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Old 09-25-2014, 04:59 PM   #76
Fred Little
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Re: Third Wave Aikido

I will simply point out that most networks are built around nodes of varying degrees of size, integrity, and degrees of inter-connectivity.

For instance: Higher education may be a network, but everybody in the game (with the exception of first-generation graduate students who haven't done their homework) knows which nodes are primary, which are secondary, and which are tertiary. Those who have advanced degrees from primary nodes may be able to teach at a primary node, but they're most likely to teach at a secondary node, where their senior peers comprise most of the instructional staff. Those who have advanced degrees from secondary nodes are extremely unlikely to ever teach at a primary node and they'll be lucky if they get a chance at a secondary node. Those who have advanced degrees from a tertiary node probably have a union contract that gets them a guaranteed pay raise for a higher degree (or they just have status issues and got the degree because they need the title; and everyone else in the game laughs at them behind their backs.).

And if you think those primary nodes are free from lineage based hierarchy you haven't been paying attention.

My .02

FL

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Old 09-25-2014, 05:26 PM   #77
RonRagusa
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Re: Third Wave Aikido

Quote:
Carsten Möllering wrote: View Post
Actually I think it is only the transmission of knowledge that provides the quality of aikidō. I think practicing budō is about transmission of what is already there, transmission of what was known by those before us. It is not about searching and exploring. It is about finding and revealing.
Carsten, you and like minded thinkers provide a very necessary function for the archiving and transmission of Aikido knowledge. Likewise innovation is important in order for the art to remain relevant to successive generations of students who may be looking for a practice that is applicable to their lives. Only by having access to the whole timeline of Aikido development are we able to discern the big picture of how Aikido has evolved over the years.

Ron

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Old 09-25-2014, 06:59 PM   #78
kewms
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Re: Third Wave Aikido

Quote:
Carsten Möllering wrote: View Post
Actually I think it is only the transmission of knowledge that provides the quality of aikidō. I think practicing budō is about transmission of what is already there, transmission of what was known by those before us. It is not about searching and exploring. It is about finding and revealing.
How are they different?

Toby Threadgill has pointed out that, even in the koryu, the transmission is never perfect. There are no perfect teachers and no perfect students. Every generation loses things. If the art is going to survive, every generation has a responsibility to rediscover part of what has been lost.

Katherine
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Old 09-25-2014, 07:10 PM   #79
kewms
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Re: Third Wave Aikido

Quote:
Fred Little wrote: View Post
For instance: Higher education may be a network, but everybody in the game (with the exception of first-generation graduate students who haven't done their homework) knows which nodes are primary, which are secondary, and which are tertiary. Those who have advanced degrees from primary nodes may be able to teach at a primary node, but they're most likely to teach at a secondary node, where their senior peers comprise most of the instructional staff. Those who have advanced degrees from secondary nodes are extremely unlikely to ever teach at a primary node and they'll be lucky if they get a chance at a secondary node. Those who have advanced degrees from a tertiary node probably have a union contract that gets them a guaranteed pay raise for a higher degree (or they just have status issues and got the degree because they need the title; and everyone else in the game laughs at them behind their backs.).
My master's degree is from a school that managed to turn itself into a primary node. They did it by throwing lots of money at the problem: they lured top notch faculty away from existing primary nodes, partly by attracting enough corporate and government funding to build best-in-class research facilities for them. Together, these attracted enthusiastic, highly qualified grad students and junior faculty, many with degrees from existing primary nodes. (Also, the beach didn't hurt.) And now they've won five Nobel prizes and regularly appear in lists of top schools.

And as that has happened, more and more people have been impressed when I've had the opportunity to tell them where I went to school. As you said, if you don't think there's a hierarchy, you haven't been paying attention.

Katherine
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Old 09-25-2014, 10:30 PM   #80
dps
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Re: Third Wave Aikido

Fifty nine years of life experience including 28 years of marriage has shown me when there are two or more people involved in a relationship of any kind there is a hierarchy.

dps
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Old 09-26-2014, 07:04 AM   #81
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Re: Third Wave Aikido

Quote:
Katherine Derbyshire wrote: View Post
My master's degree is from a school that managed to turn itself into a primary node. They did it by throwing lots of money at the problem: they lured top notch faculty away from existing primary nodes, partly by attracting enough corporate and government funding to build best-in-class research facilities for them. Together, these attracted enthusiastic, highly qualified grad students and junior faculty, many with degrees from existing primary nodes. (Also, the beach didn't hurt.) And now they've won five Nobel prizes and regularly appear in lists of top schools.

