Welcome to AikiWeb Aikido Information
AikiWeb: The Source for Aikido Information
AikiWeb's principal purpose is to serve the Internet community as a repository and dissemination point for aikido information.

Sections
home
aikido articles
columns

Discussions
forums
aikiblogs

Databases
dojo search
seminars
image gallery
supplies
links directory

Reviews
book reviews
video reviews
dvd reviews
equip. reviews

News
submit
archive

Miscellaneous
newsletter
rss feeds
polls
about

Follow us on



Home > AikiWeb Aikido Forums
Go Back   AikiWeb Aikido Forums > Open Discussions

Hello and thank you for visiting AikiWeb, the world's most active online Aikido community! This site is home to over 22,000 aikido practitioners from around the world and covers a wide range of aikido topics including techniques, philosophy, history, humor, beginner issues, the marketplace, and more.

If you wish to join in the discussions or use the other advanced features available, you will need to register first. Registration is absolutely free and takes only a few minutes to complete so sign up today!

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 07-31-2014, 01:41 AM   #26
SteliosPapadakis
Dojo: aikido-dojo-nippos
Location: Crete
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 97
Greece
Offline
Re: Keanu Reeves to Rape Japanese Culture (Remake of "47 Ronin")

Quote:
Michael Jongkamp wrote: View Post
wow, I see the subtitles now and I liked the movie. Not great but nice. however I do not understand the prejudicies which started this thread.
otoh i do not understand any prejudicies whatsoever...
  Reply With Quote
Old 07-31-2014, 08:30 AM   #27
lbb
Location: Massachusetts
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 2,828
United_States
Offline
Re: Keanu Reeves to Rape Japanese Culture (Remake of "47 Ronin")

Quote:
Michael Jongkamp wrote: View Post
wow, I see the subtitles now and I liked the movie. Not great but nice. however I do not understand the prejudicies which started this thread.
What prejudices are you talking about?
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-01-2014, 06:54 AM   #28
mjongkamp
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 1
Offline
Re: Keanu Reeves to Rape Japanese Culture (Remake of "47 Ronin")

Quote:
Mary Malmros wrote: View Post
What prejudices are you talking about?
Well, I found this thread just after seeing the movie and replied instantly without thinking to much The name of the thread and replies seemed not righteous for me at that time. Also this thread started way before the movie was produced so it looked to me that there were some prejudices, and I am a bit sensitive to that lately. For instance, after seeing this movie I do not think Keanu Reeves raped Japanese culture. But then again as an European in the 21st century I do not know much about the culture so maybe that's why I didn't understand it.

First I must admit I do not know the story of the 47 ronin exactly as it been told originally (I doubt there's only one version) but in my opinion the producer and Keanu did a good job in making a convincing movie about it. Despite the fact that Keanu is a bit wooden/stiff/clumsy, I didn't noticed it much in this performance. Minimal facial expression suited his role of lowest class/bashed/outcasted 'demon'. In fact in his role he wasn't a Samurai but followed the 'bushido' path more then the Samurai were. Also the mythical and alien looking creatures in the movie didn't bother me because I have seen (read) those in Japanese saga before. All in all a nice and beautiful American style movie about the Japanese story about the 47 ronin, surely not for everyone.
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-04-2014, 07:30 AM   #29
lbb
Location: Massachusetts
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 2,828
United_States
Offline
Re: Keanu Reeves to Rape Japanese Culture (Remake of "47 Ronin")

So, you saw the movie and enjoyed it. People enjoyed the musical "Oliver!" too, but it's certainly legitimate (and not "prejudiced") to point out that the orphans in Dickens' "Oliver Twist" were hardly bursting into song at the drop of a hat. I have no problem with those who want to make an entertaining film, but I think there's a legitimate complaint if you claim to be making a film of a particular story and then just not follow the story.
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-04-2014, 10:31 AM   #30
Keith Larman
Location: California
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 1,566
United_States
Offline
Re: Keanu Reeves to Rape Japanese Culture (Remake of "47 Ronin")

Huh. Wow. Didn't see it. Don't care. And I don't recall any propaganda trucks cruising through demanding we attend screenings for proper indoctrination.

