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Old 02-13-2014, 11:55 AM   #51
lbb
Location: Massachusetts
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 2,816
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Re: How to deal with irritating partner?

Quote:
Long Trinh wrote: View Post
The youngest of us is 18 and the vast majority are within 23-40. The people involved and myself, we are all grad students. I don't have time for a full detailed answer right now, and I'm not even sure if "the rest" is of any importance. But I'll just say that things like this are not uncommon in the dojo. It simply took me a while to see that something is really wrong here.
That sounds like it's pretty messed up, then. I'd be moving on.

This is probably completely unrelated...but at your new dojo (assuming you move on to a new place), before referring to an adult female human being as a "girl", you might ask yourself if it would feel appropriate to call an adult male human being of the same age a "boy". Context is everything, of course, but calling a woman "girl" can come across as dismissive or disparaging even if that's not your intent.
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Old 02-13-2014, 05:14 PM   #52
Dalaran1991
Location: Paris
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 62
France
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Re: How to deal with irritating partner?

Quote:
Mary Malmros wrote: View Post
That sounds like it's pretty messed up, then. I'd be moving on.

This is probably completely unrelated...but at your new dojo (assuming you move on to a new place), before referring to an adult female human being as a "girl", you might ask yourself if it would feel appropriate to call an adult male human being of the same age a "boy". Context is everything, of course, but calling a woman "girl" can come across as dismissive or disparaging even if that's not your intent.
Yeah I'm moving on, before these bad behaviors start getting into me. Not just that but people were sleeping with each other left and right, and the drama which ensued is too distracting for training. Hopefully being at a new dojo where I know no one will help me to reachieve my balance with the art.

Funny, here in Paris people call each other girls and boys even up to their 40s Though even back in US I refer to women in their 20s as girls all the time, and they either call us boys or guys. I've never heard anyone referred to me or my buddies "this man" @@
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Old 02-13-2014, 06:25 PM   #53
Riai Maori
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 91
New Zealand-Maori
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Re: How to deal with irritating partner?

Mate your not alone...First Kyu Shihan…7+years…

We have a female student (6 foot) who has been a first Kyu for the past 7 years and more. I have sat beside her on the mat and listened to her criticize and run down whoever is doing Randori. Training with her is a lecture on technique and NO it’s not done like that. At the moment I bite my bottom lip, out of due respect and her seniority within the club. I avoid her like the plague on the mat, but unfortunately sometimes this is not possible. I want to tell her…maybe you should focus more on yourself because that’s why you are stuck on first Kyu…shut up and train…how about reporting early for training to help set up the dojo mats cause you live the closest and I drive 45 minutes to the dojo, then set up the mats…The list goes on.

I don’t want to approach Sensei as he’s probably had the same story from someone else.

Last edited by Riai Maori : 02-13-2014 at 06:27 PM. Reason: spelling mistake

There is always 3 sides to a story, their side, your side and the TRUTH
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Old 03-07-2014, 12:01 PM   #54
Edgecrusher
 
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Dojo: Tampa, FL
Location: Tampa, Florida
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Re: How to deal with irritating partner?

Sometimes I find it hard to make the determination of what I need to do while working with someone who is considered "Irritating". Do I approach them privately and request that they take a break or do I resort to teaching the hard way? Case in point, a student who sometimes frequents our school while he is in town on business, drives me insane. Repeats everything that our Shihan says and really annoys me. I do my best to avoid him but, when I am squared off I do my best to work with and help with the techniques. One of the moves my Shihan taught was somewhat new and when he asked us to partner up, he mentioned take it slow, no speed. Since I am higher ranked I chose to go the slow speed route and do it correctly. This cat chose to damn near take my arm off and inflicted a lot of pain. After asking him several times to slow it down and not break my arm, he chose to continue at the speed he was not used to going. Well, when it was my turn I quickly took my advantage and he then learned how I achieved ikkyu. I got him in an arm-bar and kicked my feet out and down to the mat we went. since he was a couple of ranks below me I knew where he was with his ukemi and knew he could handle the fall. Everyone in the dojo saw it happen and when he tapped out, I saw many jaws on the floor when I released it and stood up. My Shihan said nothing and we discussed it after class. This is not something I normally condone however, in some instances it may be the right way. That judgement should be relied on by the other persons ability. If this man could not have handled the take down, it never would have happened as I would have walked off the mat.
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Old 03-20-2014, 06:53 AM   #55
Dalaran1991
Location: Paris
Join Date: Nov 2012
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France
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Re: How to deal with irritating partner?

