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Old 08-19-2014, 02:23 PM   #51
RonRagusa
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Re: Daily Applications of Aikido

Quote:
Matthew Gano wrote: View Post
This isn't so much a daily application perhaps, but I use ki-related practice to help me with my runs. Extension, balance, and breath all make a huge difference for how far I can go and how much pain I will receive: The echo of each foot strike through the body, the accumulation of tension, the way things like that can perturb the nice rhythm I develop.
I was part of a team running from Spokane to Sandpoint this last weekend, and my first leg was 6.5 miles in warm weather almost entirely up fairly steep hills. If I let my attitude turn negative it makes it more difficult, but it's hard to enjoy a struggle that you wish you had trained more for. Still, I breathed into my belly, felt around my body as best I could (listened and adjusted/rebalanced), softened my foot strikes, and focused on my breathing and water intake (it can be hard when you're "sucking wind" and trying to suck water up through a camel pack hose, too; It often leaves me even more breathless). There was a thunderhead passing over and I got some nice growls from the clouds and that sort of things always taps into something primal within me. I let out a grateful "kiai" and felt refreshed...relatively speaking. The joy of it was a second wind before I had to finish the last of this uphill run with the Doomsday Hill (Bloomsday, anyone?). I walked most of that hill, still trying to listen to my body and cultivating my ki; I tried to balance drive with relaxation and by paying attention to my body, I was able to run toward the top and then sprint across the transfer line.
It wasn't until my 3rd leg though (4 miles), that I was able to have a sense of transcending the toughness of the task. I had about two hours of sleep in the last 48; it was a constant uphill run again (the theme for my race legs this year, perfectly echoing for me this year so far), a bit more gradual than the first, but in hotter weather. I finished strong and felt absolutely awesome afterward. It was a matter of finding rhythm of body mind and breath, and striving for fullness in each aspect, balancing drive with relaxation. I had to be in the moment to listen to what it suggested I could do to feel better. For me, this is all Aikido...there was also the periodic tekubishindo and a lot of cutting actions involved. With each raising of the blade (to about chudan) I connected the movement to my opposite foot and imagined a string lifting it. It was a study of connection and drive and joy. Can't wait until next year.
I'm sure there are many people who would point out that you could have cultivated that attitude by engaging in any number of non-Aikido practices. While that may be so, the fact is that you didn't. Yours, along with the examples cited by Mary E. are what Tohei called applications of Ki in daily life. When we take our practice out of the dojo we begin to see the range of possibilities available to us for applying what we've learned on the mat to situations off the mat.

Ron

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Old 08-19-2014, 03:14 PM   #52
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Re: Daily Applications of Aikido

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Ron Ragusa wrote: View Post
I'm sure there are many people who would point out that you could have cultivated that attitude by engaging in any number of non-Aikido practices. While that may be so, the fact is that you didn't. Yours, along with the examples cited by Mary E. are what Tohei called applications of Ki in daily life. When we take our practice out of the dojo we begin to see the range of possibilities available to us for applying what we've learned on the mat to situations off the mat.

Ron
Well, to be fair I did begin much of that before Aikido. Going "mindless" and focusing on rhythm and breath was how I used to induce runners' high during training runs in soccer practice as a kid. It happened once on accident and I was surprised at how pleasant it was and how little I hurt later, despite the extra speed I ran with. But Aikido has become another lens for me to view things like this. To my mind there is "the way of things," and then there are the myriad ways people go about learning about their little corner of "the way." Because I do largely have Aikido in mind now while I'm trying to refine the actions of my mind and body, that's typically what I refer to.

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Old 08-19-2014, 03:14 PM   #53
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Re: Daily Applications of Aikido

Maybe here we meet us in a way:
Quote:
Mary Eastland wrote: View Post
... I did my ki exercises ...
Quote:
Ron Ragusa wrote: View Post
... applications of Ki in daily life.
I also do ki exercises. The chinese word for that is qi (ki) gong (exercise, work). And there are a whole lot of applications in daily life! Of which improving health is only one of them. It also relates to changes in the body and mind.
One very interesting application of qi gong is called aikidō. It's a Japanese budō, i.e. martial way.

