Welcome to AikiWeb Aikido Information
AikiWeb: The Source for Aikido Information
AikiWeb's principal purpose is to serve the Internet community as a repository and dissemination point for aikido information.

Sections
home
aikido articles
columns

Discussions
forums
aikiblogs

Databases
dojo search
seminars
image gallery
supplies
links directory

Reviews
book reviews
video reviews
dvd reviews
equip. reviews

News
submit
archive

Miscellaneous
newsletter
rss feeds
polls
about

Follow us on



Home > AikiWeb Aikido Forums
Go Back   AikiWeb Aikido Forums > Training

Hello and thank you for visiting AikiWeb, the world's most active online Aikido community! This site is home to over 22,000 aikido practitioners from around the world and covers a wide range of aikido topics including techniques, philosophy, history, humor, beginner issues, the marketplace, and more.

If you wish to join in the discussions or use the other advanced features available, you will need to register first. Registration is absolutely free and takes only a few minutes to complete so sign up today!

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 10-31-2013, 09:52 PM   #51
ryback
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 196
Offline
Re: "Aikido is BS"

Quote:
Lipyeow Lim wrote: View Post
It's been so quiet here lately that i have been double-dared into making a controversial post.

So suppose a small guy (like me), 5 feet 8 inches tall, 140 lbs, comes up to you and say "Aikido is all BS". How would you convince me otherwise?

If you fail to throw me and make me fall in a graceful aikido way, you just confirmed my statement.

If you throw me around, I would say, that's no aiki, that's just brute force! Hah take that.

So how would you convince me ?

Lipyeow
Well first of all, I wouldn't try to convince you, other people's ideas do not effect my practice.
But let's say that I had to answer, just for argument's sake.
Failing to throw you gracefully wouldn't be on my part, it takes practice for the uke to be able to follow even the most severe techniques in a graceful ukemi, that's part of the art.
So, if someone had this argument, I would apply my techniques, land him flat on his ass, and then let him moan about my...brute strength.
The ignorant's opinion has no value, but his ass would know the answer...
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-01-2013, 07:30 AM   #52
Cady Goldfield
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 875
United_States
Offline
Re: "Aikido is BS"

Quote:
Yannis Mousoulis wrote: View Post
The ignorant's opinion has no value, but his ass would know the answer...
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-01-2013, 07:37 AM   #53
Cady Goldfield
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 875
United_States
Offline
Re: "Aikido is BS"

Quote:
Lipyeow Lim wrote: View Post
The other thing that i think we need to be realistic about is that we live in an age where martial art as a pure fighting art is fast losing relevance -- how many of us have to actually be in a real fight for survival on a daily basis ? So i think it is not a bad idea that martial arts evolve to maintain some semblance of relevance. What Kisshomaru did was one possible way of evolving the art -- perhaps not to the liking of some of us. What other ways of evolution would we like to see ?

Lipyeow
This is a good point, and others have raised it in the past. Many aikido practitioners are not in it for the martial applications, in any way. They use it as a vehicle for other things, such as artistic self-expression. In that regard, as long as there is no misperception that one is practicing a pragmatic martial skill, then there is no issue at all.

For those who do practice aikido as a martial art, the lack of the internal method in modern aikido has not rendered it unusable as a martial skill. Another skill set has replaced the internals, and it is workable for different reasons. The art has taken on a new life in different directions, and that is a natural evolution of nearly all arts and disciplines.
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-01-2013, 08:08 PM   #54
Aikibu
Dojo: West Wind Dojo Santa Monica California
Location: Malibu, California
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 1,295
United_States
Offline
Re: "Aikido is BS"

Quote:
Lipyeow Lim wrote: View Post
It's been so quiet here lately that i have been double-dared into making a controversial post.

So suppose a small guy (like me), 5 feet 8 inches tall, 140 lbs, comes up to you and say "Aikido is all BS". How would you convince me otherwise?

If you fail to throw me and make me fall in a graceful aikido way, you just confirmed my statement.

If you throw me around, I would say, that's no aiki, that's just brute force! Hah take that.

So how would you convince me ?

Lipyeow
LMAO...Not like that question has not been posed before by dudes of all sizes. My answer, "You might be right", and smile. Responses to that answer have varied over the years from folks then attacking you (and thus hearing another common phrase Hey! That's not Aikido! LOL) to those folks walking away with a smile thinking they've "won" the argument... never realizing I have conceded nothing to advance their premise. Terry Dobson called this verbal Aiki, and I agree with his book that all budo has an application beyond "fighting" Indeed the very purpose of Budo and Aikido in my experience is to get beyond "just fighting". Perhaps as a combat application some arts are losing their luster... oh well. Personally I know my Aikido does not suck, that is until I meet the man who sucks less than me. ( and we all will meet that person.. in droves ) LOL. If that's the only way I choose to measure any art well heck!!! I'll just get a concealed carry.... keep practicing my combat pistol skills (since the only objective of "combat" is to prevail and would you know it some dude shows up with an assault rifle, or calls in an airstrike!), and quit trying to better myself through Budo.

