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Old 02-10-2014, 09:07 AM   #26
dps
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Re: How do you deal with.....

Quote:
Peter Rehse wrote: View Post
Now if that were part of what was signed up for fine but its not. An ass is an ass.
Sorry Sensei, I did not sign up for it in any part of the Aikido or any martial art that I signed up for. Nor high school sports that I took, any of the jobs that I had, the church that I went to, or any part of life that it happened in. but it does happen and the only real control you have over it is how you react to it.

Asses everywhere you go, need to learn to deal with them.. Part of the martial arts training.

dps
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Old 02-10-2014, 09:18 AM   #27
lbb
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Re: How do you deal with.....

This thread sure is full of YMMV, isn't it? Where I train, we're strongly encouraged to leave our baggage outside when we come into the dojo. The way I see it, that includes both the need to swear at a training partner out of frustration, and the burdens of our past traumas. It's understandable that we don't always completely succeed, but it's important to try. You can't train effectively if you're carrying baggage with you.
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Old 02-10-2014, 09:19 AM   #28
"Stuck"
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Re: How do you deal with.....

Quote:
David Skaggs wrote: View Post
Sorry Sensei, I did not sign up for it in any part of the Aikido or any martial art that I signed up for. Nor high school sports that I took, any of the jobs that I had, the church that I went to, or any part of life that it happened in. but it does happen and the only real control you have over it is how you react to it.

Asses everywhere you go, need to learn to deal with them.. Part of the martial arts training.

dps
I am dealing with it. I initially told the chick that i learn slow. The second time i said i am a white belt and i learn at my own pace and i will make mistakes. What more do i have to do to stop her from disrespecting me? Not "play" with her anymore?

I tried to get some opinions from others who have dealt with this and you tell me to suck it up and deal with it. Is that not what i am doing? I am dealing with it. If you cant see that then that is not my problem mate.
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Old 02-10-2014, 09:43 AM   #29
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Re: How do you deal with.....

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Anonymous User wrote: View Post
I tried to get some opinions from others who have dealt with this
But we haven't. We haven't trained with this person and we haven't trained in your dojo. Have you spoken to others in your dojo? What do they have to say?

If you ask here, please don't blame us for responding out of our own experiences, not out of some knowledge of your situation that we don't have. If you're going to be upset by the opinions of people who don't fully understand your situation, then it's best not to soliciti opinions from people who cannot have such understanding.
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Old 02-10-2014, 09:48 AM   #30
PeterR
 
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Re: How do you deal with.....

Quote:
David Skaggs wrote: View Post
Sorry Sensei, I did not sign up for it in any part of the Aikido or any martial art that I signed up for. Nor high school sports that I took, any of the jobs that I had, the church that I went to, or any part of life that it happened in. but it does happen and the only real control you have over it is how you react to it.

Asses everywhere you go, need to learn to deal with them.. Part of the martial arts training.

dps
Right David I get that - and yes no matter where you go every now and then you will run into that type and we should all learn to deal with it.

My point is that we should deal with it and not fall into the false logic that it is part of the martial arts training and thereby just put up with it (sorry if I misread your post).

I am looking at this from both a student perspective and also running the occasional class. There is nothing more frustrating from both sides than having what is essentially disruptive behavior. The question from the original poster is how do you deal with it.

Peter Rehse Shodokan Aikido
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Old 02-10-2014, 10:16 AM   #31
dps
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Re: How do you deal with.....

As an instructor it should not be allowed nor should it come from the person instructing.. As a student it is only disruptive if you let it upset you. Part of the martial arts training is to remain calm during an attack. You should be able to not react to quiet swearing during practice.

dps
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Old 02-10-2014, 10:27 AM   #32
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Re: How do you deal with.....

Quote:
David Skaggs wrote: View Post
As an instructor it should not be allowed nor should it come from the person instructing.. As a student it is only disruptive if you let it upset you. Part of the martial arts training is to remain calm during an attack. You should be able to not react to quiet swearing during practice.

dps
And I think in this case you are completely right. It sounds very much like the cusser is not much further along the path as the cussee and there really is no danger to any of the parties. I think the original poster did right by asking the person directly - at least now they are aware of the problem. Beyond that its best to just let it slide and use your other partners to get better.

Peter Rehse Shodokan Aikido
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Old 02-10-2014, 10:59 PM   #33
charyuop
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Re: How do you deal with.....

I wouldn't let it go. It happened already twice and it is likely to happen again. You can't have two martial artists practice together if there is 'tension' between the two. Injuries might come out of this situation. I would let the sensei know and let him handle it. It's his job.

