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Old 11-12-2014, 12:52 PM   #51
Erick Mead
 
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Dojo: Big Green Drum (W. Florida Aikikai)
Location: West Florida
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 2,568
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Re: YouTube: Kotegaeshi - Basic and Variations

Quote:
Mihaly Dobroka wrote: View Post
What are your thoughts on this video?
Mihaly
Well..... ?

- His upper body structure keeps collapsing and then having to re-extend (i.e. -- he is not internally connected).
- He lets his limbs fall behind the turn of body (i.e. - again, his action is not whole-body, not unified), but without creating the appropriate power in that way (i.e. -- even if he were trying to create a tension connection (which is fine, as with the linked Endo example), he isn't doing that).
- He CANNOT be keeping good connection to uke and appears to be losing kuzushi (if he ever had it) in the turns as well, and having to reestablish it (if he ever does)
- His lower body is WAAAY too broad in support, the unduly wide stance precludes structrual change in larger angular rotation without shifting support, forcing movement to create power that is unnecessary in a more natural stance, where structural change (tai no henko principle) creates power around a dynamically stable base (see Saito video below).
- He is substituting movement for connection to his opponent's structure -- even in suwari-waza
- I don't think I saw one properly structured attack

This does not favorably compare to the excellent example linked showing Endo Seishiro shihan, whose stance is ordinary, connection natural, and movement minimal and no more than necessary. Saito, of course, is to similar effect.

While Tissier's performance might seem nominally similar to the OP video -- it isn't. He engages (1:28-1:32) uke's arm in a flexed limb posture but then in the turn is constantly extending his arm with uke attached leading her into a progressive kuzushi outward from her base of support. Tissier's action is mechanically continuous and like a swimming stroke or a backhanded do cut. This is not the case with the OP video, whose arms are doing a lot of reciprocating (push-pulling) -- destroying the angular moment developed by the tai no henko of a connected body that will compromise uke's structure in connection (like Saito here ).

Basically, the OP video has him just (elegantly) dragging and yanking uke around without a real kuzushi -- the pretty ukemi notwithstanding. The OP video has no similar cutting action involved in gaining and magnifying kuzushi as seen in Tissier, and I struggle to identify any example of involuntary kuzushi in the OP video at all. Tissier is not really forcing kuzushi very hard either, but that does not seem to be the point he is dwelling on in his lesson, so I hardly fault it. It is plain he can and does when he wishes to.

The OP video -- not so much. It has a lot of what I call neutral movements in contact -- like holding hands and swinging arms together. It doesn't really DO anything because it is in a single plane of action.

Three planes of simultaneous rotation (or stress, equivalently) form a spiral that is progressive, and irreversible in any one plane of action without breaking stuff. Kuzushi happens. Tissier's action forms these three planes of irreversible action (around-out-dropping) for kuzushi -- and the same thing reversed (up-in-across) for the throw. The OP video keeps bending and extending his arms to follow the single and neutral plane of action (like arm-swinging), having little effect on uke, until he loads up for the throw.

Cordially,

Erick Mead
一隻狗可久里馬房但他也不是馬的.
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Old 11-13-2014, 11:15 AM   #52
Hilary
Dojo: Torrey Pines Aiki Kai
Location: San Diego
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 83
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Re: YouTube: Kotegaeshi - Basic and Variations

One of the variations we train.
http://www.tpaikikai.org/media/aroun...te-gaeshi.html
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Old 11-13-2014, 03:40 PM   #53
Rupert Atkinson
 
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Re: YouTube: Kotegaeshi - Basic and Variations

OK - here are some old vids of mine:
Gykaku-hanmi katate-dori kote-gaeshi: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f7dzziu7XXo
Yokomen-uchi kote-gaeshi: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ymaal9Jwvi8

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Old 11-13-2014, 08:50 PM   #54
cagivaplanet
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 5
Singapore
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Re: YouTube: Kotegaeshi - Basic and Variations

Quote:
Erick Mead wrote: View Post
Well..... ?

- His upper body structure keeps collapsing and then having to re-extend (i.e. -- he is not internally connected).
- He lets his limbs fall behind the turn of body (i.e. - again, his action is not whole-body, not unified), but without creating the appropriate power in that way (i.e. -- even if he were trying to create a tension connection (which is fine, as with the linked Endo example), he isn't doing that).
- He CANNOT be keeping good connection to uke and appears to be losing kuzushi (if he ever had it) in the turns as well, and having to reestablish it (if he ever does)
- His lower body is WAAAY too broad in support, the unduly wide stance precludes structrual change in larger angular rotation without shifting support, forcing movement to create power that is unnecessary in a more natural stance, where structural change (tai no henko principle) creates power around a dynamically stable base (see Saito video below).
- He is substituting movement for connection to his opponent's structure -- even in suwari-waza
- I don't think I saw one properly structured attack

This does not favorably compare to the excellent example linked showing Endo Seishiro shihan, whose stance is ordinary, connection natural, and movement minimal and no more than necessary. Saito, of course, is to similar effect.

While Tissier's performance might seem nominally similar to the OP video -- it isn't. He engages (1:28-1:32) uke's arm in a flexed limb posture but then in the turn is constantly extending his arm with uke attached leading her into a progressive kuzushi outward from her base of support. Tissier's action is mechanically continuous and like a swimming stroke or a backhanded do cut. This is not the case with the OP video, whose arms are doing a lot of reciprocating (push-pulling) -- destroying the angular moment developed by the tai no henko of a connected body that will compromise uke's structure in connection (like Saito here ).

Basically, the OP video has him just (elegantly) dragging and yanking uke around without a real kuzushi -- the pretty ukemi notwithstanding. The OP video has no similar cutting action involved in gaining and magnifying kuzushi as seen in Tissier, and I struggle to identify any example of involuntary kuzushi in the OP video at all. Tissier is not really forcing kuzushi very hard either, but that does not seem to be the point he is dwelling on in his lesson, so I hardly fault it. It is plain he can and does when he wishes to.

The OP video -- not so much. It has a lot of what I call neutral movements in contact -- like holding hands and swinging arms together. It doesn't really DO anything because it is in a single plane of action.

Three planes of simultaneous rotation (or stress, equivalently) form a spiral that is progressive, and irreversible in any one plane of action without breaking stuff. Kuzushi happens. Tissier's action forms these three planes of irreversible action (around-out-dropping) for kuzushi -- and the same thing reversed (up-in-across) for the throw. The OP video keeps bending and extending his arms to follow the single and neutral plane of action (like arm-swinging), having little effect on uke, until he loads up for the throw.
Thank you for the wonderful and precise analysis.
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