The, um, drama evident in this thread is somewhat ironic...

The kid wanted to see a movie this weekend that apparently has a small, talking raccoon voiced by some famous actor fella. But I was vastly too busy raping intergalactic culture reading the Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy, Oh, heavens, I hope it doesn't pervert my sensibilities too much. At least I have my towel...

  Reply With Quote
Old 08-04-2014, 03:54 PM   #31
dps
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 2,173
Offline
Re: Keanu Reeves to Rape Japanese Culture (Remake of "47 Ronin")

Umm movies are make believe and are not reality. Their purpose is to make money not tell historically correct stories. The screen writer, producer, director and actors interpret the story the way they want it to be. Any resemblance to actual events are purely accidental.

dps
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-04-2014, 09:12 PM   #32
lbb
Location: Massachusetts
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 2,828
United_States
Offline
Re: Keanu Reeves to Rape Japanese Culture (Remake of "47 Ronin")

In my opinion, if you claim to be telling a particular story, you should tell that story. If you want to tell some other story, then say so.
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-04-2014, 09:32 PM   #33
Keith Larman
Location: California
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 1,566
United_States
Offline
Re: Keanu Reeves to Rape Japanese Culture (Remake of "47 Ronin")

I would think the very fact Reeves was the lead would be a sufficient warning of rather significant artistic license...

  Reply With Quote
Old 08-05-2014, 02:11 AM   #34
Peter Goldsbury
  AikiWeb Forums Contributing Member
 
Peter Goldsbury's Avatar
Dojo: Hiroshima Kokusai Dojo
Location: Hiroshima, Japan
Join Date: Jul 2001
Posts: 2,004
Japan
Offline
Re: Keanu Reeves to Rape Japanese Culture (Remake of "47 Ronin")

Quote:
Keith Larman wrote: View Post
I would think the very fact Reeves was the lead would be a sufficient warning of rather significant artistic license...
Hello Keith,

The same is true of Tom Cruise in The Last Samurai. It is curious that Sanada Hiroyuki appears in both films, and in a vaguely similar role: as the upholder of traditional Japanese values as these are popularly understood. The depiction of the 47 Ronin story in Japanese literature, including drama, is worth a study in itself.

One of my students did his graduation thesis on the Titanic disaster, considered as a vehicle for presenting dramatic fiction.I have four Titanic films and all of them are different. I also have three film versions of Melville's Moby Dick and all of them deviate in interesting respects from what Melville actually wrote. With a film like Troy, you have a double issue, for the film in which Brad Pitt plays Achilles has been criticized from deviating from Homer's account of the Trojan war, but his account is highly fictional to begin with.

P A Goldsbury
_______________________
Hiroshima, Japan
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-05-2014, 07:43 AM   #35
lbb
Location: Massachusetts
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 2,828
United_States
Offline
Re: Keanu Reeves to Rape Japanese Culture (Remake of "47 Ronin")

Quote:
Keith Larman wrote: View Post
I would think the very fact Reeves was the lead would be a sufficient warning of rather significant artistic license...
Well, yes. Note that I didn't waste my money on this clunker.
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-05-2014, 11:16 AM   #36
Keith Larman
Location: California
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 1,566
United_States
Offline
Re: Keanu Reeves to Rape Japanese Culture (Remake of "47 Ronin")

Quote:
Peter A Goldsbury wrote: View Post
Hello Keith,

The same is true of Tom Cruise in The Last Samurai. It is curious that Sanada Hiroyuki appears in both films, and in a vaguely similar role: as the upholder of traditional Japanese values as these are popularly understood. The depiction of the 47 Ronin story in Japanese literature, including drama, is worth a study in itself.

One of my students did his graduation thesis on the Titanic disaster, considered as a vehicle for presenting dramatic fiction.I have four Titanic films and all of them are different. I also have three film versions of Melville's Moby Dick and all of them deviate in interesting respects from what Melville actually wrote. With a film like Troy, you have a double issue, for the film in which Brad Pitt plays Achilles has been criticized from deviating from Homer's account of the Trojan war, but his account is highly fictional to begin with.
Yeah, it was funny, years ago I came across a decent nihonto in a lovely old handmade sword box with an ownership attribution beautifully brushed on the top. What was funny is that it said the sword was owned by one of the "loyal 47 ronin" and used a name from one of the versions of the Chūshingura kabuki (I think -- it was a while ago). So it was clearly a "fake" attribution but the story has such a life of its own that the fictionalized versions are better known and sometimes considered more accurate than the known history.

