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Old 10-16-2014, 09:29 PM   #26
Mihaly Dobroka
Location: Hirosaki
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Re: Youtube: Kakari Geiko with Empty Handed and Weapons Techniques

The sword twirl comes from these demonstrations of Sakanashi Leo sensei:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IjDLMfHmfjA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dd_E13k1KWk

This twirling movement while returning the sword to its scabbard is often used in the Japanese theaters (maybe in Kabuki).
Here is an other version of it:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MxNqnawN2bo

The fighting scenes of Japanese theater or Samurai movies is called ’Tate’. You can search for ’殺陣’ or ’Tate action’ to find more videos on YouTube.
I think it is possible to use these kind of techniques to make a demonstration more interesting and action full.

What do you think about it?
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Old 10-16-2014, 09:34 PM   #27
odudog
Dojo: Dale City Aikikai
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Re: Youtube: Kakari Geiko with Empty Handed and Weapons Techniques

Kakari geiko means hard practice. You do the same technique over and over against multiple people. You get tired while your partners stay fresh because they are taking turns.
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Old 10-16-2014, 09:43 PM   #28
Mihaly Dobroka
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Re: Youtube: Kakari Geiko with Empty Handed and Weapons Techniques

This demonstration was the final of the first half of the 51th Hirosaki University Aikido Demonstration.
The first half is the demonstration of the student who are now actually training in the University Dojo so the first year student demonstrated basic techniques and Suburi, the 2nd and 3rd year students demonstrated Kumi Tachi, Kumi Jo, Ken tai Jo, weapon taking techniques, Suwari waza, Hanmi Handachi waza, Jiyu waza and finaly Kakari Geki (Multiple Atackers).
The secon half was the demonstration of the sempais and the Shihan of our University Aikido Club.

Hanmi Handachi demonstration:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lBVN...MWgkqAobsoXRkQ

OB Demonstration by Kanaya Sempai: (In some cases Sempai is called OB in Japanese - Old Boys)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HhwM...MWgkqAobsoXRkQ
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Old 10-16-2014, 09:46 PM   #29
odudog
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Re: Youtube: Kakari Geiko with Empty Handed and Weapons Techniques

They guy in the videos listed above is holding the bokken in his left hand and putting it away in the scabbard on his right side. Both are major faux paux in Japanese martial arts.
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Old 10-16-2014, 10:21 PM   #30
Rupert Atkinson
 
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Re: Youtube: Kakari Geiko with Empty Handed and Weapons Techniques

Quote:
Mike Braxton wrote: View Post
Kakari geiko means hard practice. You do the same technique over and over against multiple people. You get tired while your partners stay fresh because they are taking turns.
Kagari-geiko refers to light give-and-take practice in Judo and Tomiki Aikido. Randori is hard practice - fighting - in Judo and Tomiki Aikido. You can't really steal the terms and alter their meaning. In Aikikai, it is all Kagari-geiko style. There is no randori - and even if you call it randori, it is not randori.

Last edited by Rupert Atkinson : 10-16-2014 at 10:23 PM.

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Old 10-16-2014, 10:34 PM   #31
Keith Larman
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Re: Youtube: Kakari Geiko with Empty Handed and Weapons Techniques

Quote:
Mihaly Dobroka wrote: View Post
The sword twirl comes from these demonstrations of Sakanashi Leo sensei:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IjDLMfHmfjA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dd_E13k1KWk

This twirling movement while returning the sword to its scabbard is often used in the Japanese theaters (maybe in Kabuki).
Here is an other version of it:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MxNqnawN2bo

The fighting scenes of Japanese theater or Samurai movies is called 'Tate'. You can search for '殺陣' or 'Tate action' to find more videos on YouTube.
I think it is possible to use these kind of techniques to make a demonstration more interesting and action full.

What do you think about it?
Honestly? I don't consider a sword a prop. Not in this context. There are any number of things that would make a koryu sword person cringe in these videos. But if it's being done to be more like Kabuki, movies, make believe, or backyard sword swinging excitement, well, I have nothing to say other than it's not what I'd be interested in.

To me seeing some of these things done to "embellish" on sword arts reminds me more of power rangers than martial arts. But if that's what students like, more power to them. Just not what I'd be interested in doing. And I really don't see how that relates to martial arts...