Thank you! Have to think about that.
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Old 08-21-2014, 11:09 AM   #54
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Re: Daily Applications of Aikido

As another application of mindfulness (Application of Aikido) in everyday life I changed my key carrying option at work today. I am noticing the habits I have when I go to open a door. I still reach to my belt even though my keys are not there anymore. The keys are hanging from wrist.

I want to be in the now with the keys yet unconsciousness is here at every door. Literally. I will slow down a lot and keep at it.

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Old 08-21-2014, 11:41 AM   #55
Janet Rosen
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Re: Daily Applications of Aikido

Quote:
Mary Eastland wrote: View Post
As another application of mindfulness (Application of Aikido) in everyday life I changed my key carrying option at work today. I am noticing the habits I have when I go to open a door. I still reach to my belt even though my keys are not there anymore. The keys are hanging from wrist.

I want to be in the now with the keys yet unconsciousness is here at every door. Literally. I will slow down a lot and keep at it.
You are using Aikido, the martial art, as a tool to teach mindfulness.
Many tools can teach mindfulness.
Logically it cannot be inferred that any tool that teaches mindfulness is Aikido.
Nor can it be inferred that application of mindfulness, which can be learned via a variety of tools, is an application of Aikido.

Janet Rosen
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Old 08-21-2014, 12:03 PM   #56
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Re: Daily Applications of Aikido

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Janet Rosen wrote: View Post
Logically it cannot be inferred that any tool that teaches mindfulness is Aikido.
Straw man argument since that inference was never asserted in Mary's post.

Quote:
Janet Rosen wrote: View Post
Nor can it be inferred that application of mindfulness, which can be learned via a variety of tools, is an application of Aikido.
The fact that mindfulness can be learned via a variety of tools is irrelevant. In Mary's case it was learned via Aikido study and is applied to situations in daily life as a direct result of that practice.

Ron

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Old 08-21-2014, 12:55 PM   #57
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Re: Daily Applications of Aikido

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Ron Ragusa wrote: View Post
Straw man argument since that inference was never asserted in Mary's post.
But then there's this:

"As another application of mindfulness (Application of Aikido) in everyday life"

Perhaps Mary meant to phrase it differently, but that kind of parallel construction does kind of look like she thinks mindfulness and Aikido are one and the same, doesn't it?
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Old 08-21-2014, 01:50 PM   #58
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Re: Daily Applications of Aikido

Here is an update in the practice of today...it has been challenging. I have forgotten my keys and then I forgot the phone. Then I left the phone in my bike basket. Changing one habit has played havoc with my center.

I like how changing a habit can shake me up and help me become more aware.

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Old 08-21-2014, 01:53 PM   #59
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Re: Daily Applications of Aikido

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Mary Malmros wrote: View Post
But then there's this:

"As another application of mindfulness (Application of Aikido) in everyday life"

Perhaps Mary meant to phrase it differently, but that kind of parallel construction does kind of look like she thinks mindfulness and Aikido are one and the same, doesn't it?
Yes it does look like they're one in the same. For her mindfulness is a trait she has developed as a result of her training. She might have phrased it differently, though knowing her as I do I understood what she meant right off.

Ron

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Old 08-21-2014, 02:35 PM   #60
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Re: Daily Applications of Aikido

Quote:
Mary Eastland wrote: View Post
Here is an update in the practice of today...it has been challenging. I have forgotten my keys and then I forgot the phone. Then I left the phone in my bike basket. Changing one habit has played havoc with my center.