And as that has happened, more and more people have been impressed when I've had the opportunity to tell them where I went to school. As you said, if you don't think there's a hierarchy, you haven't been paying attention.

Katherine
This is what seems to matter is the world. What really matters is the transition that happens in each individual. Things like master's degrees and Noble prizes don't matter because they are artificial rewards. Belts and titles are too. Aikido happens on the mat. Each class teaches us something about ourselves and others.

.... belts and degrees have to do with money,power and appearance. Studying, having experiences and learning don't show on the outside but what happens inside each individual can be astounding.

Last edited by Mary Eastland : 09-26-2014 at 07:05 AM. Reason: extra and

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Old 09-26-2014, 08:58 AM   #82
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Re: Third Wave Aikido

Quote:
David Skaggs wrote: View Post
Fifty nine years of life experience including 28 years of marriage has shown me when there are two or more people involved in a relationship of any kind there is a hierarchy.
Scale. Scale matters. Situational hierarchy in any local personal setting is formed from multiple lines of relative competence, honor of precedence, and still mutual respect across objective levels of skill and commitment. Humans are tribal -- and in my view always will be, and all tribes have chiefs -- the best tribes have chiefs, elders and tanists (look it up, it'll do you good -- ).

This manner of local hierarchy is NOT opposed to healthy networks at a scales beyond the personal. What those situational hierarchies are opposed to is the larger and impersonal hierarchies -- both on account of a healthy jealousy of independence -- as well as the innate sense of some injustice or lack of true merit in the measures of non-personal hierarchies. I don't defer to anyone but my betters, and I'll be the judge of THAT -- Thank You Very Much.

Hierarchies beyond the personal and natural, are tools of some measure of domination, as opposed to orderly sorting of skills and mutual efforts toward genuinely common goals, for which they are good. Without that immediacy of relationship, the mutuality necessary for healthy hierarchy is lost. Noblesse oblige quickly degrades into divine right. It can become unhealthy very, very quickly

Cordially,

Erick Mead
一隻狗可久里馬房但他也不是馬的.
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Old 09-26-2014, 09:22 AM   #83
Erick Mead
 
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Re: Third Wave Aikido

Quote:
Katherine Derbyshire wrote: View Post
My master's degree is from a school that managed to turn itself into a primary node. They did it by throwing lots of money at the problem: they lured top notch faculty away from existing primary nodes, partly by attracting enough corporate and government funding to build best-in-class research facilities for them. Together, these attracted enthusiastic, highly qualified grad students and junior faculty, many with degrees from existing primary nodes. (Also, the beach didn't hurt.) And now they've won five Nobel prizes and regularly appear in lists of top schools.

And as that has happened, more and more people have been impressed when I've had the opportunity to tell them where I went to school. As you said, if you don't think there's a hierarchy, you haven't been paying attention.
THAT is not a true hierarchy. It is some measure of rank (hier-), but rank alone does not confer rulership or command (-archy).

The point is often lost, I'm afraid, and too many equate them -- which is probably part of the problem.

The possession of 5 Nobels, a sterling faculty and immense scholarly output lends and rightly even demands a certain weight, influence, respect, a certain deference of view, but not unquestioning submission.

What it does not do is confer dominance to the prestigious institution to decide questions and direct things at the "lesser" places, without their consent.

The latter is a true hierarchy; the former is not.

In classical terms, the latter is called dominium -- lordship. The former is filium (loosely "sonship") -- as in affiliation -- which comes from the sense of a thread (filum) as part of a larger skein of yarn from which it derives or with which it combines to mutual purpose.

Last edited by Erick Mead : 09-26-2014 at 09:27 AM.

Cordially,

Erick Mead
一隻狗可久里馬房但他也不是馬的.
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Old 09-26-2014, 11:26 AM   #84
kewms
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Re: Third Wave Aikido

Quote:
Mary Eastland wrote: View Post
This is what seems to matter is the world. What really matters is the transition that happens in each individual. Things like master's degrees and Noble prizes don't matter because they are artificial rewards. Belts and titles are too. Aikido happens on the mat. Each class teaches us something about ourselves and others.

.... belts and degrees have to do with money,power and appearance. Studying, having experiences and learning don't show on the outside but what happens inside each individual can be astounding.
I think it's pretty safe to say that someone who has won a Nobel prize has spent a significant amount of time studying and learning.

As has someone who has been recognized as a shihan by a respectable organization.

