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Old 05-01-2014, 09:35 PM   #1
Sojourner
Location: Adelaide
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Unhappy Expecting forgiveness.

- Grab a plate and throw it on the ground.

---------- Okay, done.

- Did it break?

---------- Yes.

- Now say sorry to it.

---------- Sorry.

- Did it go back to the way it was before?

---------- No.

- Do you understand?
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Old 05-02-2014, 06:26 AM   #2
Mary Eastland
 
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Re: Expecting forgiveness.

No.

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Old 05-02-2014, 07:02 AM   #3
lbb
Location: Massachusetts
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Re: Expecting forgiveness.

Where are you going with this, Ben?
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Old 05-02-2014, 07:46 AM   #4
Sojourner
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Re: Expecting forgiveness.

The goal of Aikido by its founder is Universal Harmony,

Its a good thing not to hurt people and Aikido exists again for that that reason, not to hurt people who may wish to hurt you.

When you step out of harmony and hurt someone, how hard is it to repair that loss with the person you have hurt? Can it ever really be put back the same?

Is it not better to not to hurt that person in the first place?
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Old 05-02-2014, 07:54 AM   #5
phitruong
Dojo: Charlotte Aikikai Agatsu Dojo
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Re: Expecting forgiveness.

why ask forgiveness to a plate? plate doesn't care, human does (aliens might laugh).

or go to one of those thrift store, buy a bunch of plates for cheap. smash them on the floor, one at a time, to make you feel better.

now, if one of my kid does that, my respond would be
*grab a broom and give to the kid* and say "please clean it up so folks won't step on the mess and get hurt". and "once you are done, you are going to get a job and work to pay for the whole set of plates, since now the plates are mismatched." if they are not old enough, then "you will do house hold chores until you make enough to pay for the plates." one of the household chores would be cleaning the toilet.

forgiveness is to be earned.

"budo is putting on cold, wet, sweat stained gi with a smile and a snarl" - your truly
http://charlotteaikikai.org
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Old 05-02-2014, 08:44 AM   #6
lbb
Location: Massachusetts
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Re: Expecting forgiveness.

Forgiveness doesn't mean "making it like it never happened".

Don't break what you can't fix. Words to live by.
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Old 05-02-2014, 09:58 AM   #7
kewms
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Re: Expecting forgiveness.

Quote:
Ben White wrote: View Post
When you step out of harmony and hurt someone, how hard is it to repair that loss with the person you have hurt? Can it ever really be put back the same?

Is it not better to not to hurt that person in the first place?
Do we really need aikido to teach us this?

Katherine
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Old 05-02-2014, 11:12 AM   #8
PeterR
 
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Re: Expecting forgiveness.

Quote:
Katherine Derbyshire wrote: View Post
Do we really need aikido to teach us this?

Katherine
Or more to the point - how does our Aikido training teach us this.

Peter Rehse Shodokan Aikido
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Old 05-02-2014, 12:07 PM   #9
kewms
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Re: Expecting forgiveness.

Certainly aikido can give us additional tools in our efforts to resolve conflict without hurting people. But the notion that simply training in aikido (or anything else) will "reform" a person whose basic ethics are lacking doesn't seem to be supported by the evidence.

Katherine
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Old 05-02-2014, 01:45 PM   #10
lbb
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Re: Expecting forgiveness.

So maybe the question is, why did O Sensei believe that aikido was the right tool to achieve "Universal Harmony"?
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Old 05-02-2014, 02:38 PM   #11
Keith Larman
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Re: Expecting forgiveness.

Quote:
Mary Malmros wrote: View Post
So maybe the question is, why did O Sensei believe that aikido was the right tool to achieve "Universal Harmony"?
Or maybe even ask if he felt it was the *only* tool. And whether he cared whether anyone else was listening anyway...

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Old 05-02-2014, 02:44 PM   #12
kewms
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Re: Expecting forgiveness.

Quote:
Mary Malmros wrote: View Post
So maybe the question is, why did O Sensei believe that aikido was the right tool to achieve "Universal Harmony"?
And how did he define "Universal Harmony," anyway?

O Sensei put MUCH more emphasis on the meditation and purification aspects of his practice than most of his students, and certainly more than most of their students. For him, at least, it was very much a religious practice. I'm pretty sure that he never claimed "Universal Harmony" could be achieved through waza-oriented training alone.

But the mystical/Shinto aspects of aikido are not something that most Western teachers are prepared to discuss, much less teach, and not something that most Western students would be willing to embrace, anyway.

Which means, in practical terms, that it falls to the individual student to decide what, if any, spiritual practices will best complement their aikido training.

Katherine
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Old 05-02-2014, 07:39 PM   #13
Shadowfax
 
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Re: Expecting forgiveness.

Curretly spending the weekend at a seminar at which Mitsugi Saotome sensei is teaching. He has some interesting things to say on the sbject of aikido being a way of harmony and it being a peacful art. Since he is one of the very few left who trained directy under O'Sensei I would guess he has a good grasp of the subject.

The classes so far have been centered around this theme. You can chose to be kind, soft, and to do no harm, only if you understand the uderlying principle behd the techique. And that principle is being aware of where the killing blows are. "You canot talk about peace and harmony, if you do not have skill."

On some level you need to be willling and able to take life in order to choose not to.

At least that's what I got out of it.
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Old 05-02-2014, 08:07 PM   #14
kewms
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Re: Expecting forgiveness.

Quote:
Cherie Cornmesser wrote: View Post
The classes so far have been centered around this theme. You can chose to be kind, soft, and to do no harm, only if you understand the uderlying principle behd the techique. And that principle is being aware of where the killing blows are. "You canot talk about peace and harmony, if you do not have skill."

On some level you need to be willling and able to take life in order to choose not to.

At least that's what I got out of it.
I'm peripherally involved with the translation of his next book. Peripherally enough that I shouldn't say too much about it, except that this is an idea that he considers at some length.

Katherine
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Old 05-03-2014, 05:18 AM   #15
Shadowfax
 
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Re: Expecting forgiveness.

Quote:
Katherine Derbyshire wrote: View Post
I'm peripherally involved with the translation of his next book. Peripherally enough that I shouldn't say too much about it, except that this is an idea that he considers at some length.

Katherine
Cool! I am looking forward to reading it. This is only my secod seminar with him but the subject does seem to be a theme.
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