I like how changing a habit can shake me up and help me become more aware.
I see the value in breaking habits, but I'd choose something other than my keys and phone to practice with

(because, see, I've done that...)
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Old 08-21-2014, 03:09 PM   #61
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Re: Daily Applications of Aikido

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Mary Malmros wrote: View Post
I see the value in breaking habits, but I'd choose something other than my keys and phone to practice with

(because, see, I've done that...)
Dear Mary,
With the exception of women in a nunnery/monks in a monastery I usually find that people rarely change their habits.Very difficult to change ones basic nature.Anyway for myself I like devouring creamy doughnuts ,supping gin and tonics.Who wants to eat[for example ] cardboard food /drink smoothies just to lose a spare tyre?Life would not be worth living without the odd vice or two.Unless you have some mean streak[eg stealing candy bars of school kids , putting foreign coins in the church collection plate ,a bad habit has its good points.Nowadays my missus only talks to me to chastise
and whinge to me about my own bad habits.Cheers, Joe
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Old 08-21-2014, 03:14 PM   #62
Phil Van Treese
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Re: Daily Applications of Aikido

Aikido is a great martial art to show people a different path in life, how you SHOULD react to certain situations etc, etc, etc. Aikido will not change you and your attitude but it will show you what would be a better way to handle any given situation. However, a person will always refer back to how he/she was brought up and the character h/s has. Unfortunately, I am very confrontational and you can ask my class that. I will back off to a degree in a situation and then the buck stops with an attitude that I have. I was at a seminar awhile ago and was working with an extremly high ranking nidan who, with a little attitude, informed me I really wasn't very good and that I should know better of what I was doing. Mr. Nidan was bounced from one end of the floor to the other for the next 15 minutes and he found who was good and who wasn't. I could've let his snide remark go and used the aiki to avoid it but it just hit me wrong so "he went to school"! Aiki will show you a peaceful way to handle situations but sometimes that way you were raised comes into play and the aiki will take a back seat.
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Old 08-21-2014, 05:21 PM   #63
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Re: Daily Applications of Aikido

Quote:
Phil Van Treese wrote: View Post
Aikido is a great martial art to show people a different path in life, how you SHOULD react to certain situations etc, etc, etc. Aikido will not change you and your attitude but it will show you what would be a better way to handle any given situation. However, a person will always refer back to how he/she was brought up and the character h/s has. Unfortunately, I am very confrontational and you can ask my class that. I will back off to a degree in a situation and then the buck stops with an attitude that I have. I was at a seminar awhile ago and was working with an extremly high ranking nidan who, with a little attitude, informed me I really wasn't very good and that I should know better of what I was doing. Mr. Nidan was bounced from one end of the floor to the other for the next 15 minutes and he found who was good and who wasn't. I could've let his snide remark go and used the aiki to avoid it but it just hit me wrong so "he went to school"! Aiki will show you a peaceful way to handle situations but sometimes that way you were raised comes into play and the aiki will take a back seat.
Dear Phil,
An extremely high ranking Nidan?How do you arrive at the conclusion that the guy is high ranking?Then again its all relative.In the kingdom of the blind a one eyed chap is king.Did you get pleasure bouncing this guy around?Whydid you not just humour the guy and carry on with your own work?He might have been wrong in his assessment of your skills but would you say that you treated the guy in a correct manner?Seems to me you need to consider your own actions rather than
take umbrage at the guy.Giving him a drubbing is imo not the way to conduct oneself.Remember what goes around goes around.As far as your behaviour is concerned here maybe you should have known better ?? Cheers, Joe.
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Old 08-21-2014, 05:23 PM   #64
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Re: Daily Applications of Aikido

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Joe Curran wrote: View Post
Dear Phil,
An extremely high ranking Nidan?How do you arrive at the conclusion that the guy is high ranking?Then again its all relative.In the kingdom of the blind a one eyed chap is king.Did you get pleasure bouncing this guy around?Whydid you not just humour the guy and carry on with your own work?He might have been wrong in his assessment of your skills but would you say that you treated the guy in a correct manner?Seems to me you need to consider your own actions rather than
take umbrage at the guy.Giving him a drubbing is imo not the way to conduct oneself.Remember what goes around goes around.As far as your behaviour is concerned here maybe you should have known better ?? Cheers, Joe.
Ps .You say you are confrontational?Maybe next outing you will confront the wrong guy and end up taking second prize?
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Old 08-21-2014, 05:46 PM   #65
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Re: Daily Applications of Aikido