To the extent that belts and titles matter at all, they matter because they are an outwardly visible marker of an inner transformation.

Katherine
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Old 09-26-2014, 12:41 PM   #85
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Re: Third Wave Aikido

Quote:
Katherine Derbyshire wrote: View Post
I think it's pretty safe to say that someone who has won a Nobel prize has spent a significant amount of time studying and learning.
<<<ahck- AAAAcklh>>> Barack Obama ...?

Standards slipped a bit, there.

Cordially,

Erick Mead
一隻狗可久里馬房但他也不是馬的.
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Old 09-26-2014, 01:00 PM   #86
kewms
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Re: Third Wave Aikido

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Erick Mead wrote: View Post
<<<ahck- AAAAcklh>>> Barack Obama ...?

Standards slipped a bit, there.
The Peace Prize is different from the science prizes, I'll grant.

Still, are you claiming that a person able to become president of the Harvard Law Review, a constitutional law professor at University of Chicago, *and* the first black American president *hasn't* spent significant time studying and learning?

Katherine
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Old 09-26-2014, 02:18 PM   #87
Dan Richards
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Re: Third Wave Aikido

Francis Takahashi in Kuzushi, an aiki perspective, comments on what he sees as a total lack of understanding and effective application of kuzushi in much of modern aikido.

Quote:
Yet, in Aikido practice today, the application of “kuzushi” is quite often more subtle, and “hinted at” rather than explicitly applied. It is not all that unusual for the nage to begin a “kuzushi” maneuver, and for the uke to finish it. Of course, this smacks of “collusion,” and demonstrates a serious loss of credibility, as well as widespread lack of knowledge or understanding in the Aikido training community of what kuzushi really is all about. It sadly illustrates what these otherwise sincere students of aikido unfortunately lack by ignoring kuzushi’s critical role in making mainstream aikido real, credible, and workable.
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Nonetheless, for those who truly care, we can individually, and in dedicated groups, commit to re-introducing many of the forgotten or carelessly ignored components of O Sensei’s original creation.
Quote:
I can personally attest to the fact that venues like Stanley Pranin’s recent and innovative Las Vegas workshop, the Friendship Bridge Seminars made popular by Hiroshi Ikeda Shihan, regional attempts to assemble talent from distinctly different styles of aikido as in Seattle, Florida and New Jersey, to name a few, a new wave of thinking outside the tatami has definitely begun. What an excellent example of applying proper kuzushi to the outdated misconception of “why bother, our aikido is good enough as it is.”
And Takahashi quotes M Ueshiba concerning the future of Aiki:
Quote:
As the Founder proclaimed, we are merely at the beginning of an indefinite pursuit of true Aiki, and of the Aikido chosen, best defined and practiced by anyone as a sovereign individual. In due time, we will be able to accomplish our individual goals without any requirement or need of established style, organizational affiliation or proof of authenticity to parties inconsequential.

Last edited by Dan Richards : 09-26-2014 at 02:20 PM.
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Old 09-26-2014, 02:58 PM   #88
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Re: Third Wave Aikido

Quote:
Katherine Derbyshire wrote: View Post
The Peace Prize is different from the science prizes, I'll grant.

Still, are you claiming that a person able to become president of the Harvard Law Review, a constitutional law professor at University of Chicago, *and* the first black American president *hasn't* spent significant time studying and learning?
Studying what is the question. Columbia transcripts may as well be state secrets. No one knows. No one tells, either. Color me unimpressed with the result: A 21st century Zelig.

Last edited by Erick Mead : 09-26-2014 at 03:01 PM.

Cordially,

Erick Mead
一隻狗可久里馬房但他也不是馬的.
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Old 09-27-2014, 05:44 PM   #89
sakumeikan
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Re: Third Wave Aikido

Quote:
Dan Richards wrote: View Post
I absolutely disagree, Carsten. I want to go further. To do anything less would be a disservice to those who went before us. I did receive knowledge from my teachers, and I keep unpacking it. It's the gift that keeps on giving. I also receive new knowledge and new experiences that they never had. And I live in completely different times and surroundings and culture than they did.

My main aikido teacher said, "Budo must always reflect its surroundings. If it isn't newer and stronger, it isn't valid."

