What would you do if someone attacked you in the street?

Katherine Derbyshire wrote: On the other hand, the more experienced student, like the OP in this thread, might also be able to figure out that confronting a drug-addled maniac with a machete is just dumb. Katherine

So, you run away, and then he kills your kid, or some other kid, that happens to walk on by a few mins later. Great strategy.

Rupert Atkinson wrote: So, you run away, and then he kills your kid, or some other kid, that happens to walk on by a few mins later. Great strategy.

Now Rupert that's a bit of a stretch in interpretation.

Self defense is all about creating ma-ai. I use the term rather than just distance because so much more comes into play. Which weapons are being employed, perceived threat and capability, and the need to engage. You are taking these things into account by not being in the situation in the first place, removing yourself from the problem, helping others to do the same. Distancing yourself allows the use of the piece of magic called the cell-phone.

Rupert Atkinson wrote: So, you run away, and then he kills your kid, or some other kid, that happens to walk on by a few mins later. Great strategy.

One is not required to stand their ground lest a violent predator assault someone else. If you feel you must and live in the civilized world, you should probably become a legal law enforcement officer of some sort. When they face drug-addled machete weilding assailants, they usually have the advantages of both lethal and less-than-lethal weaponry (which may or may not be available to civilians, depending on your local laws) and the amazing force multiplier known as "backup".

Note, I am not saying one should never stand one's ground. The decision to do so will depend on a number of factors that will would be foolish attempt to lay out in an internet discussion. And generally, the answer to "was that the right decision?" is only known in hindsight.

Rupert Atkinson wrote: So, you run away, and then he kills your kid, or some other kid, that happens to walk on by a few mins later. Great strategy.

Few mothers would run away leaving their child.

The first and most important rule is to keep you wits about you. Good for aikido. Good for life.

I'm always disappointed at how many people feel the need to call each other out, question each other's intentions and abilities, and generally pick a fight about hypothetical responses to a hypothetical situation. Let it go, people.

How do you stop a mad man with a machete? The same way you stop a mad man with a gun, with a gun.

dps

David Skaggs wrote: How do you stop a mad man with a machete? The same way you stop a mad man with a gun, with a gun. dps

Law enforcement officers involved in shootouts do not have an impressively high accuracy record. I wouldn't expect civilians to do any better.

Katherine

Katherine Derbyshire wrote: Law enforcement officers involved in shootouts do not have an impressively high accuracy record. I wouldn't expect civilians to do any better. Katherine

Then why do enforcements officers carry guns?

0% accuracy without a gun, 20% to 40% accuracy with a gun. I'll take my chances with a gun.

dps

David Skaggs wrote: Then why do enforcements officers carry guns? 0% accuracy without a gun, 20% to 40% accuracy with a gun. I'll take my chances with a gun. dps

I'm sure the innocent bystanders in your line of fire find that comforting.

Katherine

Katherine Derbyshire wrote: I'm sure the innocent bystanders in your line of fire find that comforting. Katherine

If it stops the guy with the machete from hacking them up, yes.

dps

Whilst I understand and support the idea that running is a great strategy, it is not always practicible in reality. The question is what would you do if you were attacked? One would suggest that the scenario might thus be that you have already been hit or assualted and how might you thus respond?

Personally I would respond with a mixture of Krav Maga - most likely done wildly and badly (biting, eye gouging, atemi striking) and ideally if I had the capacity I would attempt to use an Aikido pin to end the conflict and hold the person unitil the police arrived. Whilst people may not like the use of Krav, the point of Krav is that there is no such thing as a fair fight and if you are being attacked, you use whatever tools you have at your disposal to neutralize your attacker.

The Dalai Lama was once asked about how someone might defend themselves against an attacker with a gun and his Holiness stated openly that it is a reasonable use of self defence to use your own gun to shoot someone else that has a gun and is trying to shoot you.

I have no doubt that the founder of Aikido could very easilly disarm a meth addict with a machete or firearm with Aikido. I know that I can not and I would be unlikely to try as a result.

Peter Rehse wrote: Now Rupert that's a bit of a stretch in interpretation. Self defense is all about creating ma-ai. I use the term rather than just distance because so much more comes into play. Which weapons are being employed, perceived threat and capability, and the need to engage. You are taking these things into account by not being in the situation in the first place, removing yourself from the problem, helping others to do the same. Distancing yourself allows the use of the piece of magic called the cell-phone.