I came back to aikido after several years for personal illness. I did not know if I had to come back because I did not want to interfere with classes due to my limitations. Sensei told me to trust him and go back. A sensei's job is to handle with the situations, not just to teach you a technique.
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Old 02-14-2014, 03:17 PM   #34
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Re: How do you deal with.....

Tonight's class was interesting to say the least.

I went in with a fresh mind and not to let her actions affect me. I was again paired up with her and it went fine until she started slapping me physically in places when i got stuff wrong like you do with little children to correct them. Little slaps.

At first lightly but then it got harder until i had enough of it and told her not to slap me when i get stuff wrong. I am not a 6 year old, i told her, and do not need to be slapped like that to be corrected. I even mentioned it again in case she did not get it that she has got to stop slapping me like that as it is wrong.

She kept saying no. As if she is not going to stop slapping me. At which point i said yes. It turned into a tug of war with words which just made me angry since was basically telling me to my face that she is gonna continue slapping me despite my wishes not to. She knew i was being serious just by the look of my face as it was getting angry. This was no game anymore and i was not backing down. If i ask you not to do something to me you better stop it or else. There was no mistaking me and my intentions not to be slapped.

When i found myself taking steps to square off with her since she would not back down with her threats to keep hitting me i called sensei over and told him that somebody needs to talk to her about her actions.

I bowed to her even though she did not deserve it and did an about face as the class was over.

Tonight she was boasting about how she get the technique after two months. She was trying to put me down again. This was just before she slapped my arm the last time and i spoke up against it.

I pay money to learn this stuff at my own pace and will not be treated like that. How she treats her husband and others in the class is not my concern but i will not be slapped like a 6 year old. Especially since i asked her not to do that anymore.

After class in the male changing room i said to her husband about the slapping and that i do not like it. He responded by saying she was just playing at which point i said i dont care since i will not be corrected that way. He replied by saying:"are you a man or what?". I said it has nothing to do with that and it is disrespectful. I left it at that. If he wants to be treated like that it's his problem and not mine but i will not stand for it.

After a few tug of war yes and no's she could not have mistaken my intention not to be treated like that so why did she persist? She was again cussing on the mat for various reasons which probably included me.

I have resolved to not train with either of them anymore. I dont need that disrespect.

So, i tried to let her words go and she starts resorting to physical actions. I imagine that it would soon progress to actual physical violence and possible slaps to the face had i not put a stop to it. This chick is crazy.

I
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Old 02-14-2014, 05:05 PM   #35
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Re: How do you deal with.....

Have you explained in detail to your sensei what is going on? If so has he taken steps to change her behavior? If he has not, and assuming we are getting a complete and accurate story from you, then you may want to start looking for a new dojo or learn to accept her behavior. I'm not condoning her actions but if your sensei doesn't want to change it then I have no reason to believe it will ever change.
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Old 02-14-2014, 06:54 PM   #36
Janet Rosen
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Re: How do you deal with.....

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it went fine until she started slapping me physically in places when i got stuff wrong like you do with little children to correct them. Little slaps...
At first lightly but then it got harder until i had enough of it and told her not to slap me when i get stuff wrong. I am not a 6 year old, i told her, and do not need to be slapped like that to be corrected....
She kept saying no. As if she is not going to stop slapping me. At which point i said yes. It turned into a tug of war with words which just made me angry since was basically telling me to my face that she is gonna continue slapping me despite my wishes not to....
When i found myself taking steps to square off with her since she would not back down with her threats to keep hitting me i called sensei over and told him that somebody needs to talk to her about her actions.
Jeez. She is out of control. You were correct to stand up for your right to train without abuse, and you were correct to do so without resorting to her b.s. You are correct to absolutely not train with her anymore. You were correct to call over your Sensei and I am curious to know his response - to me that is the key to whether I would continue in the dojo or not.
Frankly I don't think I'd bring her spouse into it at all. Deal with her, deal with Sensei. If the dojo culture at large tolerates a sempai treating a junior like that, I for one would be out of there in a heartbeat.

Last edited by akiy : 02-18-2014 at 12:01 AM. Reason: Fixed quote tag

Janet Rosen
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Old 02-14-2014, 07:23 PM   #37
charyuop
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Re: How do you deal with.....

Either talk face to face to sensei or leave the dojo.
There is always a less aiki way...next time you practice shihonage, do it wrong and apologize...after you break her elbow (I'm kidding of course)
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Old 02-14-2014, 08:37 PM   #38
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Re: How do you deal with.....

On wednesday's class i did talk briefly with several of my sensei's about the subject of her. So this was prior to tonights', fridays, episode. One said to ignore it, the verbal stuff, as best as i can just as janet suggested in this thread. So i did, till it turned to physical actions at which point i had to say something to her directly.