Quote:
Phil Van Treese wrote: View Post
Aikido is a great martial art to show people a different path in life, how you SHOULD react to certain situations etc, etc, etc. Aikido will not change you and your attitude but it will show you what would be a better way to handle any given situation. However, a person will always refer back to how he/she was brought up and the character h/s has. Unfortunately, I am very confrontational and you can ask my class that. I will back off to a degree in a situation and then the buck stops with an attitude that I have. I was at a seminar awhile ago and was working with an extremly high ranking nidan who, with a little attitude, informed me I really wasn't very good and that I should know better of what I was doing. Mr. Nidan was bounced from one end of the floor to the other for the next 15 minutes and he found who was good and who wasn't. I could've let his snide remark go and used the aiki to avoid it but it just hit me wrong so "he went to school"! Aiki will show you a peaceful way to handle situations but sometimes that way you were raised comes into play and the aiki will take a back seat.
Phil,
I looked at your public profile 6th Dan Judo /7th Dan Aikido .You set about a Nidan , showing him the error of his ways.I would have thought that you being graded in the above disciplines, drubbing a nidan would have been easy peasy.In Glasgow where I was born and bred you would have be known as a Liberty Taker.Joe.
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Old 08-21-2014, 08:50 PM   #66
Janet Rosen
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Re: Daily Applications of Aikido

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Ron Ragusa wrote: View Post
Yes it does look like they're one in the same. For her mindfulness is a trait she has developed as a result of her training. She might have phrased it differently, though knowing her as I do I understood what she meant right off.

Ron
Well, this is not the first time Mary E has made an assertion and after one or two folks directly replied to exactly what was asserted it has boiled down to it not being expressed quite as intended. Alas, we are not mind readers.

Janet Rosen
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Old 08-21-2014, 09:14 PM   #67
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Re: Daily Applications of Aikido

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Dear Mary,
With the exception of women in a nunnery/monks in a monastery I usually find that people rarely change their habits.Very difficult to change ones basic nature.Anyway for myself I like devouring creamy doughnuts ,supping gin and tonics.Who wants to eat[for example ] cardboard food /drink smoothies just to lose a spare tyre?Life would not be worth living without the odd vice or two.Unless you have some mean streak[eg stealing candy bars of school kids , putting foreign coins in the church collection plate ,a bad habit has its good points.Nowadays my missus only talks to me to chastise
and whinge to me about my own bad habits.Cheers, Joe
Hi Joe,

I wasn't thinking so much of changing habits in order to lose the bad ones (although I suppose that's a good thing). I was thinking instead of a teaching I once read that said that any habit (whether it's good or bad or however we categorize it) can be problematic, if it gets so ingrained that we can't do without it...then it's addiction. Changing/breaking habits is one way to cultivate mental flexibility, which is invaluable in dealing with changing circumstances beyond our control. I see the sense in that. So, no, it's not about making yourself miserable in some quest for virtue -- it's just about not getting in a rut (or, maintaining the ability to cope when you get knocked out of your rut).
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Old 08-21-2014, 11:00 PM   #68
Adam Huss
 
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Re: Daily Applications of Aikido

Quote:
Phil Van Treese wrote: View Post
Aikido is a great martial art to show people a different path in life, how you SHOULD react to certain situations etc, etc, etc. Aikido will not change you and your attitude but it will show you what would be a better way to handle any given situation. However, a person will always refer back to how he/she was brought up and the character h/s has. Unfortunately, I am very confrontational and you can ask my class that. I will back off to a degree in a situation and then the buck stops with an attitude that I have. I was at a seminar awhile ago and was working with an extremly high ranking nidan who, with a little attitude, informed me I really wasn't very good and that I should know better of what I was doing. Mr. Nidan was bounced from one end of the floor to the other for the next 15 minutes and he found who was good and who wasn't. I could've let his snide remark go and used the aiki to avoid it but it just hit me wrong so "he went to school"! Aiki will show you a peaceful way to handle situations but sometimes that way you were raised comes into play and the aiki will take a back seat.
Thats called lack of emotional responsibility - basically, letting someone else have power over you by them dictating your actions rather than being in control of yourself.