Sorry, but a friend once helped me when someone came at me with a knife. I would not run away. I will do something. pick up something - whatever. Would goad him towards me and away from others. I am not afraid of getting hurt. Maybe my training would work, maybe not. but I have not spent more than half a life training martial arts to run away. That is pathetic. In fact, I have come across 'situations' a few times - I linger near. Watch. Help if I can. Keep my distance as necessary. Guy with bottle - take it from him - done that. Guy with large rock - take it from him. Done that. Two scrapping on floor - drag top one off by the scruff of the neck - done that. It is not really so hard as they are usually 'not quite with it' and don't really mean it anyway.

Rupert Atkinson wrote: Sorry, but a friend once helped me when someone came at me with a knife. I would not run away. I will do something. pick up something - whatever. Would goad him towards me and away from others. I am not afraid of getting hurt. Maybe my training would work, maybe not. but I have not spent more than half a life training martial arts to run away. That is pathetic. In fact, I have come across 'situations' a few times - I linger near. Watch. Help if I can. Keep my distance as necessary. Guy with bottle - take it from him - done that. Guy with large rock - take it from him. Done that. Two scrapping on floor - drag top one off by the scruff of the neck - done that. It is not really so hard as they are usually 'not quite with it' and don't really mean it anyway.

Dear Rupert,
Nice to find a gung ho guy on the forum. Nice to know your not scared of being hurt. Then again Rupert define hurt. Do you mean a clip on the chin ,a kick in the crown jewels or an axe through the brainbox? Me, I could accept the chin job, I might welcome the second option, but I am not too sure about the axe.Some might say I could accept this in spades.I have my doubts.
In a word in any conflict situation use your common sense folks. Leave the skirmishing to our action hero Mr Seagal .Only if I was forced to respond would I start the old Marquess of Queensbury stuff. Cheers, Joe.

Rupert Atkinson wrote: Sorry, but a friend once helped me when someone came at me with a knife. I would not run away. I will do something. pick up something - whatever. Would goad him towards me and away from others. I am not afraid of getting hurt. Maybe my training would work, maybe not. but I have not spent more than half a life training martial arts to run away. That is pathetic. In fact, I have come across 'situations' a few times - I linger near. Watch. Help if I can. Keep my distance as necessary. Guy with bottle - take it from him - done that. Guy with large rock - take it from him. Done that. Two scrapping on floor - drag top one off by the scruff of the neck - done that. It is not really so hard as they are usually 'not quite with it' and don't really mean it anyway.

Rupert,
I reckon Rupert you would find it nigh impossible to take a bottle [especially a full beer bottle ] from a 85 year old Glaswegian after a booze up Sat night in dear old Glasgow town.Cheers, Joe.

Ha! Years ago I tried to get a bottle away from an Irish friend who'd had, oh, a bottle or two of whiskey too many already and was preciously close to having a large group of very large fellas beating the daylights out of him. And he'd have deserved it quite frankly. Anyway, you'd think that bottle was fused to his freaking hands. I eventually got it away from him (including his car keys) with the help of some of the guys who were prior to that ready to beat him for being a complete ass. Odd how me trying to subdue him gently actually changed the dynamics rather quickly. Saved his idiot butt. Sadly, he didn't even remember the event the next day. And he passed out basically once I got the keys out of his hands...

Got him home, rolled him so that if/when he threw up he'd not choke to death, then pulled up a chair and waited it out until someone else could watch over the idiot...

So I can authoritatively say that disarming a bottle from at least one incredibly drunk Irish man I knew is bloody near impossible without assistance...

The rest of this thread. Nah, not going to go there. Carry on.

Keith Larman wrote: Ha! Years ago I tried to get a bottle away from an Irish friend who'd had, oh, a bottle or two of whiskey too many already and was preciously close to having a large group of very large fellas beating the daylights out of him. And he'd have deserved it quite frankly. Anyway, you'd think that bottle was fused to his freaking hands. I eventually got it away from him (including his car keys) with the help of some of the guys who were prior to that ready to beat him for being a complete ass. Odd how me trying to subdue him gently actually changed the dynamics rather quickly. Saved his idiot butt. Sadly, he didn't even remember the event the next day. And he passed out basically once I got the keys out of his hands... Got him home, rolled him so that if/when he threw up he'd not choke to death, then pulled up a chair and waited it out until someone else could watch over the idiot... So I can authoritatively say that disarming a bottle from at least one incredibly drunk Irish man I knew is bloody near impossible without assistance... The rest of this thread. Nah, not going to go there. Carry on.

