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Old 04-11-2014, 11:49 AM   #1
RHKarst
Dojo: Joplin MO
Location: Joplin, MO
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 16
United_States
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The Y asks for a Certification - Is there one?

Hi Guys, I have been trying to get a club going since there are no Dojo's in my local area. The YMCA said that they can not allow a "club" but can allow an instructor that is certified to teach to run a class. After 10 years, I don't think my old Sensei ever gave me any paperwork. Any ideas?

Thanks.
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Old 04-11-2014, 02:26 PM   #2
SteveTrinkle
Dojo: Aikido Kenkyukai International
Location: Ambler, Pennsylvania
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 232
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Re: The Y asks for a Certification - Is there one?

maybe your sensei could write you a letter

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Old 04-12-2014, 08:29 AM   #3
jimbaker
Dojo: Aikido of Norfolk/ Aikido Society of Memphis
Location: Norfolk, VA
Join Date: Jun 2000
Posts: 150
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Re: The Y asks for a Certification - Is there one?

Do you belong to an Aikido organization? They could help with certification.
Do you have any old certificates? They might take those as certification.
"Y"s operate under fairly rigorous insurance restrictions these days. Some will not allow jo or bokken training because they are weapons.

Jim Baker
Aikido of Norfolk
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Old 04-15-2014, 08:56 AM   #4
Krystal Locke
Location: Phoenix, Oregon
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 388
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Re: The Y asks for a Certification - Is there one?

Quote:
Randy Karst wrote: View Post
Hi Guys, I have been trying to get a club going since there are no Dojo's in my local area. The YMCA said that they can not allow a "club" but can allow an instructor that is certified to teach to run a class. After 10 years, I don't think my old Sensei ever gave me any paperwork. Any ideas?

Thanks.
Do you have a rank certificate of just about any kind? Something in Japanese would be most impressive, inscrutable.....
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Old 04-16-2014, 04:37 PM   #5
RHKarst
Dojo: Joplin MO
Location: Joplin, MO
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 16
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Re: The Y asks for a Certification - Is there one?

The last Certificate I received was in the late 80's, from Seidokan Aikido, Aikido Institute of America. Since then I have had about 10 plus years working with a Sensei that didn't do much more than give you a belt of another color. Unless you count the Patch he ask me to put on my Ghi that Said "Assistant Instructor". :-)

Any Ideas would be greatly appreciated! Thanks,
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Old 04-16-2014, 04:48 PM   #6
Kevin Leavitt
 
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Dojo: Aikido of Northern Virginia
Location: Stuttgart, Baden Wurttemberg
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Re: The Y asks for a Certification - Is there one?

There is no governing body in Martial Arts. You could establish your own organization that would "certify" you. I cut "instructor" certificates all the time for my guys that need to have them to teach programs at Army Base Gyms or places like the YMCA.

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Old 04-17-2014, 06:09 AM   #7
sakumeikan
Dojo: Sakumeikan N.E. Aikkai .Newcastle upon Tyne.
Location: Newcastle upon Tyne
Join Date: Jan 2008
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Re: The Y asks for a Certification - Is there one?

Quote:
Kevin Leavitt wrote: View Post
There is no governing body in Martial Arts. You could establish your own organization that would "certify" you. I cut "instructor" certificates all the time for my guys that need to have them to teach programs at Army Base Gyms or places like the YMCA.
Dear Kevin,
I do not suggest for one minute that your certs are being given to students who are not capable.Nevertheless to give such advice to others to set up their own group without some quality checks is fraught with danger. There is a danger that any Tom ,Dick or Harry could set up their own group, call themselves Tenth dan, teach rubbish and charge a fortune to unsuspecting people.Therein lies the danger. If absolutely anybody can do what you suggest imo this is a recipe for disaster.
Before long you would have what I call John Wayne aikido instructors.A bunch of cowboys,
Self promoted guys with vastly inflated ranks, titles.Heaven forbid.Cheers, Joe.
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Old 04-17-2014, 07:07 AM   #8
PeterR
 
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Dojo: Shodokan Honbu (Osaka)
Location: Himeji, Japan
Join Date: Mar 2001
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Re: The Y asks for a Certification - Is there one?

Quote:
Joe Curran wrote: View Post
Dear Kevin,
I do not suggest for one minute that your certs are being given to students who are not capable.Nevertheless to give such advice to others to set up their own group without some quality checks is fraught with danger. There is a danger that any Tom ,Dick or Harry could set up their own group, call themselves Tenth dan, teach rubbish and charge a fortune to unsuspecting people.Therein lies the danger. If absolutely anybody can do what you suggest imo this is a recipe for disaster.
Before long you would have what I call John Wayne aikido instructors.A bunch of cowboys,
Self promoted guys with vastly inflated ranks, titles.Heaven forbid.Cheers, Joe.
The problem??? Look around its being done all the time.

Peter Rehse Shodokan Aikido
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Old 04-17-2014, 08:02 AM   #9
lbb
Location: Massachusetts
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 2,816
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Re: The Y asks for a Certification - Is there one?

Quote:
Joe Curran wrote: View Post
I do not suggest for one minute that your certs are being given to students who are not capable.Nevertheless to give such advice to others to set up their own group without some quality checks is fraught with danger. There is a danger that any Tom ,Dick or Harry could set up their own group, call themselves Tenth dan, teach rubbish and charge a fortune to unsuspecting people.Therein lies the danger. If absolutely anybody can do what you suggest imo this is a recipe for disaster.
If he didn't suggest it, would the danger somehow go away? For that matter, if someone is inclined to be a charlatan, do you really think the idea would never have occurred to them if they didn't read Kevin's post? Calling his suggestion "fraught with danger" is like saying that it's "dangerous" to point out that you can make a molotov cocktail with a bit of gasoline, a glass bottle and an old rag: it's something that every potential bad actor already knows, so it creates no danger.
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Old 04-17-2014, 10:16 AM   #10
Larry Feldman
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Dojo: Atlanta School of Aikido
Location: Atlanta, GA
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Re: The Y asks for a Certification - Is there one?

