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Old 02-18-2015, 04:00 AM   #26
MRoh
Location: Düsseldorf
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Re: How to practice Atemi

Quote:
Lynn Seiser wrote: View Post
Its interesting that my aikido technique is better when I am within the non-aikido striking range (maai)and know where all the strikes would be (intent).
What do you mean with "non-aikido striking range (maai)?
There are different ranges for every fighting style.
Maai is the optimal distance for a fighter, depending on his style.

Quote:
David Skaggs wrote: View Post
Can you post a link to a video that shows an "aikido-style striking".

dps
In videos of Shioda Gozo you can see a lot.
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Old 02-18-2015, 07:54 AM   #27
SeiserL
 
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Re: How to practice Atemi

Quote:
Markus Rohde wrote: View Post
What do you mean with "non-aikido striking range (maai)?
There are different ranges for every fighting style. Maai is the optimal distance for a fighter, depending on his style.
Just my experience, but many aikido people seem to find safety being outside the range/distance of influence (the other person cannot hit/influence them - but they cannot either). When I first came into aikido, I seldom had to move with other's atemi because they were not within effective striking range.
I find more safety in the range of mutual inclusion, I only tend enter and take center first (intent, initiation, and timing).
That's all ...

Lynn Seiser PhD
Yondan Aikido & FMA/JKD
We do not rise to the level of our expectations, but fall to the level of our training. Train well. KWATZ!
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Old 02-18-2015, 10:57 AM   #28
dps
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Re: How to practice Atemi

Quote:
Markus Rohde wrote: View Post
In videos of Shioda Gozo you can see a lot.
Could you be more specific and provide a link and explanation of how he is using "aikido-style striking"?

dps
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Old 02-18-2015, 09:36 PM   #29
Dan Richards
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Re: How to practice Atemi

I actually felt I could offer something here. From my understanding - having trained in a few styles of aikido, and teaching at a Nishio Aikido-based dojo - the study of the application of atemi is fundamental for learning and understanding body positioning.

Atemi does not have to be used at all during a technique. But... if we don't know where it's applied, then we have no realistic reference for body positioning and angle relative to uke.

If uke attacks, and can strike, but nage can't strike; then nage's not in a very good position to do anything else. In other words; nage is dead.

Atemi acts as a compass, ruler, slide rule, etc. Just as the sword acts as a tool for refining movements - especially concerning the angle of the hands at any given moment in the technique.

A sword in hand is not at all necessary in order to apply effective aikido technique. But a sword is vital for learning how to apply effective aikido techniques. Flowing techniques can absolutely be executed effectively with no atemi applied or any where in sight, but a knowledge of atemi is necessary in order for the flowing techniques to be martially effective.

Someone not training atemi in aikido will not understand the angles and distances of nage and uke. Learning atemi application is like learning the ABCs on the long road of learning how to "write" in aikido. O-Sensei's movements in his later life were still absolutely martially effective, even though it may look to many as if he's just waving his hands in the air. And that type of more flowing aikido could be likened to someone writing their signature. But in order to learn to write a flowing signature, we all had to start out when we were kids and learn how to make letters, then spell words, then write sentences...

My signature shows little remaining evidence of my sitting in grade school learning how to make block letters, and then later, cursive letters. But it's all there.

Atemi is like the scaffolding erected to construct a building: it will serve as a load-bearer, and a frame for proper angles and measurements. And, of course, after the building is constructed the scaffolding is not necessary for the building to stand.

And the role of uke is equally as important in the study of budo as the role of nage. If nage is not applying atemi, uke will not learn about the strike possibilities at any given moment within the technique. As an example, if uke is put in the position to have kaiten nage applied, among other things, they need to know that nage is in the position to be able to plow a knee right into uke's face. An uke trained in atemi will naturally put their hand up to their own face in the direction of nage's inside knee.

Any aikidoka trained in atemi application can easliy spot someone else in training who doesn't have the knowledge of atemi. They're easy to spot because they're often in the position of being wide open to incoming force/s from uke. And I see this even in some high-level aikido practioners. They're open. Which equals: they're dead. I've seen many people training aikido focus so much on the controlling technique being practiced - kote gaeshi, shiho nage, nikkyo, etc - that comes near the end of the technique; that they blindly dance through the initial opening movements not seeing that they're completely open to attack. And those who do not train atemi will also be blind to attack possibilities from uke even during the controlling techniques.

In my training with Nishio sensei, he seemed to have little concern for which model of the controlling technique people chose. To him they were even more of a "massage" for uke. He always stressed being in proper position from the word go to strike uke (in many cases multiple times) and to not allow uke to be in a position to strike. And to continue that relationship throughout all the movements.

Atemi is literally the "inside scoop" to aikido as budo. There is an old masonic creed: measure twice, cut once. And one of the symbols of masonry is the square and the compass.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Square_and_Compasses

Atemi and the sword are the squares within aikido. Atemi, in unarmed applications, is the sword of aikido.

My 2¢.
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Old 02-19-2015, 06:23 AM   #30
SeiserL
 
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Re: How to practice Atemi

Quote:
Dan Richards wrote: View Post
Atemi and the sword are the squares within aikido. Atemi, in unarmed applications, is the sword of aikido.
Well said ...
Compliments and appreciation ...

Lynn Seiser PhD
Yondan Aikido & FMA/JKD
We do not rise to the level of our expectations, but fall to the level of our training. Train well. KWATZ!
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Old 02-19-2015, 06:41 AM   #31
Carsten Möllering
 
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Re: How to practice Atemi

Quote:
Lynn Seiser wrote: View Post
... many aikido people seem to find safety being outside the range/distance of influence (the other person cannot hit/influence them - but they cannot either).
In wich can they use aikidō waza in such a distance? In wich way do they create contact at such a distance?
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Old 02-19-2015, 10:06 AM   #32
SeiserL
 
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Re: How to practice Atemi

Quote:
Carsten Möllering wrote: View Post
In wich can they use aikidō waza in such a distance? In wich way do they create contact at such a distance?
In FMA, we would call it an outside distance, meaning I can hit their hands but not their body while they are aiming for my body.
Since many aikido waza work off the wrist/hand, I tend to see many students making contact with the wrist/hand but not connected to/through the body because they are out of effective range or are not chaining the alignment/structure.
But I have often been kidded that "everything is irimi/atemi" to me and my aikido "stinks of kali/escrima" ... LOL

Lynn Seiser PhD
Yondan Aikido & FMA/JKD
We do not rise to the level of our expectations, but fall to the level of our training. Train well. KWATZ!
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