Actually I'm starting to think this is a problem with ego and immaturity.

There was this beginner girl (20 y o) who has only done Aiki in 3 months, though she did taekwondo before. My friend 1st kyu trained with her, and he forgot his hakama. The girl started lecturing him on how his stance is bad and how she could have kicked him with her taekwondo stuff. He just rolled his eyes, smirking. I couldn't resist "Bro, where's your hakama?" The girl's frozen on the spot.
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Old 03-20-2014, 07:50 AM   #56
lbb
Location: Massachusetts
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Re: How to deal with irritating partner?

Maybe you should be looking at what's the common element in all these stories. Let me know what conclusions you come to.
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Old 03-20-2014, 03:34 PM   #57
Phil Van Treese
Dojo: Tampa Judo and Aikido Dojo, Tampa, Fl
Location: Tampa, Florida
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Re: How to deal with irritating partner?

The easiest way is to tell the irritating person that you don't appreciate his/her comments, keep them to his/herself and if they don't like that, explain that the doors work both ways, coming in and going out. Doesn't matter what rank they are---wrong is wrong. 1 person shouldn't disrupt the class but if there is one,or more, that do disrupt the class, then the sensei should have enough **** to ask them to either cool their jets or hit the road. I've had this problem a few times and I think they're still smarting from our "discussion". If you want, talk to the sensei by himself/herself and explain the situation and that should be the end of it.
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Old 03-24-2014, 05:00 PM   #58
mboogie
Join Date: Nov 2011
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Re: How to deal with irritating partner?

I also have challenging ukes. Very long, very short, inflexible, stiff, grumpy, semi aggresive... and also the overly verbal one's.

I don't evade them because I think they can help me overcome my own limitations.

I have had a seriously irritating and scary uke one time. A new guy with ADHD (he said) and piercing eyes constantly telling everybody scary stuff about him training special forces in the military and doing very whacky things... (why?) I actualy think he has another mental problem. After a couple of weeks I noticed I didn't feel happy going to aikido practice because of him. And I also learned I wasn't alone. Then, I trained with him one time and he took of again with one of his penetrating speeches... and I had it... Calmly I said I wasn't interrested in his stories, didn't like it and just want to train the techniques. Then I asked him (rather nicely) if we can we do that? still willingly to train with him.

He backed down and seemed rather stressed about my remark. He didn't want to train with me anymore, which was ok with me. That was the last time I trained with him because the next week or so he didn't show up anymore. I don't know the reason why he stopped but I can't imagine that it was because of my remark.

I think giving him assertive feedback on his behaviour was the best thing I could do.

Last edited by mboogie : 03-24-2014 at 05:04 PM.
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Old 11-08-2014, 05:11 PM   #59
bogglefreak20
Dojo: Ki dojo
Location: Ljubljana
Join Date: Oct 2002
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Slovenia
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Re: How to deal with irritating partner?

Quote:
Peter A Goldsbury wrote: View Post
The sex/gender issue is a red herring, in my opinion. Precisely the same issue can arise if all the parties are male.
Indeed! I have the same issue after recently recommencing my training after a couple of years off. When I first started training about 10 years ago the dojo etiquette with regard to no-talking-on-tatami policy was much more observed. A couple of words from senior aikidoka to beginners here and there were OK, but other than that everybody focused on practice, rather than talking and correcting colleagues. Explanations and corrections were reserved for sensei.