How about a letter of reference from your instructor. He should include his background and qualifications and that he believes you are capable and qualified to instruct.

You might have to draft the letter for him to sign.
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Old 04-17-2014, 11:44 AM   #11
Eric in Denver
Dojo: Ronin
Location: CO
Join Date: Oct 2009
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Re: The Y asks for a Certification - Is there one?

I had the same problem with the Y and was never able to get beyond it. A letter from my Sensei, in English, explaining what 3dan meant in aikido, what training I had received, and his personal recommendation that I be able to teach was not good enough. I also supplied a copy of my dan certification and links to the aikikai website, but that still wasn't good enough.

Apparently what they wanted was more of a certification from a nationally recognized organization, more akin to a physical trainer certification. It was all very frustrating because they actually had someone renting space to teach a Tae Kwon Do class! Probably because they saw that more as a competitive sport than a martial art.

However, I think this is case by case. Someone else a few cities over is having no problems with their Y, and another person is teaching at a community sports center and not having any problems.

Good luck to you!
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Old 04-17-2014, 01:54 PM   #12
Rob Watson
Location: CA
Join Date: Sep 2005
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Re: The Y asks for a Certification - Is there one?

This is exactly the kind of thing a professional organization would help with. Hello Aikikai? USAF? Bueller?

"In my opinion, the time of spreading aikido to the world is finished; now we have to focus on quality." Yamada Yoshimitsu

Ultracrepidarianism ... don't.
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Old 04-17-2014, 03:07 PM   #13
Kevin Leavitt
 
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Dojo: Aikido of Northern Virginia
Location: Stuttgart, Baden Wurttemberg
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Re: The Y asks for a Certification - Is there one?

Quote:
Eric DesMarais wrote: View Post
I had the same problem with the Y and was never able to get beyond it. A letter from my Sensei, in English, explaining what 3dan meant in aikido, what training I had received, and his personal recommendation that I be able to teach was not good enough. I also supplied a copy of my dan certification and links to the aikikai website, but that still wasn't good enough.

Apparently what they wanted was more of a certification from a nationally recognized organization, more akin to a physical trainer certification. It was all very frustrating because they actually had someone renting space to teach a Tae Kwon Do class! Probably because they saw that more as a competitive sport than a martial art.

However, I think this is case by case. Someone else a few cities over is having no problems with their Y, and another person is teaching at a community sports center and not having any problems.

Good luck to you!
France doesn't have this problem since they have actual governing bodies for martial arts. In the US, without a governing body, anyone can certify anyone else. Like it or not, that is the way it is.

I have my own organization, I have an LLC to protect me. I have my published standards and we have a board of directors etc. So, I am more than comfortable cutting certificates for people that I think are qualified to teach in a "Y". Of course, you run the risk of liability and getting sucked into a suit...hence why it is important to have a LLC, board, standards, rules etc. Not that any of that is necessary. The "Y" wouldn't know who to ask anyway, unless the have published standards that say you must be affiliated with AAU, USAF, ITF, or any number of self professed "organizations".

Yoga is a good one and they have the business of Yoga figured out. RYT, and other credentials. the fact is you can be a certified yoga instructor in very little time! and that is good enough for them.

I require my "instructors" to meet organizational standards, we have a instructor training course, and they must be red cross certified in first aid and CPR.

However, YMMV, and yes, you can still simply get your buddy to certify you with a piece of paper. too easy.

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Old 04-17-2014, 03:16 PM   #14
Kevin Leavitt
 
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Dojo: Aikido of Northern Virginia
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Re: The Y asks for a Certification - Is there one?

Quote:
Joe Curran wrote: View Post
Dear Kevin,
I do not suggest for one minute that your certs are being given to students who are not capable.Nevertheless to give such advice to others to set up their own group without some quality checks is fraught with danger. There is a danger that any Tom ,Dick or Harry could set up their own group, call themselves Tenth dan, teach rubbish and charge a fortune to unsuspecting people.Therein lies the danger. If absolutely anybody can do what you suggest imo this is a recipe for disaster.
Before long you would have what I call John Wayne aikido instructors.A bunch of cowboys,
Self promoted guys with vastly inflated ranks, titles.Heaven forbid.Cheers, Joe.
Yes, as Peter and a few others point out this is already being done all the time. However, assuming that the person asking the question is qualified and is simply trying to navigate the bureaucracy of two organizations, one, the Y that is organized, and two, an aikido bureaucracy that does not have a process or method for producing certificates, where is the rub? You do what you need to do to make that happen.

The US tends to operate on Caveat Emptor with the exception of things such as Doctors and Lawyers where the stakes of screwing up are important. For the rest of the free market, it is "buyer beware".

What I like about the internet is we have access to information that 30 years ago we didn't have so folks can make more informed decisions if they so choose to.

Also, lets get real...do we really pretend that the Y cares or can even discern "quality instruction" or are they concerned with liability and making sure that simply nobody gets hurt?

In most gyms such as the Y they will have guidelines about what you can and cannot do in a martial arts class. Many clubs and gyms will limit striking, full contact, and kicking. Many will require use of protective equipment..outside of that stuff, they don't care if you are teaching "quality".

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