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Old 04-01-2015, 07:44 AM   #26
jonreading
 
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Re: YouTube: TEDx: Aikido: an alternative education system for humanity?

Quote:
Mary Malmros wrote: View Post
"because karate does it"? In my experience in both styles, aikido is much, much more guilty of this than karate.
To clarify, my comment was directed at the observation that many martial arts have prioritized a philosophical hook, often based in peace, wellness and confidence, to soft sell what is generally considered an education about fighting. I think if you have seen an ad that says one (or more) of these hooks, you have seen a dojo that has elected to use this marketing tool. Aikido has a bad reputation for this particular sell, but Billy Blanks is just as guilty. Personally, I don't like the conflating ideology and training because at best you're teaching ideology and at worst you're lying.

Sometimes we throw out terrible cliches to steal ethos from others. "Polishing the mirror," can just as easily be said with a wink and a smile and mean a variety of others things. Why does it have any meaning in aikido? Because the man said it. Of the things I can appreciate about this video, one of them is the door to open dialog to challenge what we say and why we say it.

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Old 04-01-2015, 01:41 PM   #27
kewms
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Re: YouTube: TEDx: Aikido: an alternative education system for humanity?

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Is the world a better place because of this. In a small way yes.
Yep. -- Katherine
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Old 04-02-2015, 01:59 AM   #28
kewms
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Re: YouTube: TEDx: Aikido: an alternative education system for humanity?

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Mary Malmros wrote: View Post
Only if the goal is personal perfection. And whom does that serve other than yourself? You know the phrase, "The perfect is the enemy of the good"?
I would argue that a person who serves only themselves has a long way to go before achieving anything resembling perfection.

Katherine
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Old 04-02-2015, 06:50 AM   #29
MRoh
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Re: YouTube: TEDx: Aikido: an alternative education system for humanity?

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Toby Kasavan wrote: View Post
"The process that leads to peace in the sense how Ueshiba meant it, "
--what do you think O'Sensei meant? K. Ueshiba was clear that O'Sensei was not a pacifist in the western sense.
The process is spiritual development, not moral education.

Wheather Ueshiba was a pacifist in the sense of western peace movement, is not the question I think.
He changed his training method in a way that his art became an instrument for implementing universal principles and spiritual development, he even "stopped focusing on the physical techniques of aiki", like he sayed by himself.
Talking about peace in a moral sense and underpinning it with a performance of ikkyo or shiho nage doesn't seem to be what Ueshiba meant with takemusu aiki.
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Old 04-02-2015, 11:14 AM   #30
Cliff Judge
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Re: YouTube: TEDx: Aikido: an alternative education system for humanity?

Quote:
Jon Reading wrote: View Post
To clarify, my comment was directed at the observation that many martial arts have prioritized a philosophical hook, often based in peace, wellness and confidence, to soft sell what is generally considered an education about fighting. I think if you have seen an ad that says one (or more) of these hooks, you have seen a dojo that has elected to use this marketing tool. Aikido has a bad reputation for this particular sell, but Billy Blanks is just as guilty. Personally, I don't like the conflating ideology and training because at best you're teaching ideology and at worst you're lying..
Why do you say that Aikido has a bad rep for this "soft sell?"

I think what you are saying is that pugilistic systems such as karate sometimes sell themselves as fostering a peaceful mind, wellness, and confidence, by providing a good physical conditioning workout and training that "provides tools which can be used to harm or not harm" and that the "freedom of choice" of breaking someone's back vs knocking them out vs something less damaging is what gives one the peaceful mindset.

Hey that's a great idea. Obviously on the global scale, when one nation becomes clearly dominant in terms of military might they never use their might to force their will on the rest of the world in wars of adventure and the suchlike!

I don't think Aikido is really supposed to be that way. Obviously there are plenty of folks around here who think that Aikido was originally a devastating martial art meant to empower people to kill and damage others. I am not even sure if Daito ryu - or any koryu! - was exactly that.

What if Osensei ultimately wanted his art to not have anything to do with harming people at all? I know that sounds ridiculous - we are supposed to seriously train in a "martial art" that is meant to not be effective at harming another person - but the whole "kill them or maybe spare them" concept was certainly not an innovation.
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Old 04-02-2015, 12:53 PM   #31
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Re: YouTube: TEDx: Aikido: an alternative education system for humanity?

I think it's pretty clear that WW II was a deeply traumatic experience for O Sensei, the lesson of which might be "budo virtues won't save you if the other guy has nukes." (Especially if you're a resource-poor island nation facing resource-rich continental powers.) And therefore that relying on martial superiority alone is ultimately a losing strategy.

So what is aikido "for," then?

I don't pretend to have a definitive answer, but I think the idea of non-contention -- with an attacker, and with the world generally -- is worth pondering.

Katherine
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Old 04-02-2015, 03:35 PM   #32
nikyu62
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Re: YouTube: TEDx: Aikido: an alternative education system for humanity?

As stated above, WW2 was a watershed moment for O-Sensei. His main students have noted this. What aikido is "for" then…..to win the battle within oneself, to become one with the universe, to connect with others, to set an example, to deter aggression by extending ki, as shugyo and misogi…..just my thoughts.
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Old 04-03-2015, 08:35 AM   #33
jonreading
 
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Re: YouTube: TEDx: Aikido: an alternative education system for humanity?

Quote:
Cliff Judge wrote: View Post
Why do you say that Aikido has a bad rep for this "soft sell?"

I think what you are saying is that pugilistic systems such as karate sometimes sell themselves as fostering a peaceful mind, wellness, and confidence, by providing a good physical conditioning workout and training that "provides tools which can be used to harm or not harm" and that the "freedom of choice" of breaking someone's back vs knocking them out vs something less damaging is what gives one the peaceful mindset.

Hey that's a great idea. Obviously on the global scale, when one nation becomes clearly dominant in terms of military might they never use their might to force their will on the rest of the world in wars of adventure and the suchlike!

I don't think Aikido is really supposed to be that way. Obviously there are plenty of folks around here who think that Aikido was originally a devastating martial art meant to empower people to kill and damage others. I am not even sure if Daito ryu - or any koryu! - was exactly that.

What if Osensei ultimately wanted his art to not have anything to do with harming people at all? I know that sounds ridiculous - we are supposed to seriously train in a "martial art" that is meant to not be effective at harming another person - but the whole "kill them or maybe spare them" concept was certainly not an innovation.
I don't necessarily have a problem with soft-selling martial arts, but I think there needs to be something that has to been softened... My main problem is that there is a lot of aikido that doesn't have a sharp edge that can be softened.

Right now, I am of the mind that aikido was a place O Sensei created for people who were [too] dangerous to remain in their training. I think this was part of early dojo model and the training consisted not only of how to use you body in a way that restrained your body but also that you could learn how to protect your body from extreme distress. The fact was that these people did know how to do devastating things and I think that is the main correlation for those who believe aikido has damaging components.

I think it is also a serious consideration to first ask whether you can take a life before debating the morals whether you can give it back. I think most of us generally lack the first ability, making the discussion of the second ability mute. O Sensei did not speak from the perspective most of us hold and we should consider that when we debate whether we theoretically would kill the 220 lb. drunk wife-beater, or simply immobilize him with a crisp nikkyo.

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