The other sensei's suggested, on wednesday, that "they will take care of it". Meaning that they will speak with her. At that point i did not want to be seen as not being able to "take care" of my own issues and i was troubled by somebody else trying to take care of my own issues and i mentioned that to them. I cant have that. It is not helping me and could even make me look weak and unable to handle my own situations. They suggested that there are ways for them to talk to her without it looking like it came from me. As in they overheard her say stuff and this is not the way.

I do not think it will work now as the cat is truly out of the bag.

We have lots of different sensei's who teach us as they, the dan grades, are all on a revolving teaching calendar. The sensei tonight whom i pulled aside came back with:"She was just kidding around". I really respect this person and cannot believe that he is ok with this behavior as she was just kidding around.

That is not good enough for me and i cannot accept that at all.

What kind of a person says, repeatedly, no when first asked and then told for them not to hit me? Seriously, i almost got in this chicks face till i thought better of it and got sensei as she is just trucking nuts and has no respect for me. There is no way in hell she could have thought i was kidding when i asked her not to hit me.

Sorry. English is not my mother tongue either and i do tend to form rather long run on sentences
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Old 02-14-2014, 09:14 PM   #39
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Re: How do you deal with.....

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Anonymous User wrote: View Post
Tonight's class was interesting to say the least.

At first lightly but then it got harder until i had enough of it and told her not to slap me when i get stuff wrong. I am not a 6 year old, i told her, and do not need to be slapped like that to be corrected.
I
You think it would have been ok for her to do this to you when you where 6 years old?
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Old 02-15-2014, 10:25 AM   #40
"Stuck"
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Re: How do you deal with.....

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Victor Williams wrote: View Post
You think it would have been ok for her to do this to you when you where 6 years old?
I agree that correcting behavior in a manner that involves harmful physical action is inherently wrong when the punishment is excessive or deemed to be hurtful physically.

But is your answer to a child reaching up to the hot and invisible ceramic cooker to let them get burned? Would you rather let the child's hand burn? Would you let the child pull down the boiling hot kettle to teach them a lesson? In the end you are doing more harm than a simple instinctive smack would do and for what reason? Or would you smack the hand away in a desperate attempt to stop something terrible from happening? That is the difference i am trying to highlight.

Do you have children? I do. I know what they can get up to. If you do not have children you might not be aware of how easily they can place themselves into danger no matter how much you try to educate them.

It's a tough choice i know. I got the smack, more or less beatings, when i was little but there is a difference, i think, between a gentle correction, or prevention as i like to think of it, than some hard core beating which i do not approve of. I thought i would make that distinction.

I agree with your aim of your statement however i needed to bring to light the fact that this does not work in the real world.
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Old 02-15-2014, 10:49 AM   #41
"Stuck"
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Re: How do you deal with.....

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Victor Williams wrote: View Post
You think it would have been ok for her to do this to you when you where 6 years old?
Furthermore, how do you reconcile your statement with the recent use of a shinai in our art?

Apparently to strike and cause pain to your student in an attempt to teach them something when they did wrong was popular. I have learned by accident when forgetting to block the atemi. It hurts. So you remember. But this is accidental learning if that makes sense to you.

I don't approve of the shinai method especially since i am paying for the instruction. If i wanted that sort of interaction i would visit a dominatrix. Which i don't. But again there is a difference between the shinai method of correction using pain and the use of a technique which i had to use which was a gentle smack.

I did not sign up to be taught in this manner by a senior student. My child does not know any better when they reach up to the stove. Slight differences.

I do appreciate your comment however. It made me think. Thank you
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Old 02-15-2014, 11:45 AM   #42
Brian Gillaspie
 
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Re: How do you deal with.....

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Anonymous User wrote: View Post
The other sensei's suggested, on wednesday, that "they will take care of it". Meaning that they will speak with her. At that point i did not want to be seen as not being able to "take care" of my own issues and i was troubled by somebody else trying to take care of my own issues and i mentioned that to them. I cant have that. It is not helping me and could even make me look weak and unable to handle my own situations. They suggested that there are ways for them to talk to her without it looking like it came from me. As in they overheard her say stuff and this is not the way.
I would recommend letting the senseis help if they are offering to help. The girl obviously is not going to listen to you. And asking someone for help does not mean you are weak.
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Old 02-15-2014, 12:19 PM   #43
Krystal Locke
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Re: How do you deal with.....

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I am dealing with it. I initially told the chick that i learn slow. The second time i said i am a white belt and i learn at my own pace and i will make mistakes. What more do i have to do to stop her from disrespecting me? Not "play" with her anymore?