William Hazen

Last edited by Aikibu : 11-01-2013 at 08:14 PM.
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-02-2014, 02:57 PM   #55
JP3
 
JP3's Avatar
Dojo: Wasabi Dojo
Location: Houston, TX
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 167
United_States
Offline
Re: "Aikido is BS"

RE Original Post:

I'd take you out for beers, and once we'd had too many, we'd be so good friends that you'd have forgotten your aggressive, combative & argumentative position you used at the outset of the confrontation, and we'd be friends.

Then, the next day, I'd call you up and say, "How'd you like that aikido demo I showed you last night?"

There you go.

I find it interesting that the kanji character for kuzushi illustrates a mountain falling on a house.
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2014, 09:37 AM   #56
Ecosamurai
 
Ecosamurai's Avatar
Dojo: Takagashira Dojo
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 519
United Kingdom
Offline
Re: "Aikido is BS"

The original post made me think of an old quote from an instructor whose name has escaped me at present, but I think this instructor was a student of Chiba Sensei, or possibly Chiba Sensei himself:

"He said there were no strikes in aikido, so I hit him again"

"Our scientific power has outrun our spiritual power. We have guided missiles and misguided men."
-Martin Luther King Jr
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2014, 11:04 AM   #57
PeterR
 
PeterR's Avatar
Dojo: Shodokan Honbu (Osaka)
Location: Himeji, Japan
Join Date: Mar 2001
Posts: 3,015
Japan
Online
Re: "Aikido is BS"

Hard to get excited over statements like that its like the old joke.

Man: Doctor it hurts when I do that.
Doctor: Well don't do it.

The great thing about aikiweb is you can go back and read what you said when you actually cared that someone outside of your little thing thought.

Back then I said if you choose a sub-set of techniques, drill and train for effect and the learning curve is as fast as any art. I still stand by that statement even though I am even less inclined to put it into practice. I like the variation and, my inner sadist aside, am really not worried about meeting the mythical street fighter.

Peter Rehse Shodokan Aikido
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2014, 01:57 PM   #58
SteveTrinkle
Dojo: Aikido Kenkyukai International
Location: Ambler, Pennsylvania
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 232
United_States
Offline
Re: "Aikido is BS"

OK,but, please tell me again why I want to convince you....

  Reply With Quote
Old 03-04-2014, 07:38 AM   #59
PeterR
 
PeterR's Avatar
Dojo: Shodokan Honbu (Osaka)
Location: Himeji, Japan
Join Date: Mar 2001
Posts: 3,015
Japan
Online
Re: "Aikido is BS"

Let me be the first

Last edited by PeterR : 03-04-2014 at 07:40 AM.

Peter Rehse Shodokan Aikido
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-04-2014, 08:57 PM   #60
dps
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 2,119
Offline
Re: "Aikido is BS"

Quote:
Lipyeow Lim wrote: View Post

If you fail to throw me and make me fall in a graceful aikido way, you just confirmed my statement.

Lipyeow
If you attack me and I throw you, I don't give crap how you land, not falling gracefully is your fault.
  Reply With Quote
Old 04-06-2014, 12:17 AM   #61
kewms
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 872
Offline
Re: "Aikido is BS"

The longer I train, the less interested I am in this kind of question.

If you're going to really, seriously attack me, then you're not a friend and so I don't much care what your opinion of aikido is. I'm going to handle the situation to the best of my ability and let the chips fall where they may.

If you're a friend, or someone else who is politely curious, I'll invite you to the dojo and let you draw your own conclusions.

If you're a student in my class, I might demonstrate some of the less polite variations that lie inside the basic techniques.

If you're a random person on the internet, I'll just yawn and go looking for more cat videos.

Katherine
  Reply With Quote
Old 04-06-2014, 01:55 PM   #62
mathewjgano
 
mathewjgano's Avatar
Dojo: Tsubaki Kannagara Jinja Aikidojo; Himeji Shodokan Dojo
Location: Renton
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 2,091
United_States
Offline
Re: "Aikido is BS"

Quote:
Lipyeow Lim wrote: View Post
If you fail to throw me and make me fall in a graceful aikido way, you just confirmed my statement.

If you throw me around, I would say, that's no aiki, that's just brute force! Hah take that.

So how would you convince me ?