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Old 10-17-2014, 06:31 PM   #32
odudog
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Re: Youtube: Kakari Geiko with Empty Handed and Weapons Techniques

Quote:
Rupert Atkinson wrote: View Post
....You can't really steal the terms and alter their meaning. In Aikikai, it is all Kagari-geiko style. There is no randori - and even if you call it randori, it is not randori.
Not stealing anything or changing their meaning. Going off my wife's input along with her Japanese dictionaries. The kanji dictates everything.

Kakari geiko - hard practice (practice same technique against several partners)
Jiyuwaza - free style techniques (nage can do whatever while uke can only do one attack)
Randori - chaos takeaway (anything goes)
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Old 10-17-2014, 08:35 PM   #33
Rupert Atkinson
 
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Re: Youtube: Kakari Geiko with Empty Handed and Weapons Techniques

Quote:
Mike Braxton wrote: View Post
Not stealing anything or changing their meaning. Going off my wife's input along with her Japanese dictionaries. The kanji dictates everything.

Kakari geiko - hard practice (practice same technique against several partners)
Jiyuwaza - free style techniques (nage can do whatever while uke can only do one attack)
Randori - chaos takeaway (anything goes)
In order of intensity - as I learned it years ago

Kakari geiko - Light practice (free style, but light)
Hikitate-geiko - A bit harder (give and take = partners allow themselves to be thrown if it is half good - they resist if it is not so good - because they can)
Randori - Both parties refuse to be thrown - so a throw only appears if it works. Yes - chaos :-)

All the above are one on one
Ninin-dori = two partners
Sannin-dori = three partners
Tanin-dori = multiple partners

Different schools/Ryu apply different interpretations to many Japanese words / phrases.

PS Japanese-English dictionaries are not always accurate.

Last edited by Rupert Atkinson : 10-17-2014 at 08:41 PM.

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Old 10-18-2014, 05:34 PM   #34
odudog
Dojo: Dale City Aikikai
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Re: Youtube: Kakari Geiko with Empty Handed and Weapons Techniques

Quote:
Rupert Atkinson wrote: View Post
In order of intensity - as I learned it years ago

Kakari geiko - Light practice (free style, but light)
Hikitate-geiko - A bit harder (give and take = partners allow themselves to be thrown if it is half good - they resist if it is not so good - because they can)
Randori - Both parties refuse to be thrown - so a throw only appears if it works. Yes - chaos :-)

All the above are one on one
Ninin-dori = two partners
Sannin-dori = three partners
Tanin-dori = multiple partners

Different schools/Ryu apply different interpretations to many Japanese words / phrases.

PS Japanese-English dictionaries are not always accurate.
We practice ninin-dori, sannin-dori, etc.. as they do in Daito-ryu. As an example in ninin-dori, you let partners grab your arms at the same time, then you try to dispatch them. As far as the Japanese-English dictionaries, my wife has multiple ones that I use and I try to coaborate with two on-line dictionaries that I like. She helps me to fine tune the nuances that a dictionary can't convey.
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Old 10-18-2014, 07:02 PM   #35
Rupert Atkinson
 
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Re: Youtube: Kakari Geiko with Empty Handed and Weapons Techniques

Quote:
Mike Braxton wrote: View Post
As an example in ninin-dori, you let partners grab your arms at the same time, then you try to dispatch them.
In Aikido - that would be Futari-gake, not ninin-dori.

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Old 10-20-2014, 05:10 AM   #36
odudog
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Re: Youtube: Kakari Geiko with Empty Handed and Weapons Techniques

Quote:
Rupert Atkinson wrote: View Post
In Aikido - that would be Futari-gake, not ninin-dori.
It is the same kanji. You use a different (kunyomi) pronunciation while I use onyomi. Tomatoe vs. Tomato.
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Old 10-20-2014, 07:22 AM   #37
Peter Goldsbury
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Re: Youtube: Kakari Geiko with Empty Handed and Weapons Techniques

On Page 187 of the present Doshu's book 『規範合気道 応用編』((Kihan Aikido, Oyou hen), the fifth chapter has the title, 多人数掛け: Ta-nin-zu-gake. All the examples he gives are of two people holding the wrists, one on each side, which he calls 二人取り (futari-dori / ninin-dori). He gives four examples.

P A Goldsbury
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