I tried to get some opinions from others who have dealt with this and you tell me to suck it up and deal with it. Is that not what i am doing? I am dealing with it. If you cant see that then that is not my problem mate.
Give us some more to go on here. You say you are a white belt. That does not necessarily tell us much about your experience. How long have you trained? Why do you do aikido? How long has the woman you are having a problem with trained? Why does she train? Here's a big question about doing aikido. What expectations are you really carrying into your training?

There's lots of talk about second languages here. What's more important is that you both seem to be dealing with second cultures. Third, even, unless you are maybe training in Japan. What is the cultural background of the dojo you train at? What is your cultural background? What is hers? What is the gender dynamic? Age dynamic?

Lets talk about respect. You say that you think strong word choice on the mat is disrespectful to the founder. Why do you think that? Do you think that the founder (which founder? I'm assuming you're talking about Morihei Ueshiba, but I could easily be wrong.) is offended by this woman's actions? Are you carrying expectations as a white belt into your training? You think that the woman you're having a problem is disrespecting you. Why do you think that? If I pointed out that you just called her a chick, would it be unreasonable for me to think you are not respectful of her? If cussing is disrespectful bad wrong and awful, does changing the word fucking to the word trucking somehow erase the intent behind it?

You are having a problem with an individual. You have choices, you are making choices, and you are acting upon your choices. This is good self-defense, and good training. But you also have to evaluate the consequences of your choices and actions.

One action you have taken is to bring your issue to aikiweb. Even anonymously, you are taking a minor internal dojo conflict to a very public forum populated by a self-selected small community of interest. A word of advice from an aikiweb sempai, and this is straight up the voice of much tender experience... THE PEOPLE YOU TRAIN WITH HAVE JUST AS MUCH ACCESS TO AIKIWEB AS YOU DO. Another word of warning, people train for a huge variety of reasons and this seriously affects the way they train. It also seriously affects the way they respond to things like public posts on aikiweb. You will get a huge variety of answers for this sort of problem. They aren't attacks upon you, because we dont know your sitch, They are honest representations of how the individuals responding to you would react to the issue as far as you've described it.

A bit about myself and my training, and why I respond the way I do, just so you can see that there are lots of ways to look at this issue. I am a 48 year old fat lesbian who came to aikido in the late 80s solely for the love of a woman and stayed for the love of the dojo and the art. Hard times led me to pimp my rank out and spend the last several years working as a bouncer. I get paid jack shit to stop fights quickly and efficiently. I get paid not even beer money to stop people from doing illegal or dangerous things without escalating situations. The shit I deal with is real. Knife fights, drunk driving, gang hits, serious business. I have boxes of seized weapons at home. Sometimes I sell them on eBay. I have handed heroin rigs and pounds of coke, pot, meth, little yellow pills, everything to the sheriffs. I still groan a little handing over the weed. Wish I could sell all that on eBay. Folks get one chance to behave or they go home and yes I can and will legally choke someone's ass out and carry them to the parking lot because I want to go home to my partner and cats and dinner, not necessarily in that order. I train in aikido because it gets me home at the end of the night and it keeps me from talking to the judge too much. Someone just discussed an essay about "getting to live at home" that was some truly true stuff.

I have got to not get my back up when confronted with an asshole at work or I will have trouble. So, I practice that. Specifically. Both in my security specific training and occasionally at my dojo. You can use your situation to train yourself in exactly the same way, without anyone even knowing it. Look up "woofing." It is good but difficult practice. I have had every person who cares about me and knows me at all step right up and tell me all my shit, in front of everyone, as aggressively as they possibly can, seriously trying to push my kill button. These people know what hurts me, they know who I am, and they dont find cussing difficult at all. They even use the C word, a lot, because they've learned that if I'm gonna snap, it'll be after that. At this point, I can easily maintain my center with anyone except my partner. Makes dealing with assholes easy and fun.

Try woofing. Your reaction to your training partners is your business to handle the way you want to. Just be sure that you are choosing actions, not reacting to outside stimulus. This is good aikido training.

So, you talked to the woman directly. That's great. But what did you actually say? Were you really as unspecific as you put forth here? Did you really tenkan all over the place and say "I'm a slow learner...." and "I'm just a white belt..."? Did that get the response you wanted? Are there other options to try in further communication? Have you tried an irimi entry like "I respond very strongly and very negatively to strong language. I do this because (insert reason here). Please do not use swearing around me. And I also dont like your slapping my hand in correction, I take it as patronizing and dismissal."?