Ichi Go, Ichi Ei!
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Old 08-22-2014, 12:04 AM   #69
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Re: Daily Applications of Aikido

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Joe Curran wrote: View Post
Phil,
I looked at your public profile 6th Dan Judo /7th Dan Aikido .You set about a Nidan , showing him the error of his ways.I would have thought that you being graded in the above disciplines, drubbing a nidan would have been easy peasy.In Glasgow where I was born and bred you would have be known as a Liberty Taker.Joe.
*shrug*

It *is* a martial art, someone at nidan level *should* be able to take decent ukemi, and it was a class setting. I don't see what's so terrible about providing a physical demonstration of one's skills when one is requested. Maybe if more people were able/willing to respond in that way we'd hear less BS about how "aikido doesn't work."

I'd be more interested in hearing the person's teacher explain how someone with such a complete lack of manners or humility managed to get promoted to nidan.

Katherine

Last edited by kewms : 08-22-2014 at 12:07 AM.
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Old 08-22-2014, 02:08 AM   #70
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Re: Daily Applications of Aikido

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Katherine Derbyshire wrote: View Post
*shrug*

It *is* a martial art, someone at nidan level *should* be able to take decent ukemi, and it was a class setting. I don't see what's so terrible about providing a physical demonstration of one's skills when one is requested. Maybe if more people were able/willing to respond in that way we'd hear less BS about how "aikido doesn't work."

I'd be more interested in hearing the person's teacher explain how someone with such a complete lack of manners or humility managed to get promoted to nidan.

Katherine
Dear Katherine,
I would suggest to you that this was not a question of the senior person demonstrating his abilities.Phil stated he sent the person 'back to school 'and he then went on to give the guy a 15 min towsing. Well I do not know about you but anybody who does this sort of thing in my book is a person who takes liberties.Whether or not the nidan could take ukemi is not the issue.The junior may well have spoken out of turn but the senior abused his position. As far as the nidan requesting that he should receive a drubbing how do come to that conclusion?Do you think the Nidan said,'come on Phil, throw me around like a rag doll for 15 mins ?'Phil rather than shrug off the comments of the nidan ,used his superior skills to demolish the guy.This is taking advantage of the junior, in a word Phil was in this instance a bully.
The senior clearly got upset about the juniors comments and the senior decided to give the junior a hard time.Do you think this is good behaviour from the senior?You say if more people could respond the way Phil did there would be less people saying Aikido doesnt work.I do not see the encounter between two combatants , where the skills differential is clear, as an example of Aikido working .
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Old 08-22-2014, 02:26 AM   #71
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Re: Daily Applications of Aikido

I think that it is perfectly legitimate to view a direct insult to one's skills as a request for a demonstration, and I think that has been the case for pretty much the entire history of the martial arts, both East and West.

Beyond that, I wasn't there. Neither were you. And the nidan in question hasn't shared his side of the story.

I have, however, been thrown around like a rag doll on more than one occasion. My partners had good control; I was never in any danger of injury. It was a good learning experience.

Katherine
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Old 08-22-2014, 03:01 AM   #72
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Re: Daily Applications of Aikido

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Katherine Derbyshire wrote: View Post
I think that it is perfectly legitimate to view a direct insult to one's skills as a request for a demonstration, and I think that has been the case for pretty much the entire history of the martial arts, both East and West.

Beyond that, I wasn't there. Neither were you. And the nidan in question hasn't shared his side of the story.