Dear Keith,
Perchance was this drunken gent an immigrant from Glasgow of Irish descent?Cheers, Joe

Nah, pure Irish through and through. No Scottish in him, best of my knowledge. Loved his single malt too...

Joe Curran wrote: Rupert, I reckon Rupert you would find it nigh impossible to take a bottle [especially a full beer bottle ] from a 85 year old Glaswegian after a booze up Sat night in dear old Glasgow town.Cheers, Joe.

Joe - I lived in Scotland for a year. They believe in equality up there; on a Fri/Sat/Sunday night, every man still outside after 10pm has a bottle in his hand. No closing time. They are all equal - so it would be a fair fight, and I would keep my distance - further than normal ! In fact. I'd probably be safe at home already. That is not a stereotype - it was ridiculously true.

I remember seeing blood on the sidewalk in the morning quite often, but usually 'cos they fell down drunk and bashed their own heads. I think the most common robbery at that time (1980s) was to rob those drunken idiots. Sometimes they would pass out in the cold/snow and just die - it wouldn't even make the papers. And if one of those louts ever leered towards you - some are drunk 24/7 - all you had to do was to quicken your pace, and if they tired to follow they'd just fall over. You kinda wonder if you should help pick them up. Nah - keep walking. I am not joking.

Keith Larman wrote: Nah, pure Irish through and through. No Scottish in him, best of my knowledge. Loved his single malt too...

Dear Keith,
Dear Keith , Your Irish buddy has some Scotch in him now and again, namely the 100% Scotch Whisky.Cheers, Joe.

Funny how anyone who trains for any period of time ultimately never has these kinds of thoughts any more. I recently attended a seminar of Joe Thambu ( a great Aikidoka by the way) and at the end he ask if there were any questions. Of course the only questions came from beginner students, not to say that they weren't relevant questions but for those of us that have trained for a long time, the idea of having to fight or questioning whether you will be able to simply disappears along with the questions. I think we have banished the thoughts, given in and simply turn up to training.

If something ever did happen, one would hope an unconscious reflexive action would take place. however, the heightened sense of awareness that comes when you train will allow you to judge scenarios sooner, thereby avoiding the conflict in the first place (even the seemingly random ones).

Epilogue:

The young aikidoka – now 12 years old - who posed the question to me had his own epiphany …

Another student at his high school took exception to his whistling. Rather then asking our deshi to stop whistling, the other boy threw a punch at him.

Our deshi slipped the punch. And he slipped the second punch from the other boy.

Responding to the third punch, our deshi somehow got around the aggressor and applied a goose-neck control.

End of conflict … no one got injured. The aggressor has not bothered our deshi since.

Our deshi actually forgot to mention this episode to me but was prompted to do so by his father – no fuss, business as usual.

I am very proud of our young aikidoka.

Jason Rudolph wrote: I am so glad that you mentioned that your response would be different if your love ones were involved. Often I read how someone would just run away. However, one may not always have that luxury and then what? I think of this especially when innocents are involved and one cannot just say run out of the house and leave grandma or the kids behind.

I would think that most practitioners with a decade or two of experience on this forum would probably take off the robes that are the mental switch of aikido and probably slide into a vest of whup-butt aikijutsu or another bujutsu form in case such aggressive counter-response where actually indicated. The thing is, usually it is not. Usually, Talking Does Work, people just don't have the patience to try, or to stick with it long enough.

Of course, there are situations, though rare, where talking does not even have an opportunity, like the predator-prey situation (e.g. mugging, rape assault, etc.). In which case.... Defend with aggression, I say, personally.

I recently had an experience in my office with 2 large, young guys were acting very strange. One of them got aggressive with me. I only have one door in my office.

I stood up and walked past them and said, "follow me" and they did and then I said, "come on over here". They followed me over to the gate.

I pointed and said, "stand over there" and they did. I went through the gate, slammed it shut and got in my car and drove off.

I was very centered and still and knew exactly what to do. The guy that was aggressive has not been back in the office since and he calls to pay on time with his credit card.

Mary Eastland wrote: I recently had an experience in my office with 2 large, young guys were acting very strange. One of them got aggressive with me. I only have one door in my office. I stood up and walked past them and said, "follow me" and they did and then I said, "come on over here". They followed me over to the gate. I pointed and said, "stand over there" and they did. I went through the gate, slammed it shut and got in my car and drove off. I was very centered and still and knew exactly what to do. The guy that was aggressive has not been back in the office since and he calls to pay on time with his credit card.

:-)