You say you've spoken with several sensei about this. Did this work out, or did it spread the problem around? You say that part of your dojo's published expectations is no cussing on the mat. Why is this not being enforced by the dojocho (the person who actually is the head of the dojo)? Is the no cussing rule soley de jure? It doesn't seem to be de facto. Dojos are often like that because people are often like that. Kinda hard to get the horse back into the barn, but consider having a sit down talk between you, your problem partner and the head of the dojo. Dont be surprised if you dont get all your expectations met. Choose your responses. Yes, you can refuse to train with someone. Yes, you can confront them directly. Yes you can find another dojo. Yes, you can quit aikido. Yes, you can give as good as you get. The reason that the safest place is under sword is that any direction you choose to move from there is not under the sword. The direction you choose will affect the response you get and will inform your future movements. This is aikido.

I think martial arts gives us a uniquely useful curriculum for learning a single principle. I can only control me. (And sometimes, I cant even control that.) Well, relationships do that, too. Hmm.
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Old 02-15-2014, 03:19 PM   #44
"Stuck"
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Re: How do you deal with.....

Quote:
Krystal Locke wrote: View Post
Give us some more to go on here. You say you are a white belt. That does not necessarily tell us much about your experience. How long have you trained? Why do you do aikido? How long has the woman you are having a problem with trained? Why does she train? Here's a big question about doing aikido. What expectations are you really carrying into your training?

There's lots of talk about second languages here. What's more important is that you both seem to be dealing with second cultures. Third, even, unless you are maybe training in Japan. What is the cultural background of the dojo you train at? What is your cultural background? What is hers? What is the gender dynamic? Age dynamic?

Lets talk about respect. You say that you think strong word choice on the mat is disrespectful to the founder. Why do you think that? Do you think that the founder (which founder? I'm assuming you're talking about Morihei Ueshiba, but I could easily be wrong.) is offended by this woman's actions? Are you carrying expectations as a white belt into your training? You think that the woman you're having a problem is disrespecting you. Why do you think that? If I pointed out that you just called her a chick, would it be unreasonable for me to think you are not respectful of her? If cussing is disrespectful bad wrong and awful, does changing the word fucking to the word trucking somehow erase the intent behind it?

You are having a problem with an individual. You have choices, you are making choices, and you are acting upon your choices. This is good self-defense, and good training. But you also have to evaluate the consequences of your choices and actions.

One action you have taken is to bring your issue to aikiweb. Even anonymously, you are taking a minor internal dojo conflict to a very public forum populated by a self-selected small community of interest. A word of advice from an aikiweb sempai, and this is straight up the voice of much tender experience... THE PEOPLE YOU TRAIN WITH HAVE JUST AS MUCH ACCESS TO AIKIWEB AS YOU DO. Another word of warning, people train for a huge variety of reasons and this seriously affects the way they train. It also seriously affects the way they respond to things like public posts on aikiweb. You will get a huge variety of answers for this sort of problem. They aren't attacks upon you, because we dont know your sitch, They are honest representations of how the individuals responding to you would react to the issue as far as you've described it.

A bit about myself and my training, and why I respond the way I do, just so you can see that there are lots of ways to look at this issue. I am a 48 year old fat lesbian who came to aikido in the late 80s solely for the love of a woman and stayed for the love of the dojo and the art. Hard times led me to pimp my rank out and spend the last several years working as a bouncer. I get paid jack shit to stop fights quickly and efficiently. I get paid not even beer money to stop people from doing illegal or dangerous things without escalating situations. The shit I deal with is real. Knife fights, drunk driving, gang hits, serious business. I have boxes of seized weapons at home. Sometimes I sell them on eBay. I have handed heroin rigs and pounds of coke, pot, meth, little yellow pills, everything to the sheriffs. I still groan a little handing over the weed. Wish I could sell all that on eBay. Folks get one chance to behave or they go home and yes I can and will legally choke someone's ass out and carry them to the parking lot because I want to go home to my partner and cats and dinner, not necessarily in that order. I train in aikido because it gets me home at the end of the night and it keeps me from talking to the judge too much. Someone just discussed an essay about "getting to live at home" that was some truly true stuff.

I have got to not get my back up when confronted with an asshole at work or I will have trouble. So, I practice that. Specifically. Both in my security specific training and occasionally at my dojo. You can use your situation to train yourself in exactly the same way, without anyone even knowing it. Look up "woofing." It is good but difficult practice. I have had every person who cares about me and knows me at all step right up and tell me all my shit, in front of everyone, as aggressively as they possibly can, seriously trying to push my kill button. These people know what hurts me, they know who I am, and they dont find cussing difficult at all. They even use the C word, a lot, because they've learned that if I'm gonna snap, it'll be after that. At this point, I can easily maintain my center with anyone except my partner. Makes dealing with assholes easy and fun.

Try woofing. Your reaction to your training partners is your business to handle the way you want to. Just be sure that you are choosing actions, not reacting to outside stimulus. This is good aikido training.

