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Old 10-17-2014, 08:34 AM   #1
TenkanThomas
Dojo: Newport Aikido, Kai Shin Kai
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Favourite Technique?

Please share your favourite technique with me.

Mine is probably irimi nage. Look forward to hearing about yours
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Old 10-17-2014, 09:57 AM   #2
phitruong
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Re: Favourite Technique?

my favorite technique is falling asleep, ... i meant meditation, on the mat while sitting in seiza.

"budo is putting on cold, wet, sweat stained gi with a smile and a snarl" - your truly
http://charlotteaikikai.org
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Old 10-17-2014, 10:01 AM   #3
Dan Richards
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Re: Favourite Technique?

Interesting that you say irimi nage, Thomas. Because I was going to say irimi.

Irimi is the first movement and first technique of every other movement and every technique in Aikido. If irimi is executed correctly, every other movement thereafter can flow effortlessly. If irimi is not executed correctly, no matter what we do, we'll be compensating — through muscling, collusion, over or under extending, etc. — and nothing we do would qualify as Aikido.

Irimi nage, in its most abbreviated form, is a single entering irimi movement, cutting through and felling uke. Done.

Quote:
Aikido decides life and death in a single strike - M Ueshiba
Someone who does a good example of this is Steven Segal. Even the moves in the movies where he just steps in and punches uke and knocks them out. That's irimi nage. You'll also notice in his randori demonstrations he usually applies irimi nage exclusively. Why not kotegaeshi, shihonage, or nikkyo? Because those are finishing submission techniques used in protection work to keep someone from hurting themselves and others.

Multiple attackers – with lethal intent – require a different strategy. In Segal's randori demonstration, ukes go down with a single movement, and use their ukemi to return and attack him again.

In real application of irimi nage, no one is getting back up again. Segal's randori demonstrations are symbolic of Ueshiba's definition of Aikido — life and death in a single strike.

Ineffective application of irimi is something that Shoji Nishio would often mention in what he saw as a deterioration in the training and practices of many aikidoka. Nishio's prime focus was always in that first movement. Because if we don't nail that, we're deluding ourselves into thinking that anything that comes after that is going to be effective.

So, I might have to say I'm with you on irimi nage, Chris. Because if we can't apply effective irimi, nothing else matters, and it ceases being Aikido.

Last edited by Dan Richards : 10-17-2014 at 10:14 AM.
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Old 10-18-2014, 01:28 AM   #4
dps
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Re: Favourite Technique?

More important than technique, Kuzushi.

dps
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Old 10-18-2014, 07:13 AM   #5
MRoh
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Re: Favourite Technique?

Quote:
Dan Richards wrote: View Post
Why not kotegaeshi, shihonage, or nikkyo? Because those are finishing submission techniques used in protection work to keep someone from hurting themselves and others.
I guess you don't know the "real" application of shiho-nage?
In keiko you have to give uke a chance to protect himself by letting him take ukemi, but in reality there is no ukemi possible, no protection, just broken bones.
For example the way Tada Sensei executed shiho-nage when he was younger, was very dangerous for uke, he had to jump high into a forward ukemi in the right moment, otherwise his shoulder ore ellbow was broken.

Quote:
Dan Richards wrote: View Post
Segal's randori demonstrations are symbolic of Ueshiba's definition of Aikido — life and death in a single strike.
You can't compare what seagal does with Ueshibas irimi entering movement.
It's just a knocking-down-movement that every MMA guy could do, and in cinema its just...oh well.

In the aikido expo demontration 1993 he does not show a single irimi-nage in his randori demonstration, he moves slow and sluggish.
I don't think he is a good example, but as regards the importance of irimi you are right.
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Old 10-18-2014, 03:14 PM   #6
sakumeikan
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Re: Favourite Technique?

Quote:
Markus Rohde wrote: View Post
I guess you don't know the "real" application of shiho-nage?
In keiko you have to give uke a chance to protect himself by letting him take ukemi, but in reality there is no ukemi possible, no protection, just broken bones.
For example the way Tada Sensei executed shiho-nage when he was younger, was very dangerous for uke, he had to jump high into a forward ukemi in the right moment, otherwise his shoulder ore ellbow was broken.

You can't compare what seagal does with Ueshibas irimi entering movement.
It's just a knocking-down-movement that every MMA guy could do, and in cinema its just...oh well.

In the aikido expo demontration 1993 he does not show a single irimi-nage in his randori demonstration, he moves slow and sluggish.
I don't think he is a good example, but as regards the importance of irimi you are right.
Dear Markus,
Must we refer to Mr Seagal in this debate?I know I am contradicting my own statement here.The 1993 demo is pretty grim. Less said the better .Cheers, Joe.
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Old 10-18-2014, 07:18 PM   #7
lbb
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Re: Favourite Technique?

Changes all the time. Today it's ikkyo osae, Monday it'll be something else.
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Old 10-19-2014, 06:57 AM   #8
lifestylemanoz
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Re: Favourite Technique?

I seem to do Hachi Mawashi a lot in randori

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Old 10-20-2014, 10:17 PM   #9
Asou
 
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Re: Favourite Technique?

for immobilization, I like nikkyo. THE PAIN!! ARRR!!

for projection, I like iriminage (haha why are you moving around m- OH SHIII-!!)
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Old 10-22-2014, 05:17 PM   #10
miso
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Re: Favourite Technique?

Nikkyo. It's a testometer of how I am feeling when I do it, how I feel about the other person.
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Old 10-22-2014, 05:47 PM   #11
Cliff Judge
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Re: Favourite Technique?