I have, however, been thrown around like a rag doll on more than one occasion. My partners had good control; I was never in any danger of injury. It was a good learning experience.

Katherine
Dear Katherine,
Soi if you were outside in a bar or somewhere else other than a dojo and somebody implied you were useless at Aikido would you see this criticism as a direct insult?Would you then go outside, put your dukes up and teach this upstart a sharp lesson?I have been thrown around by many a shihan in my day , but Ii have never been thrown around by any guy who tried to prove he/she was a big man.As I stated clearly its not the fact that the Nidan got tossed around.I am being critical and condemning the seniors behaviour and his motives for doing what he did.
So if you think someone treating you badly trying to prove his point is possibly ' good' learning experience what would you consider to be a bad learning experience?
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Old 08-22-2014, 06:28 AM   #73
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Re: Daily Applications of Aikido

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Janet Rosen wrote: View Post
Well, this is not the first time Mary E has made an assertion and after one or two folks directly replied to exactly what was asserted it has boiled down to it not being expressed quite as intended. Alas, we are not mind readers.
Alas, you are not. If only every mind worked like mine does Thank you again for the correction, Janet.

It does provide another chance to practice mindfulness and in my case...emphasis mine.. I would like to let correction pass just as I would like to let praise pass."Asking myself is it useful or is it not?" I am still human and some get stuck in the craw. Yet I continue to be mindful and watch and see how I react.
So thank you for the opportunity to train in dally life.

Last edited by Mary Eastland : 08-22-2014 at 06:36 AM. Reason: spelling

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Old 08-22-2014, 06:35 AM   #74
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Re: Daily Applications of Aikido

Quote:
Phil Van Treese wrote: View Post
Aikido is a great martial art to show people a different path in life, how you SHOULD react to certain situations etc, etc, etc. Aikido will not change you and your attitude but it will show you what would be a better way to handle any given situation. However, a person will always refer back to how he/she was brought up and the character h/s has. Unfortunately, I am very confrontational and you can ask my class that. I will back off to a degree in a situation and then the buck stops with an attitude that I have. I was at a seminar awhile ago and was working with an extremly high ranking nidan who, with a little attitude, informed me I really wasn't very good and that I should know better of what I was doing. Mr. Nidan was bounced from one end of the floor to the other for the next 15 minutes and he found who was good and who wasn't. I could've let his snide remark go and used the aiki to avoid it but it just hit me wrong so "he went to school"! Aiki will show you a peaceful way to handle situations but sometimes that way you were raised comes into play and the aiki will take a back seat.
So how did the nidan like this experience? Do you think he will be will be back? Does he think you are good now? Were you teaching the seminar? How did that happen if you were not teaching?...I think the instructor would have ended it. Did it make you feel better?...like you showed him? In the end does it matter? Did you really prove something?

I am asking out of curiosity..not judgement.

Saying that the way you were raised comes into play is not true because we always have a choice.

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Old 08-22-2014, 06:40 AM   #75
Mary Eastland
 
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Dojo: Berkshire Hills Aikido
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Re: Daily Applications of Aikido

Quote:
Joe Curran wrote: View Post
Dear Katherine,
Soi if you were outside in a bar or somewhere else other than a dojo and somebody implied you were useless at Aikido would you see this criticism as a direct insult?Would you then go outside, put your dukes up and teach this upstart a sharp lesson?I have been thrown around by many a shihan in my day , but Ii have never been thrown around by any guy who tried to prove he/she was a big man.As I stated clearly its not the fact that the Nidan got tossed around.I am being critical and condemning the seniors behaviour and his motives for doing what he did.
So if you think someone treating you badly trying to prove his point is possibly ' good' learning experience what would you consider to be a bad learning experience?
Good point, Joe. In Aikido class there is an assumed code of safety. It is not the throwing...it is the intention. I am surprised the nidan stayed for it...if someone was angry while throwing me I might bow out.

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