So, you talked to the woman directly. That's great. But what did you actually say? Were you really as unspecific as you put forth here? Did you really tenkan all over the place and say "I'm a slow learner...." and "I'm just a white belt..."? Did that get the response you wanted? Are there other options to try in further communication? Have you tried an irimi entry like "I respond very strongly and very negatively to strong language. I do this because (insert reason here). Please do not use swearing around me. And I also dont like your slapping my hand in correction, I take it as patronizing and dismissal."?

You say you've spoken with several sensei about this. Did this work out, or did it spread the problem around? You say that part of your dojo's published expectations is no cussing on the mat. Why is this not being enforced by the dojocho (the person who actually is the head of the dojo)? Is the no cussing rule soley de jure? It doesn't seem to be de facto. Dojos are often like that because people are often like that. Kinda hard to get the horse back into the barn, but consider having a sit down talk between you, your problem partner and the head of the dojo. Dont be surprised if you dont get all your expectations met. Choose your responses. Yes, you can refuse to train with someone. Yes, you can confront them directly. Yes you can find another dojo. Yes, you can quit aikido. Yes, you can give as good as you get. The reason that the safest place is under sword is that any direction you choose to move from there is not under the sword. The direction you choose will affect the response you get and will inform your future movements. This is aikido.

I think martial arts gives us a uniquely useful curriculum for learning a single principle. I can only control me. (And sometimes, I cant even control that.) Well, relationships do that, too. Hmm.
First of all a big thanks for the sheer amount of feedback. Although the quote you chose to display was directed at a specific person, it was david skaggs i believe, but correct me if i am wrong, i can and will chose to address the many other questions you seem to have.

How long have i trained? Since early december and i have no other MA experience.

Why do i do aikido? Many reasons, krystal. Some have been mentioned in this thread others you can just assume such as getting fit.

How long has she trained? I assume, without having asked her, that it was only a matter of a couple of months before i started. She still gets stuff wrong, footing for example, on the red belt, 8th kyu, syllabus so it cant be much more than me.

What is your cultural background? I am more cultured than most, it seems, having grown up till i was 15 in germany not speaking english. In 1985, i moved to santa cruz, california and spent the next 20 years there. Got divorced and am now living in the UK. I have been exposed to and lived in a , predominantly, mufti-cultural environment all my life. I do not know anything other than living in that environment and speak three languages with the addition of japanese since i joined aikido.

Why does she train? I never bothered to ask. Never got that far. Not really interested. I train for my own reasons and why she trains is not really a concern of mine. Should it? I suppose, now that i think about it, the reason why she trains could be to tone down her peculiar way of dealing with people. I find her abrasive and abusive in nature. But i never asked.

What expectations are you really carrying into your training? To get better at it if i put the effort in. Hardly any expectations but plenty of hopes and wishes. I would be happy if i learn or take something from each time i step on the mat. I wish to get better at the art i am beginning to love. I wish to be able to handle situations better like you do for your work.

What is the cultural background of the dojo you train at? All but three of us are brits.

What is hers? She is from lithuania.

What is the gender dynamic? Of our dojo? Predominantly male with 2-3 women showing up most nights.

Age dynamic? In the adult class most of us are post 30 with a few younger ones like the new women that show up and they seem to be in their early 20's or very late teens. It ranges from 20-50.

Lets talk about respect. lets do and the fact that i never mentioned that i found it disrespectful to myself when she was muttering stuff under her breath, let alone the slaps that she thought were playful that i did not.

You say that you think strong word choice on the mat is disrespectful to the founder. Why do you think that? To me cussing seems a total lack of of control over yourself if you have to resort to doing that and doing it in a place where we are trying to train ourselves to control ourselves. I practice yoshikan so even though i understand it is a branch of ueshiba's aikido we can still infer that he is the founder of it even though it was Gozo Shioda. I refer to morehei ueshiba as our founder though.

Are you carrying expectations as a white belt into your training? Yes, I expect to make mistakes and it is ok. My wishes and wants on the other hand are somewhat goal oriented. Meaning i wish to see myself progress.

You think that the woman you're having a problem is disrespecting you. Why do you think that? Absolutely do think that she is disrespecting me. Being hit by a stranger more or less for actions that do not conform to her standards of what is aikido is a step too far for me. Being hit is disrespectful by itself and what right does she have to do that to me? None. What is even stranger is that even after being asked not to do that she insisted on continuing with this behavior as if it was some kind of game to her. She treats her husband like this on the mat and i was wondering myself why he puts up with that and why nobody has stopped her from doing it on the mat. It is as if the sensei's do not want to get involved in a "domestic relationship" on the mat. They must have seen this behavior and are blind if they have not.

