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Old 09-12-2014, 06:30 AM   #101
phitruong
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Re: Irimi Nage

Quote:
Konstantinus Darwin wrote: View Post
It's impossible to move people in a static and balanced position. I think the initial rotation is generated by the attacker when the nage move inside to the attacker as a response. From then, nage simply grab the head/neck,collar, whatever, to secure the rotation, unbalance attacker, and cut down
not impossible or even difficult, since most human that i know of have only two legs, not 4. something for you to think through: does a 4 legged chair more stable than 2 legged chair? hint: ask someone to stand in the most stable stand, walk around the person, then ask yourself, in which directions when you apply power would that person has the most difficult time to keep balance?

"budo is putting on cold, wet, sweat stained gi with a smile and a snarl" - your truly
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Old 09-12-2014, 09:37 AM   #102
lbb
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Re: Irimi Nage

Quote:
Carsten Möllering wrote: View Post
Niiiiice.
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Old 09-12-2014, 10:33 AM   #103
kewms
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Re: Irimi Nage

Quote:
Konstantinus Darwin wrote: View Post
It's impossible to move people in a static and balanced position. I think the initial rotation is generated by the attacker when the nage move inside to the attacker as a response. From then, nage simply grab the head/neck,collar, whatever, to secure the rotation, unbalance attacker, and cut down
I think grabbing the collar is going to be remarkably ineffective against a competent attacker who has some idea how to keep his balance.

You are correct that you need to disrupt his balance, but grabbing the collar is not a great way to accomplish it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FukKoRaf5KA

Katherine
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Old 09-12-2014, 10:43 AM   #104
Carsten Möllering
 
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Re: Irimi Nage

For us grabbing the collar is kihon waza.
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Old 01-22-2015, 08:53 PM   #105
Asou
 
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Re: Irimi Nage

Hi guys.

So, after a few months troubleshooting, we have been learning how to take the fall first, then we start doing iriminage with ukemi.

I gotta admit iriminage with this kind of breakfall becomes 100% more interesting for the class.

we do these ukemi exercises:

this, this, and this. Oh and also this

Well, we are now gearing towards silent breakfall instead of the noisy one haha. We're intrigued by the soft fall. So silent and it has certain appealing characteristics when you breakfall but produces no sound.

We can breakfall from kotegaeshi, kaitennage, sumi otoshi, kokyunage just fine.

Aiki otoshi has a bit of problem though because you're falling on your back. Gotta watch feather fall backfall for that.

Right now, we're just focusing on iriminage first.

Sorry, not meaning to necro-ing dead thread, but I just realize aikido is two way and uke and nage is like two side of the same coin. To achieve beauty in aikido movement, uke first have to learn how to take the fall.

Well... where will you be when epiphany hits haha. It's been there all the time. Someone said somewhere aikido is 50% ukemi.
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Old 01-23-2015, 02:09 AM   #106
Carsten Möllering
 
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Re: Irimi Nage

I highly recommend the DVD of Jan Nevelius and Frank Ostoff: "Uke Training in Aikido".
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Old 01-23-2015, 10:55 AM   #107
kewms
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Re: Irimi Nage

Quote:
Konstantinus Darwin wrote: View Post
Sorry, not meaning to necro-ing dead thread, but I just realize aikido is two way and uke and nage is like two side of the same coin. To achieve beauty in aikido movement, uke first have to learn how to take the fall.

Well... where will you be when epiphany hits haha. It's been there all the time. Someone said somewhere aikido is 50% ukemi.
Well, yes. You spend half your time taking ukemi. Why would you want to train something other than aikido during that time?

However, "good" ukemi is about a lot more than taking pretty falls. If there is no attack, pretty much any technique works.

Katherine
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Old 01-24-2015, 09:54 AM   #108
Asou
 
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Re: Irimi Nage

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Carsten Möllering wrote: View Post
dear Carsten,

any idea how to get this?
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Old 01-24-2015, 10:30 AM   #109
Carsten Möllering
 
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Re: Irimi Nage

Try to contact Jan:
jan@nevelius.se
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Old 07-17-2016, 05:40 PM   #110
Cromwell
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Re: Irimi Nage

Hi,

Irimi is to enter straight into a technique or situation. I know it sounds like a given, but one needs to go behind to truly execute the concept or technique.