Ikkyo. I think it's the most important one.
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Old 10-24-2014, 12:57 AM   #12
Dan Richards
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Re: Favourite Technique?

Quote:
Cliff Judge wrote: View Post
Ikkyo. I think it's the most important one.
You probably have a good point, Cliff. It seems so easy to overlook. The entire art -- and the ability to discover it -- is contained in ikkyo.

People are always looking for "more advanced."

Ikkyo's not called "first technique" for nothing.
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Old 10-24-2014, 03:51 AM   #13
reza.n
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Re: Favourite Technique?

I like Sankyo
the way it hurts and the way it gives me the overall control on my opponent and also the various forms to turn it into a Sankyo-nage.
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Old 10-24-2014, 04:42 AM   #14
PeterR
 
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Re: Favourite Technique?

Quote:
Dan Richards wrote: View Post
You probably have a good point, Cliff. It seems so easy to overlook. The entire art -- and the ability to discover it -- is contained in ikkyo.

People are always looking for "more advanced."

Ikkyo's not called "first technique" for nothing.
I am convinced that it was first in the series by chance rather than its profound nature - but hey that's just me.

I've always liked the timing and speed of ushiro-ate (see my gif) and all its variations.

Peter Rehse Shodokan Aikido
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Old 10-24-2014, 05:26 AM   #15
Carsten Möllering
 
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Re: Favourite Technique?

Quote:
Peter Rehse wrote: View Post
I am convinced that it was first in the series by chance rather than its profound nature - but hey that's just me.
As far as I know ippon dori ("ikkyo") aswell as gyuaku ude dori ("nikyo") are both part of the first kajo in Daito ryu?
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Old 10-24-2014, 09:14 AM   #16
MRoh
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Re: Favourite Technique?

Quote:
Carsten Möllering wrote: View Post
As far as I know ippon dori ("ikkyo") aswell as gyuaku ude dori ("nikyo") are both part of the first kajo in Daito ryu?
No. gyaku ude dori is not what we call nikyo today, that is kote tsume, shito tsume and other techniques. They belong to nikajo.

Ikajo is about breaking balance in the moment of attack, like in ippon-dori. Nikajo is about wrist-locks.
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Old 10-24-2014, 09:23 AM   #17
phitruong
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Re: Favourite Technique?

Quote:
Markus Rohde wrote: View Post
Ikajo is about breaking balance in the moment of attack, like in ippon-dori. Nikajo is about wrist-locks.
I thought all aikido techniques are about breaking balance in the moment of attack, then everything else after that. if uke's balance isn't broken, wouldn't uke has the chance to smack you 20 ways to Sunday (maybe to next Tuesday or possible Wednesday too, but not on Saturday because that's party day) while you try to apply the various locks?

"budo is putting on cold, wet, sweat stained gi with a smile and a snarl" - your truly
http://charlotteaikikai.org
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Old 10-24-2014, 09:50 AM   #18
MRoh
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Re: Favourite Technique?

Quote:
Phi Truong wrote: View Post
I thought all aikido techniques are about breaking balance in the moment of attack, then everything else after that.
I refer to the hiden mokuroku syllabus of daito-ryu jujutsu, not to aikido.

In nikajo control of the attacker will be induced by applying a wrist-lock, in sankajo a cross-block will be executed to stop the attack. Ikajo is about braking balance in the moment of attack, just by entering, like in ippon dori (see above). Thats just the explanation for classification of techniques given by katsuyuki kondo.

Last edited by MRoh : 10-24-2014 at 09:53 AM.
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Old 10-24-2014, 10:04 AM   #19
lbb
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Re: Favourite Technique?

From the thread title: "Favourite Technique?" Not best technique, first technique or most important technique. "Favo(u)rite" is nothing to argue about.
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Old 10-24-2014, 07:54 PM   #20
Janet Rosen
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Re: Favourite Technique?

If "favorite" implies what is most in my body, what I tend to revert to when the opening is there, and in fact what I had waking dreams of during the two year period of being off the mat with knee injury/rehab....that is undoubtedly sayunage or in some nomenclatures sokumen iriminage. Sankyo tends to be where my body goes if optimal opening for sayu isn't there.

Janet Rosen
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Old 10-26-2014, 05:37 PM   #21
JP3
 
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Re: Favourite Technique?

Favorite technique.... that one where uke swings and I put a hand on him/her and they fall down, go boom and I don't really know what the heck I just did.... Best...Feeling...Ever!

I find it interesting that the kanji character for kuzushi illustrates a mountain falling on a house.
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Old 10-28-2014, 07:51 AM   #22
TenkanThomas
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Re: Favourite Technique?

Thank you for all of the replies; it's made interesting reading. I think my favourite has now changed as I have pondered more and more; Ikkyo. It's a beautiful thing.
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Old 10-28-2014, 09:09 AM   #23
Greg Jennings
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Re: Favourite Technique?

If 1v1 standing, my favorite is to get a clinch, transition to head and arm, break balance, then a kind of omote head and arm throw into kesa gatame.

Omote in that the inside leg slides through and past rather than pivoting and putting your hips into nage. In this omote form, the action goes angularly to uke's rear "third leg" (as modified by the twisting head and arm kuzushi) rather than up and over nage's hips to uke's front "third leg".

Yah, yah. It's not normal aikido. I thought that it would add some spice without being unapproachable to the average reader a'la the daito ryu techniques.

Last edited by Greg Jennings : 10-28-2014 at 09:15 AM.

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