Lipyeow
I don't know that I would. "Convincing" is like making the proverbial horse drink water; only it can choose to drink. There's a fine line between trying to convince someone and simply making your case...which to my mind also seems to reflect something about the nature of Aikido, as I've come to think of it. The proof is in the pudding. If I'm able to throw someone around and they say it's just brute force, I guess I'd ask them to throw me around without any brute force. At the end of it all we might not agree about what is what, but at least we'd able to enjoy comparing our respective recipes for pudding.
I would say that tori being able to make aite fall in a graceful way depends largely on aite being able to engage his or her body, but also it depends on a relatively high level of skill on the part of tori, particularly as the intensity increases. "Graceful" is a relative term. If I manage to plant an attacker on his butt, compared to his head, that seems comparatively graceful to me.
I was skeptical of some Aikido movements (note I didn't say "Aikido" itself, which is a much bigger animal and much harder to pin down), and it was only through sustained practice that I learned (something) about the usefulness of those movements.

Last edited by mathewjgano : 04-06-2014 at 01:58 PM.

Gambarimashyo!
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-13-2014, 05:01 AM   #63
snowy
Dojo: wolverhampton / cheslynhay
Location: west midlands
Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 6
United Kingdom
Offline
Re: "Aikido is BS"

Quote:
Janet Rosen wrote: View Post
Why would I care to if you hadn't attacked me?
May i say as a beginner of aikido but a person with experience of life, aikido reply.
Also may i add if you truly believe in what you do in life, such comments dont matter because you know the truth as you see it
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-04-2014, 03:00 PM   #64
Phil Van Treese
Dojo: Tampa Judo and Aikido Dojo, Tampa, Fl
Location: Tampa, Florida
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 171
United_States
Offline
Re: "Aikido is BS"

Aikido is BS? Come to my class and convince me, PLEASE!!!! I'd enjoy it----you wouldn't though.
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-2014, 06:10 AM   #65
lbb
Location: Massachusetts
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 2,741
United_States
Offline
Re: "Aikido is BS"

Don't feed the trolls, don't raise the zombies.
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-2014, 06:25 AM   #66
GMaroda
Dojo: Allegheny Aikido
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 134
United_States
Offline
Re: "Aikido is BS"

Quote:
Mary Malmros wrote: View Post
Don't feed the trolls, don't raise the zombies.
Let's see, fire kills trolls but set zombies on fire and you only get firey zombies. Trolls regenerate otherwise, but zombies rot. I'm so confused!
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-2014, 06:30 AM   #67
sakumeikan
Dojo: Sakumeikan N.E. Aikkai .Newcastle upon Tyne.
Location: Newcastle upon Tyne
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 1,113
United Kingdom
Offline
Re: "Aikido is BS"

Dear All,
Surely like most activities Aikido is both Genuine/B.S?Some Aikido is great , some aikido is rubbish.At the end of the day it is important for the future of aikido that the right choice is made.
Cheers, Joe
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-15-2014, 09:56 AM   #68
JP3
 
JP3's Avatar
Dojo: Wasabi Dojo
Location: Houston, TX
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 167
United_States
Offline
Re: "Aikido is BS"

Quote:
Lipyeow Lim wrote: View Post
It's been so quiet here lately that i have been double-dared into making a controversial post.

( ... deletions ....)

So how would you convince me ?w
I'd probably shrug and ask you if you had Netflix, and tell you to watch Above the Law or something.

At this point, I'm not absolutely positive that what I do is aikido or not, because so many people keep telling me that aikido is BS and doesn't work, and what I do does work, so it must not be aikido. It Must be something else that does work, I guess.

I find it interesting that the kanji character for kuzushi illustrates a mountain falling on a house.
  Reply With Quote

Please visit our sponsor:

Seminar with Frank Doran, Shihan - Aug. 8-10, 2014 at Sunset Cliff's Aikido, near San Diego's finest beaches



Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Aikido Journal's "Aikido with Ki" Koichi Tohei Keith Larman General 1 12-23-2010 03:44 PM
"Aikido and Japanese Sword" DVD by William Gleason AikiWeb System AikiWeb System 5 04-11-2006 08:16 PM
Article: "Aikido Offers Combined Benefits for Mind, Body" AikiWeb System AikiWeb System 2 10-05-2005 01:13 PM
"Aikido Terminology" AikiWeb System AikiWeb System 12 12-09-2004 11:29 AM
"Aikido Teaches Culture" Article akiy General 2 10-19-2004 12:36 AM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 04:06 PM.



vBulletin Copyright © 2000-2014 Jelsoft Enterprises Limited
----------
Copyright 1997-2014 AikiWeb and its Authors, All Rights Reserved.
----------
For questions and comments about this website:
Send E-mail
plainlaid-picaresque outchasing-protistan explicantia-altarage seaford-stellionate