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Old 01-25-2015, 10:38 PM   #26
dps
Join Date: Apr 2006
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Re: Hiroshi Ikeda Becomes "Independent Teacher"

So I read this as Saotome Sensei does not want Ikeda Sensei to be head of the ASU. Perhaps he has someone else in mind?

dps
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Old 02-24-2015, 06:13 PM   #27
sakumeikan
Dojo: Sakumeikan N.E. Aikkai .Newcastle upon Tyne.
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Re: Hiroshi Ikeda Becomes "Independent Teacher"

Quote:
Peter A Goldsbury wrote: View Post
Hello George,

I think there are at least two aspects to this generation change (which every Japanese haken shihan who has built up an organization has to cope with).

One concerns the structure of the organization viewed from the inside and the personal relationships (or lack of relationships) therein.

The other concerns the structure of the organization viewed from the outside and the relationship (or lack of relationship) with the Aikikai is a major factor here. Saotome Shihan had a personal relationship with Kisshomaru Ueshiba and the structures set in place when he returned to the Aikikai have remained. As I stated, the organization of the ASU is quite unique and perhaps Saotome Shihan was looking over his shoulder at what was happening in the USAF. Given Mr Ikeda's widespread following, I do not think it should be too difficult to maintain or establish a relationship with the Aikikai, should he choose to do so.

I know nearly all the haken shihan who have maintained a direct relationship with the Aikikai over the years and the only one who designated a successor was K Chiba in the UK. He designated Minoru Kanetsuka and the transition was by no means smooth, as Joe Curran and Philip Smith can attest.

The iemoto model relies for its efficacy partly on good genetics, in the form of a suitable heir, and partly on the willingness of those who are not in the designated family line to accept the system and their place within it. I have major reservations about the efficacy of this system if it is applied to organizations larger than small groups, where the practice of the art has a long tradition.

Most of the organizations affiliated to the Aikikai outside Japan do not work on this model and the changeover from a single haken shihan with no designated (and accepted) successor is likely to be a collegiate form of power sharing among the seniors.

Best wishes,
Dear Peter,
Kanetsuka's appointment as head of the Aikikai Great Britain aka B.A. F was as rough as a badgers backside[try a substitute word for backside here].While initially things were hunky dory the situation eventually got so bad senior high grades left en masse. I guess you would say people were voting with feet.Every time I think of this period under Kanetsuka I suffer nightmares.If it had not been the case that Mr Smith formed the U.K.A more than likely I would have quit aikido.So to state that Kanetsuka's reign was by no means smoooth is a understatement.Of course this is my own view of that period.No doubt some people might say that the Kanetsuka era is/was the best thing since sliced bread was invented.Cheers, Joe
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Old 02-25-2015, 09:46 AM   #28
Alex Megann
Dojo: Southampton Aikikai
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Re: Hiroshi Ikeda Becomes "Independent Teacher"

Quote:
Joe Curran wrote: View Post
Dear Peter,
Kanetsuka's appointment as head of the Aikikai Great Britain aka B.A. F was as rough as a badgers backside[try a substitute word for backside here].While initially things were hunky dory the situation eventually got so bad senior high grades left en masse. I guess you would say people were voting with feet.Every time I think of this period under Kanetsuka I suffer nightmares.If it had not been the case that Mr Smith formed the U.K.A more than likely I would have quit aikido.So to state that Kanetsuka's reign was by no means smoooth is a understatement.Of course this is my own view of that period.No doubt some people might say that the Kanetsuka era is/was the best thing since sliced bread was invented.Cheers, Joe
As you say, Joe, there are several stories about this period, and not all of them agree…

Alex
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Old 02-25-2015, 10:54 AM   #29
sakumeikan
Dojo: Sakumeikan N.E. Aikkai .Newcastle upon Tyne.
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Re: Hiroshi Ikeda Becomes "Independent Teacher"

Quote:
Alex Megann wrote: View Post
As you say, Joe, there are several stories about this period, and not all of them agree…