Personally I held my comments until either someone asked me my opinion or if someone was making a potentially harmful mistake with his technique (e.g. risking some joint injuries or something like that). And even when someone asked for my opinion, I preferred to just encourage them to train with patience and figure it out unless they insisted.

However, during these couple of years of my absence the climate seems to have changed. I see a lot of people discussing their movement rather than practising the techniques. And one guy in particular seems very keen on dispensing his knowledge or lack thereof on others, mostly the people he considers his junior by experience. He's extremely confident about his knowledge and even skips his role as nage saying he "already knows this one". I don't know how long he's been training or what grade he holds. To me it doesn't matter, it never did. I haven't seen this kind of attitude from anyone else so far, even from senior aikidoka who really do know their stuff (you know, the ones you kind of enjoy being thrown all over the place by, because the movement is so flowing and unpretentious).

Anyway, I'll try and speak my mind politely to him. I'd like him to know I prefer to learn by practice rather than by explanation. I need to feel in order to learn. Words are not enough.
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Old 11-09-2014, 07:24 AM   #60
Mark Mueller
Location: Louisville Kentucky
Join Date: Feb 2004
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Re: How to deal with irritating partner?

Quote:
Michael Jongkamp wrote: View Post
I think giving him assertive feedback on his behaviour was the best thing I could do.
Excellent Verbal Irimi-nage...
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Old 11-13-2014, 11:00 AM   #61
tlk52
Dojo: Aikido of Park Slope/NY Aikikai
Location: NYC
Join Date: Dec 2005
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Re: How to deal with irritating partner?

"Now I just wonder, have you encountered something like this personally?"

oh, many many times.

but it's a complex issue as to when it's appropriate for the instructor to step into dojo conflicts. a large strong person beating up a weak person, or someone really physically endangering others regularly, is obvious but just being annoying....is a different thing.

I read that when 2nd Doshu K. Ueshiba was asked why he let some of the conflicts on the mat go on without stepping in he replied something to the effect that some people need enemies.

the mat is a microcosm of the rest of life

Last edited by tlk52 : 11-13-2014 at 11:04 AM.
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Old 11-16-2014, 11:06 PM   #62
kewms
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 994
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Re: How to deal with irritating partner?

Quote:
Toby Kasavan wrote: View Post
but it's a complex issue as to when it's appropriate for the instructor to step into dojo conflicts. a large strong person beating up a weak person, or someone really physically endangering others regularly, is obvious but just being annoying....is a different thing.
This is true. These are adult students, not children, and adults are supposed to be able to handle interpersonal conflict. Or if they can't, martial arts are supposed to help them learn.

There are also ways in which an instructor can intervene without seeming to do so. Simply asking the entire class to change partners, for instance. Or having the offending partner attempt the technique with the instructor, thereby demonstrating that no, his technique isn't actually as good as he thinks it is. Or partnering the offender with one of the senior students for an extended period, with the same result. In my experience it would be fairly rare for an instructor to overtly "lay down the law" unless there were a safety issue.

Katherine
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Old 11-21-2014, 09:46 PM   #63
lifestylemanoz
Dojo: Aikido Kobukai
Location: Perth
Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 25
Australia
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Re: How to deal with irritating partner?

I think everyone is in agreement that this is poor form and not tolerated in most dojos. And what a great opportunity to learn about one's own patience. Moreover, what a great challenge to turn around the situation. If I draw on Sales training, you would use reflective listening. In other words, repeat back verbatim, what she/he has just said. This will at least validate them. Perhaps take this one step further and ask for more detail to test whether they are confident in their assessment. This may kill the problem quickly.

It is entirely possible that you are paying the price for some other baggage they are carrying around or perhaps they see you as a threat. That thought begs the question, is it only you or does this happen to other people?

And, just to reassure you, this HAS happened to me on a number of occasions and quite often the person is WAAAAY off the mark in terms of what we were doing.

Hope your situation improves...

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