If I pointed out that you just called her a chick, would it be unreasonable for me to think you are not respectful of her? Short answer, no. However I only called her that here on the forum and not to her face. Not that this is any less of a tag just because it was said there. I got called dude all the time in cali and it did not bother me one bit. To me it is a slang term that i picked up in cali. To me it is an affectionate term but to others it could mean something else. Whether or not you find that offensive i do not know and if it was i am sorry and will try to use less colorful terms.

If cussing is disrespectful bad wrong and awful, does changing the word fucking to the word trucking somehow erase the intent behind it? Nope. However there is a difference when i directly address people with cuss words as opposed to using in a descriptive manner to describe an event.

THE PEOPLE YOU TRAIN WITH HAVE JUST AS MUCH ACCESS TO AIKIWEB AS YOU DO. With their limited english i highly doubt they would come here. It is possible, but not likely. Even if they did at this point in time come here i could care less about them knowing that i am asking about how to deal with her here. If she was concerned, which she does not seem to be, about the repercussions of her actions then she would not be hitting people in the first place. Also, i made my own sensei's aware of this thread so they are able to follow it if they wish as well as put their own info in.

My aunt is a lesbian and i love her just the same.

I have got to not get my back up when confronted with an asshole at work or I will have trouble. That is what i am aiming for but not having the capacity to think like you do yet since i am still using my reptilian brain i have much more to go it seems. Personally i think you are nuts to take your life into your own hands, so to speak, for peanuts but that is just my opinion. If you are gonna do it at least get paid for it. And i mean well. Not just beer money.

"woofing". I have looked that up prior to you mentioning it and i am aware of what it is. This could be useful. But i do not know if our dojo does any of that. Would be nice if they address the mental side of self defense. Putting the fence up, watching for the signs of impending aggression ect. This is just one part of many how aikido is helping me become a better person. I read the art of fighting without fighting by geoff thompson and found some useful bits in there.

So, you talked to the woman directly. That's great. But what did you actually say? Were you really as unspecific as you put forth here? Did you really tenkan all over the place and say "I'm a slow learner...." and "I'm just a white belt..."? Yes, i really did.

Did that get the response you wanted? I guess not. There was no response afaik or remember. But i really tried to de-escalate what i thought, correctly, was directed at me. I came here after i said that stuff happened to me.

Are there other options to try in further communication? Of course. Do i want to engage with her at this point? I am not sure. Do i remember the very sudden ramp-up in speed of the attacks and sincerity of them by her husband all of a sudden this last week? I do. What did that make me think? That is was some sort of retribution or that i am imagining things. But just this last week he went to what seems like %50 power and speed on a white belt all of a sudden when prior to these events no such power was exerted. That was not fun for me and i am not repeating that because i nearly had my arm ripped out of the socket. No thanks. Even if i am just imagining it i can train with others with less harm. I am in no rush to get injured by some revengeful husband now. Especially one who thinks i am "not man enough" as he questioned. Don't need that.

You say you've spoken with several sensei about this. Did this work out, or did it spread the problem around? Got some responses and waiting on others so i guess it spread my problem around the dojo. At least to the higher ups. Nobody low knows about this and this is the way i wanted it. Hence my anonymous appearance here.

You say that part of your dojo's published expectations is no cussing on the mat. Why is this not being enforced by the dojocho (the person who actually is the head of the dojo)? Is the no cussing rule soley de jure? Because nobody has made that person aware of it yet. But they are now or will be when they show up next. I can understand the occasional cuss word if somebody nearly ripped out your arm but i am just concerned with the cussing that is meant to put you down. When i get better and can let it just bounce off of me like you can i can deal with it better. I am not able to do that at the moment, sorry. I will strive to better myself. Seeing examples like yourself does help. We lower people really do look up at you people for examples on how to behave and how to react.

I will consider sitting down and having a chat with this person and the head of the dojo. But my trust in her and her husband has now been destroyed. It's not likely i will ever train with these two again just based on what i have felt, seen and heard from them. No amount of talking is now going to take away the fear that my arm is gonna get ripped out. I do not need them to progress and they do not need me so we can co-exist and i can even sit in seiza next to them as we are similar rank and i would have to sit next to them.

thank you
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Old 02-15-2014, 06:42 PM   #45
charyuop
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Re: How do you deal with.....

Unless I'm wrong, as far as I know, student couldn't even talk during o'sensei classes. Now, teachers were surely not nice at that era (heck I've seen o'sensei doing iriminage to a kid student and it was pretty hard). But hitting to train is one thing, hit to taunt is another.
I usually punch the ribs (light) or stop in front of the face to show nage if his position is wrong and leaves open to my attack...actually today I hit one on the lips lightly, I felt so bad :-(
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Old 02-15-2014, 08:17 PM   #46
Malicat
Dojo: Suenaka-Ha Aikido of Bloomington
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Re: How do you deal with.....