Alex
Dear Alex,
Yes you are correct.The fact that some people stayed with MR K meant he was appreciated by some.As I said Mr K was ok at the start of his A,G,B tenure of office as Tech Director.Sad to say I voted with my feet. It all so long ago but I still feel that this period was the start of the schisms in the aikido in the U.k. I am not saying all the blame for this is on the head ofMr K but as the top man he carried the can.If you are the Head Honcho and there are issues which result in people leaving ANY ship,the ultimate guy who takes the fall is the leader of the group.
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Old 02-26-2015, 05:54 AM   #30
philipsmith
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Re: Hiroshi Ikeda Becomes "Independent Teacher"

i agree that there are usually many sides to any situation.
One of the problems for any successor to the haken Shihan is that they were (and remain) extremely charismatic individuals whose personal following often exceeds that of their students to the Aikikai in general.
In my opinion they both collectively and individually did not give enough consideration to the future health of their respective associations. The old model of a designated successor is, in my experience, not viable outside of Japan; but rather each territory has to adapt and adopt their own solution.
The Hombu and by extension Doshu then become a central reference point for technical instruction and accreditation rather than a directing, legislative body
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Old 02-26-2015, 10:26 AM   #31
sakumeikan
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Re: Hiroshi Ikeda Becomes "Independent Teacher"

Quote:
Philip Smith wrote: View Post
i agree that there are usually many sides to any situation.
One of the problems for any successor to the haken Shihan is that they were (and remain) extremely charismatic individuals whose personal following often exceeds that of their students to the Aikikai in general.
In my opinion they both collectively and individually did not give enough consideration to the future health of their respective associations. The old model of a designated successor is, in my experience, not viable outside of Japan; but rather each territory has to adapt and adopt their own solution.
The Hombu and by extension Doshu then become a central reference point for technical instruction and accreditation rather than a directing, legislative body
Dear Philip.
In my experience over the years I have came to the conclusion that there is very little consideration given to the overall welfare of aikido itself.Instead of having a rich vein of talent and teachers some with decades of experience which could be used as a tool for future aikidoka,, The trend in theUK and other areas has been the continued break up of groups Think what the collective experience and the knowledge amassed in this group if it were to be shared with the whole aikido community.Maybe I am a jaded , cynical idealist but I personally believe that you can achieve more as a large group than you can in smaller groups.Do you remember the early days in the A.G. B? Maybe I am seeing the past through rose tinted glasses but I consider overall this was for me the best period .Pity the then Tech.Director left for Japan , it was not long after when students broke away.The trend is still the same.Maybe the formation of the J.A.C might help somewhat?Hope you and the team are well.Say hi to them for me, Joe.
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Old 02-28-2015, 08:58 AM   #32
philipsmith
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Re: Hiroshi Ikeda Becomes "Independent Teacher"

Hi Joe, I agree in lots of ways with what you've said.
My own feeling is that groups have yet to find a way to accommodate a variety of teachers (although Hombu seems to mange it somehow) who each have a strong following.

Hopefully the JAC will address this.
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Old 02-28-2015, 11:01 AM   #33
kewms
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Re: Hiroshi Ikeda Becomes "Independent Teacher"

Doing aikido, teaching aikido, and managing an organization (whether an individual dojo or a national organization) are different skills. Having all of them present in a single individual is rare, yet that is exactly what the model of a single charismatic Shihan assumes.

Katherine
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Old 02-28-2015, 11:37 AM   #34
sakumeikan
Dojo: Sakumeikan N.E. Aikkai .Newcastle upon Tyne.
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Re: Hiroshi Ikeda Becomes "Independent Teacher"

Quote:
Philip Smith wrote: View Post
Hi Joe, I agree in lots of ways with what you've said.
My own feeling is that groups have yet to find a way to accommodate a variety of teachers (although Hombu seems to mange it somehow) who each have a strong following.

Hopefully the JAC will address this.
Dear Philip,
As you know most of the Aikikai recognised groups had a common source.We were all training together for years under a certain shihan. The groups years later have now got a good number of sensei who have each got a their own personal style/ flavour of aikido.This is as it should be .The problem /issues that have arose over decades is partly due to the fact that we seem to be incapable of focusing on the positive aspect of having a wide spectrum of teachers and the focus on this fact has been imo pretty negative.I accept that certain teachers have a strong following but does that mean the student should not be exposed to other teachers?We as a whole do not fully appreciate the rich vein of talented sensei each with their own expression of aikido.This was not the case when we were exposed to Yamaguchi/Saito/Tamura/ Shibata/ Fujimoto/Sekiya,Asai ,Yamada/ Kanai for example?Each of these teachers had /have their own style.Why can we not have greater integration /share knowledge not for any personal gain or for any group but for the welfare of aikido itself? This issue needs to be tackled now in order that the next generation can benefit from the struggles and sacrifices made by many years ago. Cheers, Joe.
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