Here is comparison post on Irimi Nage performed by differently Sensei and masters. http://goodaikido.com/irimi-nage-enter-and-throw/

Personally in Irimi I don't lead Uke to ground before returning for the Nage (throw) part. I also prefer grabbing the back collar in the dojo. If you train this on the mat, it will be natural to grab hair or clothing later on, when you need it for self defence.

Also Irimi may not need the Nage (throw) part when you position behind and really capture their balance and put it on there back. One can literally hold uke's back collar and control them. When controlled from the back you can unleash whatever atemi or coat hanger you want.

Always Good Aikido
Technique, Psychology and Strategy

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http://www.northsydneyaikido.com.au//
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Old 07-18-2016, 11:46 AM   #111
Cynrod
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Re: Irimi Nage

Okamoto Shihan's Iriminage is one of the best that I've seen so far. Well, every technique that Okamoto does are all excellent anyway.

Https://youtu.be/Tv7BTKQzn50

From 0.6 seconds of this video is the Iriminage

Last edited by Cynrod : 07-18-2016 at 11:58 AM. Reason: spelling

"For The Secret That The Warrior Seeks: You Must Know That The Basic Principles Lie In The Study Of The Spirit." - Morihei Ueshiba
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Old 07-23-2016, 06:34 PM   #112
JP3
 
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Re: Irimi Nage

Since I've got arms more akin to a gibbon than a typical homo sapiens my own iriminage has no actual "hold" with the hands on anything of uke.

Review Janet's entry thoughts on her iriminage and that's the same as mine, though my arms typically extend past uke's head and I end up with a down-push witht he arm-hand going around uke's shoulder/neck/head, the other arm with a gatame on the uke's previously-attacking hand-arm. Moving with uke into the joint circle point, and turn, rotating them on the outside of the circle into the hole where they don't have a foot to stop from falling (unless/until they put one there) which is the kuzushi.

If they don't react and try to catch themselves, fix their posture which I've now broken and stand, they go face first, it's that simple. Knowing this, you can feel when they are recovering the posture, so you keep close to them, in their back pocket so to speak, and when the recovery is starting, you start your reversal of the circle movement.

For my non-orangutan students, I have them experiment, as I did, with several hand positions, depending on where they end up on entry. But, the expression of the finish is the same (though you can either execute with a projection to the horizon, or a crushing downwards thing where they end at your feet.

I find it interesting that the kanji character for kuzushi illustrates a mountain falling on a house.
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Old 07-23-2016, 08:16 PM   #113
rugwithlegs
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Re: Irimi Nage

I don't like that Iriminage has become a "thing." I don't see this as a useful approach with so many variations out there.

For Yoshinkan Aikido, Sokumen Iriminage is what the others call Gyaku Gamae ate, or Sayunage, or Kokyunage. More than one way to do it too.

Shirata Rinjiro had a system of different types of Iriminage. Chokusen (linear) no Iriminage that seemed to break down into two groups, what some call the first atemi waza forms, and a form of Ushiro ate that extended out. En no Irimi (circular) was also done in front or behind, and so was Sankaku no Irimi (triangular). And the Sokumen Iriminage idea was also a part of it. And these are also called atemi waza or Kokyunage depending on the group.

On the cut, some schools step behind and project through uke, some wrap uke around them in a koshinage like movement, and some step straight with a tighter head lock. And Shirata had an Omote and an Ura Iriminage cut which were very different - Ura is usually called something else in some schools now as nage steps all the way behind and even around to the other side.

The head gets emphasized differently in some groups, but uke is the one moving their head and the rest of their body too. More than a rigid dedication to an idea no matter how valid for the circumstances, I keep entering.

IME, some people fall to the ground in the fetal position right by my feet in the name of "combat effectiveness." No one else outside of the dojo thinks laying their face right by my steel toes is a good battle plan, only aikido people for some reason. Can the kata be forced to change? Yes. I almost never complete Shihonage either.

Shorter people seem to turn more, or break the balance forward more. Taller people have less need to break uke even lower. But the different leads and different cuts are very useful in multiple attacker situations or in complicated terrain.

Some Iriminage are combined with other ideas - any of our controlling hand grips like Nikyo, Yonkyo, or Shihonage for instance. Sensei also asked for other combination of ideas - I'm still not clear on what Kaiten-Iriminage is, but it was on our test requirements. I train it with a juji entry.

These days I am just trying to stay open to what the full scope of what has been called Iriminage is, and how do I make any of the variations work better.
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Old 09-12-2016, 08:05 AM   #114
Leandro Pinto
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Re: Irimi Nage

finalização com armlock:

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?sto...00010821587256
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