and intent with posture, gaze and circular movement could affect expert perception.

Thoughts? Ridicule?

All paths lead to death. I strongly recommend taking one of the scenic routes.
AWA - Nidan - Started Aikido training in 2008
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-08-2015, 10:14 AM   #2
Cliff Judge
Location: Kawasaki, Kanagawa
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 1,267
Japan
Offline
Re: Perception, Reaction Time and Training

Quote:
Robin Johnson wrote: View Post
(1) Practicing against properly executed attacks and movements [even if not full speed] is important to develop that expert perception.
(2) Predicting an attack before it comes isn't "mystical" - it is just a well-practiced eye. So it seems we should train with that in mind. [I think - maybe that would mess up the learning process... Hard to tell sometimes...]
(3) Practicing disguising movement and intent with posture, gaze and circular movement could affect expert perception.
Yes, developing the skill of seeing what your opponent is doing is vital. But you have to *know* what you are seeing. Koryu gets this through lots and lots of kata training. Perception allows you a sort of comfort in the moment when your opponent has committed to an attack, but it hasn't yet reached you. But you need to be free to move in that moment, and move correctly.
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-08-2015, 11:33 AM   #3
Janet Rosen
  AikiWeb Forums Contributing Member
 
Janet Rosen's Avatar
Location: Left Coast
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 4,257
Offline
Re: Perception, Reaction Time and Training

No ridicule from here.
The key is the teaching has to include what to look for. The most I got from the first decade of training in aikido in three different dojo was to "move when you see uke's center move." It would have been nice if the curriculum included martial basic principles like weighting, etc....

Janet Rosen
http://www.zanshinart.com
"peace will enter when hate is gone"--percy mayfield
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-08-2015, 11:40 AM   #4
SeiserL
 
SeiserL's Avatar
Location: Florida Gulf coast
Join Date: Jun 2000
Posts: 3,803
United_States
Offline
Re: Perception, Reaction Time and Training

Yes agreed.
IMHO with proper instruction, the more you train your perception, orientation, and rsponse, the sooner and more subtle they become.

Lynn Seiser PhD
Yondan Aikido & FMA/JKD
We do not rise to the level of our expectations, but fall to the level of our training. Train well. KWATZ!
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-08-2015, 05:22 PM   #5
Robert Cowham
Dojo: East Sheen Aikido and Kashima No Tachi
Location: London, UK
Join Date: Jul 2000
Posts: 274
Offline
Re: Perception, Reaction Time and Training

Matthew Syed's book, Bounce is good on this subject. Here's a good article on the skills of a table tennis player renowned for his lighting quick reflexes, and yet who when tested was slower than most at raw reaction speed.

http://www.blueprinttennis.com/featured/limitless/

One thing mentioned in the book was that Desmond Douglas spent a long time when growing up practicing in a room with limited space - he couldn't move back away from the table - and so was forced to get better at reacting.
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-08-2015, 05:29 PM   #6
Riai Maori
 
Riai Maori's Avatar
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 141
New Zealand-Maori
Offline
Re: Perception, Reaction Time and Training

Are lefties better at sport?

The left hand fist.

http://science.howstuffworks.com/lif...ed-sports1.htm

Motto tsuyoku
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-08-2015, 10:43 PM   #7
jurasketu
Dojo: Roswell Budokan
Location: Roswell GA
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 106
United_States
Offline
Re: Perception, Reaction Time and Training

@Robert Cowham - That is a good article. Let us go train and pay attention and learn to anticipate by actually watching our partners...

All paths lead to death. I strongly recommend taking one of the scenic routes.
AWA - Nidan - Started Aikido training in 2008
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-09-2015, 12:09 AM   #8
Asou
 
Asou's Avatar
Dojo: Shaniz Dojo
Location: Jakarta
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 45
Indonesia
Offline
Re: Perception, Reaction Time and Training

is this a legit way of training that?

or anything else?
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-09-2015, 01:20 AM   #9
Rupert Atkinson
 
Rupert Atkinson's Avatar
Dojo: Wherever I am.
Location: New Zealand
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 892
United Kingdom
Offline
Re: Perception, Reaction Time and Training

If you want speed, timing, coordination, the desire to control and fool your opponent, and the ability to sum up a rapidly changing situation with instant decision: just take up table tennis.

  Reply With Quote
Old 06-09-2015, 10:09 AM   #10
Cliff Judge
Location: Kawasaki, Kanagawa
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 1,267
Japan
Offline
Re: Perception, Reaction Time and Training

Quote:
Konstantinus Darwin wrote: View Post
is this a legit way of training that?

or anything else?
It can be.

You don't get the "perception slowdown" until you truly have the kata burned in as second nature. Until then you are too busy trying to remember what your next move is (which is very good training for other things - simply gaining skill at learning kata is useful, and moving in sync is good for AIkido).

Rather than a synchronous cuisinart of movement, kata where there is a momentous pause before an attack is launched can be really great for perception training.
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-10-2015, 11:34 AM   #11
Anjisan
Dojo: Aikido of Madison
Location: Madison, Wisconsin
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 188
United_States
Offline
Talking Re: Perception, Reaction Time and Training

I remember my sensei telling me that Saotome sensei told him years ago: In or Out, Left or Right. From there the appropriate technique will show itself whether known consciously or not. I personally have found it to be sound advice. Coming from a kickboxing background before aikido, there are simply too many combinations that can come in too fast to try to deal with like we typically do with aikido strikes. Either draw them to you to expose angels and take away other weapons so to speak or enter to a safe place. The technique will be there especially if one is not thinking ahead of the response that one is going to do.

Train Hard,
Jason
  Reply With Quote

Please visit our sponsor:

AikiWeb Sponsored Links - Place your Aikido link here for only $10!



Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
A Consideration of Aikido Practice within the Context of Internal Training Ellis Amdur Columns 71 03-21-2013 09:15 PM
Paper House: Four Stories from the Dojo Paul Schweer Columns 3 07-04-2012 11:17 AM
So I started the solo exercises... Blake Holtzen Non-Aikido Martial Traditions 25 05-21-2010 10:26 AM
Using ki-skills for "aiki" in Daito-Ryu Mike Sigman Non-Aikido Martial Traditions 242 02-20-2009 08:54 PM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 10:26 AM.



vBulletin Copyright © 2000-2016 Jelsoft Enterprises Limited
----------
Copyright 1997-2016 AikiWeb and its Authors, All Rights Reserved.
----------
For questions and comments about this website:
Send E-mail
plainlaid-picaresque outchasing-protistan explicantia-altarage seaford-stellionate