I'm not interested in the Budo of the last 25 years. I've already lived through it. Been there. Done that. I'm more interested in the Budo that will be evolving in the next 25 years.
Dear Dan,
How Aikido evolves in the next 25 years is pure speculation.Aikido might /might not improve , who can tell? Why worry /concern yourself about this?Surely its not about the past the 25 years, as you state, nor the future [you may well keel over at any given moment] .What matters is the present.It is sufficient to do your best NOW rather than think about the future.Cheers, Joe.
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Old 09-27-2014, 10:51 PM   #90
RonRagusa
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Re: Third Wave Aikido

Quote:
Joe Curran wrote: View Post
What matters is the present.It is sufficient to do your best NOW rather than think about the future.
Too true Joe. Do your best in the moment and the future will emerge built upon your moment to moment efforts.

Ron

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Old 09-28-2014, 07:28 AM   #91
Mary Eastland
 
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Re: Third Wave Aikido

The challenge is doing one's best in each moment. )

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Old 09-29-2014, 11:35 AM   #92
CorkyQ
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Re: Third Wave Aikido

For those interested in exploring the question further, here is a link to an upcoming webinar being conducted by Miles Kessler (https://theintegraldojo.leadpages.net/jtreewebinar2/) - Subject: "What Is The Evolution Of Aikido?"

These webinars that Miles puts on give aikidoka from around the world a chance to connect and discuss subjects about the art and its place in our lives and the world at large.
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Old 10-01-2014, 03:25 AM   #93
MRoh
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Re: Third Wave Aikido

Quote:
"Budo must always reflect its surroundings. If it isn't newer and stronger, it isn't valid."
What means "strong" in this regard, und how does budo show its validity at the present time?

Only when these questions have been answered adequately, you know what direction it should take for yourself.

Last edited by MRoh : 10-01-2014 at 03:29 AM.
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Old 10-03-2014, 03:19 PM   #94
Dan Richards
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Re: Third Wave Aikido

Leo Tamaki did a brilliant interview with Yamada. It's probably the most in-depth, casual, and telling interview I've seen to date.
http://usafaikidonews.com/yamada-yos...-the-free-man/

He covers everything from ranking, politics, self expression, non-emulation, cultural fetishes - to the need to increase quality, and advanced students contining to train in classes. Harvey Konigsberg, who was one of Yamada's early students at NY Aikikai - and one of the main teachers there when I started training - still takes classes from other people, who obviously are mostly lower ranked.

Yamada is in a unique position, and his vantage point is worth hearing. He points to many problems he sees, but he also subtly offers solutions. When asked about "organizations," he replies that, "Groups are necessary of course."

Groups is an interesting concept, because rather than "groups" being made up of people in close physical proximity, the idea of groups - with all the communications technology available and emerging - can become something much more free and flexible. Moving into the future, the idea of groups can expand and become a useful and powerful tool - especially for clubs and people training more remotely, as well as people in far-flung locations who want to work and explore together.

This does present the possibility of truly unlocking the bonds of the limitations of physical location and time. The internet has opened the doors for more open communication. We've got more people from around the world talking and sharing together than ever before. More people and ideas and tools are accessible to anyone.

And it's been a start. But it's only really the beginning of a real revolution. Over the next 10+ years, we'll see ever more technologies and possibilities emerge. And the extent to which we make truly creative use of our more powerful abilities to communicate, share, and learn - will directly affect and determine the future of Aikido in the coming years.

In terms of freedom of expression, I see no martial arts that equal Aikido and Systema. And between the two, Aikido has been taught to a larger number of students for longer, and has more diversity of expression - since we're seeing more and more Aikidoka with 25+ years of experience who care finding themselves on a more creative, open, and innovative path. But Systema has much to teach Aikido, especially in the areas of teaching methods and practices. Systema, right out of the gate, with students from day one, works with Ueshiba's concept of Takemusu Aiki.

Corky Quackenbush and other Aikido teachers have been discovering that a more free-form, random, and authentic training method is advancing students much faster. George Ledyard has given his input that he would completely retool the entire pedogogical process, and could advance students to high dan-level abilities within ten years. The areas where we'll see the most creative and richest growth in Aikido are the areas where new students are brought into the heart of Aiki from day one.

Yamada is really someone to give some serious attention. Because while he doesn't have all the answers, he's showing us clearly where the brambles are, and the areas that need to be cut back or torched to allow for new growth.

And many can already see the new growth and possibilities emerging.

Last edited by Dan Richards : 10-03-2014 at 03:24 PM.
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Old 10-06-2014, 05:06 AM   #95
MRoh
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Re: Third Wave Aikido

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Systema, right out of the gate, with students from day one, works with Ueshiba's concept of Takemusu Aiki.
I think this is a great misunderstanding.
Takemusu Aiki does not mean not to learn any techniques in the beginning.