Quote:
Krystal Locke wrote: View Post
A bit about myself and my training, and why I respond the way I do, just so you can see that there are lots of ways to look at this issue. I am a 48 year old fat lesbian who came to aikido in the late 80s solely for the love of a woman and stayed for the love of the dojo and the art. Hard times led me to pimp my rank out and spend the last several years working as a bouncer. I get paid jack shit to stop fights quickly and efficiently. I get paid not even beer money to stop people from doing illegal or dangerous things without escalating situations. The shit I deal with is real. Knife fights, drunk driving, gang hits, serious business. I have boxes of seized weapons at home. Sometimes I sell them on eBay. I have handed heroin rigs and pounds of coke, pot, meth, little yellow pills, everything to the sheriffs. I still groan a little handing over the weed. Wish I could sell all that on eBay. Folks get one chance to behave or they go home and yes I can and will legally choke someone's ass out and carry them to the parking lot because I want to go home to my partner and cats and dinner, not necessarily in that order. I train in aikido because it gets me home at the end of the night and it keeps me from talking to the judge too much. Someone just discussed an essay about "getting to live at home" that was some truly true stuff.
I really really really want to visit Krystal's dojo now.
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Old 02-15-2014, 09:22 PM   #47
Janet Rosen
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Re: How do you deal with.....

Quote:
Ashley Hemsath wrote: View Post
I really really really want to visit Krystal's dojo now.
NorCal/SoOre trip in your future?

Janet Rosen
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"peace will enter when hate is gone"--percy mayfield
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Old 02-16-2014, 02:09 PM   #48
James Sawers
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Re: How do you deal with.....

Quote:
Ashley Hemsath wrote: View Post
I really really really want to visit Krystal's dojo now.
Hell, I'd like to visit her bar......!!!!
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Old 02-16-2014, 05:20 PM   #49
lbb
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Re: How do you deal with.....

At this point, it seems a bit beside the point who's at fault. Your dojo has offered you a means of resolution, that is, for the senseis to take care of it. If you are unwilling to let that process go forward and to abide by the results, how do you intend to continue at this dojo? As anarchistic as things may seem to be, I think you'll find that you can't simply make up your own rules about who you will and will not train with, how you'll train, etc. (particularly if you refuse the solution that is offered to you). So where will that leave you?
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Old 02-16-2014, 07:17 PM   #50
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Re: How do you deal with.....

Quote:
Mary Malmros wrote: View Post
At this point, it seems a bit beside the point who's at fault. Your dojo has offered you a means of resolution, that is, for the senseis to take care of it. If you are unwilling to let that process go forward and to abide by the results, how do you intend to continue at this dojo? As anarchistic as things may seem to be, I think you'll find that you can't simply make up your own rules about who you will and will not train with, how you'll train, etc. (particularly if you refuse the solution that is offered to you). So where will that leave you?
My sensei's have offered a solution to the verbal stuff, not the actual physical striking which could easily be assault on the outside if you think about it. I have yet to mention the physical stuff as i was at one of our other dojo's for fridays lesson and i have to wait till monday to do that.

At least read the thread in its entirety if you are going to comment please. You are quoting a solution that was given prior to fridays event and is no longer applicable as we are on another level now that physical striking has been introduced. I appreciate you trying to help but the game has changed since you read the solution you think i need to follow.

Mary, lets just say that you got something wrong on the mat and I start slapping you. Every time you get something wrong i am gonna say you suck, you should give this crap up as you are friggen worthless.

This will get on your nerves and you will do something about it. There is no question about it. You are human and will defend yourself one day even if that day is twenty years, or even fifty years, from now. No human has that much control over themselves. You will crack eventually no matter how strong you think you are. You are no saint. You are not jesus, buddha or some other deity. Be realistic.

Now, why should you put up with all those years of me doing that to you?

If this continues the dojo is also opening themselves up to legal repercussions if this women is not dealt with as it is pretty close to harassment as it is. It is persistent even if she does not know what she is doing. The fact that she has been allowed to get away with it for so long is worrying. And she does not seem to want to back down when confronted about her behavior.

Yeah, i have a choice to continue going there or not but at this point it will solely rely on whether i am made to train with these two or not. Nobody can force me to "work" with anybody and if so then i will take my choice to walk and go someplace else.

Concessions are made for muslims who refuse to bow to the shomen so why none me? We are non-profit by the way so its not that simple.

I no longer trust those two to treat me in a safe manner on the mat. It's that simple. Nobody else is going to watch out for my welfare while on the mat. It's up for me. It's my job to prevent injury to myself and not yours.

I think this thread has gone as far as it can here so thanks to you all.
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