Then there's the entire Musashi legend that was so, well, expanded by Yoshikawa. And just a month or two ago a student of mine came by with a copy of the Hagakure explaining to me how very informative it was to him about the nature of Japanese samurai culture.

Hobbsbawm in action...

And in virtually every bad movie ever made here with Japanese swords, I cringe every time someone draws the sword. The effects folk put in that god-awful metal "screeetch" sound. Argh!!!!! Your sword isn't working right!!!!!!! Nails on a chalkboard for me.

  Reply With Quote
Old 08-05-2014, 11:23 AM   #37
lbb
Location: Massachusetts
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 2,828
United_States
Offline
Re: Keanu Reeves to Rape Japanese Culture (Remake of "47 Ronin")

Well hey, I got a copy of Stan Sakai's illustrated "47 Ronin" from Stan Sakai, autographed and WITH a samurai doodle from the man himself. I'm such a fan. My old jo sensei saw me reading a copy of "Usagi Yojimbo" once, which has about a gazillion recycled stories/legends/histories, looked at a picture of Usagi with a sword, and said, "Oh, he's a kendo guy."
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-05-2014, 02:18 PM   #38
Keith Larman
Location: California
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 1,566
United_States
Offline
Re: Keanu Reeves to Rape Japanese Culture (Remake of "47 Ronin")

Anyway, I think part of the point is that there are some stories that are deeply intertwined in cultures. And those stories themselves morph to a great extent over time as future generations meld them to impart the important values of the time. Frankly there are multiple versions of the 47 Ronin story with a variety of interpretations. And the business about invented traditions I brought up is also relevant as those stories, often made up or greatly distorted from the historical "fact" (no, I'm not defining that one either) is to hopefully help us realize that these things are not monolithic, never changing things. They are a reflection of their time and place and if they are to survive they often change for the times as much as our understanding of times past are affected by them.

Leaving me pretty much where I started in this... I had no desire really to see it. And calling it a "raping" of culture strikes me as rather excessive. But i think there is a good supply of irony involved when you realize how malleable these stories ultimately are over time. And so many want to preserve the "right" version out of what are in fact many, many versions. When the right one may not even exist...

Sorry, home on my back, drugged a bit. trying to deal with some pain. So I'm chatty too. And probably incoherent. So signing off...

  Reply With Quote
Old 08-21-2014, 04:36 PM   #39
Mark Greenwood
 
Mark Greenwood's Avatar
Dojo: ESTA
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 9
United Kingdom
Offline
Re: Keanu Reeves to Rape Japanese Culture (Remake of "47 Ronin")

The use of the word rape is quite disgusting. Sorry for being serious.

Masagatsu Agatsu. Ueshiba.M
  Reply With Quote

Please visit our sponsor:

AikiWeb Sponsored Links - Place your Aikido link here for only $10!



Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Transmission, Inheritance, Emulation 17 Peter Goldsbury Columns 41 06-03-2010 10:46 PM
Transmission, Inheritance, Emulation 14 Peter Goldsbury Columns 38 08-01-2009 12:19 AM
Transmission, Inheritance, Emulation 12 Peter Goldsbury Columns 32 05-16-2009 07:05 PM
Transmission, Inheritance, Emulation 6 Peter Goldsbury Columns 35 03-13-2009 07:16 PM
Transmission, Inheritance, Emulation 10 Peter Goldsbury Columns 200 02-04-2009 07:45 AM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 06:24 PM.



vBulletin Copyright © 2000-2014 Jelsoft Enterprises Limited
----------
Copyright 1997-2014 AikiWeb and its Authors, All Rights Reserved.
----------
For questions and comments about this website:
Send E-mail
plainlaid-picaresque outchasing-protistan explicantia-altarage seaford-stellionate