In Iwama, students did not do any free movements until they reached the level of 3. Dan.

Takemusu is not a teaching concept, it's a condition of body and mind. ueshiba reached this state after a long time of very intensive technical study and practice.

There is nobody in Systema, who can put into practice what Ueshiba meant with takemusu aiki.
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Old 10-06-2014, 09:03 AM   #96
MRoh
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Re: Third Wave Aikido

Quote:
Dan Richards wrote: View Post
and could advance students to high dan-level abilities within ten years.
This happened already, years ago, in reality.
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Old 10-12-2014, 02:47 PM   #97
Dan Richards
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Re: Third Wave Aikido

Quote:
Corky Quakenbush wrote: View Post
For those interested in exploring the question further, here is a link to an upcoming webinar being conducted by Miles Kessler (https://theintegraldojo.leadpages.net/jtreewebinar2/) - Subject: "What Is The Evolution Of Aikido?"

These webinars that Miles puts on give aikidoka from around the world a chance to connect and discuss subjects about the art and its place in our lives and the world at large.
Corky, thank you for posting this and giving a heads up on the information. Thank you to Miles, Patrick, and Dave for setting it up, and to everyone who participated in the conference.
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Old 10-13-2014, 11:12 PM   #98
Dan Richards
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Re: Third Wave Aikido

Below is a link to the recorded conference with comments and input by the hosts as well as others, including Corky Quackenbush of Kakushi Toride and Dan Richards of Latham Eclectic.

This topic, "Third Wave Aikido" at Aikiweb, is mentioned in the conference.

https://soundcloud.com/integral-dojo
"What Is The Evolution Of Aikido?" - Joshua Tree Evolutionary Aikido Webinar 2 of 3
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Old 10-16-2014, 01:28 PM   #99
CorkyQ
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Re: Third Wave Aikido

Dan, I knew that teleconference would be up your alley! We are not alone, despite how it may seem on this thread. One of the things I noticed in the call was that many of us looking at the evolution of aikido as a positive thing and who are projecting that awareness into physical form have gone outside the bounds of their lineages to explore other points of view. Like you pointed out in the teleconference, Dan, this seems to happen after about 20 - 30 years of doing the same techniques over and over and over again. It seems to me that most schools I have taken classes in repeat the same 15 - 20 techniques in their repertoire - the ones that are going to be on the tests. Sometimes variations are introduced but they are largely within the same rigid structure.

The good thing about learning techniques is that they demonstrate paths aiki can take under specific conditions. Training to do them gives the body an idea of where and how to move to accommodate an attack under those specific conditions. Laying down train tracks keeps things on the same track no matter how much the load and number of cars on the train effect the kinetic energy of the joined sections. Whatever the rest of the train might cars might do on their own in terms of a trajectory once they are moving, they will be forced to stay on the track in order to get to the end of the line.
The problem with the practice of techniques is that they train a very specific response to what may include infinite variations. Where a train forces cars to stay in line on a track, forcing attacks into a rigid, pre-planned route, can result in many unforeseen effects. As even an attacker has defensive hard wiring in the brain, he may react unconsciously or instinctually to being forced into an inevitable conclusion that will put them on the ground. His resistance can come in the form of a change or withdrawal of the attack making the technique ineffective in resolving the conflict.

The good thing about techniques are that they demonstrate complex chains of elemental movements used in the art of Aikido. The problem with that is that because they are complex in order to learn them one needs a collusive partner. Over the course of aikido's evolution, including the formation of curricula of techniques which vary from lineage to lineage, aikido as a whole has developed a culture of collusion when it comes to ukemi. This could be the biggest criticism of Aikido outside the aikido community of martial artists, and rightly so. Aikido is the only martial art in which the attacker "loses" every time!

The notion of takemusu aiki, as defined as "spontaneously manifesting aikido" as been described by interpretations of Osensei's words as "aikido beyond technique" and "the highest form" of aikido.

The question that created a sea change in my own personal evolution is why almost unanimously people are taught through technique emulation with techniques handed down through lineages that began with students of the Founder as if (in the words of Mark Freeman) "preserved in amber" when the ultimate goal is a technique-free expression of aiki. One of my most influential and innovative teachers even had to leave the school he co-founded because his own evolution was digressing from the practice culture in the dojo. Before he passed away he told me he wasn't even sure he could call what he was doing"aikido" anymore because of the different training focus.

Following in his footsteps, I broke out of the technique emulation habit almost 11 years ago, and instead of teaching the techniques that I had been asked to emulate, I began to practice exclusively in a jiuwaza framework. No one dictated how an attack was coming nor how to find the aikido. First thing I found was that there were very few on that path with me at that time. It is much easier to feel a sense of accomplishment when you can do things "right" 99% of the time because you have done it that way in thousands of repetitions. It is not so easy when you have an uke who is responding more like a real attacker would based on what you are doing in response to the attack.

Next thing I found out was that very few, myself included at that time, had any idea about the nature of attack. In our culture of collusiveness, we were not giving any time to the understanding of the whole reason for aikido to exist in the first place - the nature of attack. Compounding that was the misunderstanding that what happens in sport fighting reflects true attacks, particularly those with deadly intent. This sentiment is not exclusive to me, of course. Looking around these forum threads one will find many expressions of this idea from many teachers and students alike.

Because of this, I began developing an ukemi-based training model I call Aiki-Lab. It is one thing to recognize the problem and another thing to come up with ways of training (learning and teaching) to solve the problem. The best part of the paradigm shift of going from a technique emulation model to an ukemi based model was that although my partners went to the mat a lot less frequently, when they did go I knew they went there because aiki had manifested, not because they were just going along with the program while they waited for their turn for me to go along with theirs.

One of the benefits of this kind of ukemi based practice is that aikido is often achieved in a much more direct and simplified way and didn't require my partner to keep up with the speed of my complex technique. Also, one becomes aware that often aikido would occur and it would not be until after the resolution that nage would realize what had just happened in terms of technical application. Even beginners could understand the nature of spontaneously manifesting aikido and experience it decades before it would be possible by training the same set of techniques ad infinitum.

One of the recurring expressions during the teleconference was the idea that there has got to be a basis in techniques of aikido in order to get to the spontaneous manifestation of formless aikido, and that makes sense to a degree. This is why I created an ukemi-based kata, if you will, so that the elemental movements of aikido, really only a few compared to the number of complex chains of these elements most people learn as techniques, are learned in context of an ever-changing variety of attacks. Students using this system of learning find themselves doing "techniques" most aikidoka would recognize from their own curricula, but without ever being shown them.

Best of all benefits though is that through this kind of practice one also cultivates the ability to transcend the nervous system automatic responses to the perception of threat to come from a higher consciousness perspective. When this occurs, one becomes very cognizant that Osensei's spiritual teachings are not just lip service to the idea of being nice to each other, but are literal truths and universal principles that manifest in physical form during an attack. This proves itself to be the biggest benefit because one also begins to notice within oneself all the internal activity that keeps this true harmonizing from happening. In the Aiki-Lab way of practicing, the interaction of uke and nage will only result in an aiki resolution (what Aiki-Lab calls a throw or fall) if there has been a transcendence of the lower brain response to a state of higher consciousness. In this way masakatsu agatsu (translated as "true victory is victory over oneself") becomes the operating principle of the practice. This greatest benefit is so because this cultivation carries over immediately into the non-physical realm, the place where even most physical conflicts originate. If Aikido is evolving, wouldn't it be evolving to produce more and more direct ways of resolving conflict before escalation to exercises of power?
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Old 10-16-2014, 02:03 PM   #100
Dan Richards
Dojo: Latham Eclectic
Location: NY
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 452
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Re: Third Wave Aikido

Hi Corky, thanks for those great comments.

Quote:
Corky Quakenbush wrote: View Post
Even beginners could understand the nature of spontaneously manifesting aikido and experience it decades before it would be possible by training the same set of techniques ad infinitum.
Exactly. I can have someone who's never trained at all freely expressing Takemusu Aiki in minutes. I've done this with many people of all sizes and ages.

We had a skinny, tall girl come to a training a few weeks ago. She'd never trained before. I worked with her for a few minutes, and after 10 minutes had two big guys grab one of her arms pretty strongly and hold her tightly with something like 50+lbs of resistance.

She was easily able to move freely, and toppled the guys over. The 10lb arm of a 120lb woman moved over 400lbs of men with zero effort. All while she was cracking up and smiling.

Quote:
Students using this system of learning find themselves doing "techniques" most aikidoka would recognize from their own curricula, but without ever being shown them.
We're getting that, too. Approaching things from the inside out, rather than the outside in.

Beginning from essence and manifesting form.

And it would certainly seem that the opposite would result in this collusion you keep mentioning.

Could Aikido, having been taught through forms, actually be a deception that so many outside of Aikido seem to be able to easily spot? And contribute to the continued collusive/deceptive practices?
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