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Old 02-18-2013, 09:48 PM   #26
Malicat
Dojo: Suenaka-Ha Aikido of Bloomington
Location: Bloomington, Indiana
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Re: depression, has practicing Aikido helped in any way?

Quote:
Mary Malmros wrote: View Post
There's being open, then there's egregious TMI violations. There's need to know, and there's getting in someone's business. It's important to know the difference.

What's magical about the word "medication" anyway? We need to tell our instructors about everything we take that's called "medication", but don't need to tell them about anything else? That doesn't make any sense. Alcohol isn't called a "medication", but it has an effect that's much more relevant to training than aspirin, which IS a "medication". You can choose to follow a rule that you've made up based on a label, or you can use common sense. Your choice.
I feel the need to be open about my need to go out for a beer occasionally after Aikido class... generally with the instructor as well as the other students. This seems like a good way to let him know about my alcohol use!

Seriously though, Mary and Janet are absolutely correct and said everything that needs to be said.

--Ashley
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Old 02-18-2013, 11:28 PM   #27
Michael Hackett
Dojo: Kenshinkan Dojo (Aikido of North County) Vista, CA
Location: Oceanside, California
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Re: depression, has practicing Aikido helped in any way?

Graham, I don't know the side effects of any medication that I haven't taken, given to my children or witnessed another family member taking. I relied on Janet's opinion, knowing that she is a licensed and experienced RN in California, had to have extensive training, underwent demanding testing and continues to be required to undergo continuing education courses to maintain her licensure. The opinion of a qualified and experienced medical professional carries far more weight with me on this subject than the opinion of a layman. I would give more weight to your opinion relating to any field in which you are an expert as well.

Michael
"Leave the gun. Bring the cannoli."
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Old 02-19-2013, 07:10 AM   #28
soupdragon1973
Dojo: Hallam Aikido, Sheffield
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Re: depression, has practicing Aikido helped in any way?

sorry I didnt mean to start a thread war. I asked here first to get some input. Yes I agree I should tell my instructor if said medication was making me drowsy or slow but if that was the case I wouldnt even be bothering to turn up at dojo. As it is my medication doesnt make me drowsy at all during my time at dojo and as I mentioned earlier my focus is fine, just as it would be normally.

The reason I also asked as the first place I went to (not an Aikido dojo) emphasized me coming off medication altogether. Was that wise to encourage any student to do that? And why,why did it matter so much to that instuctor or particular dojo? The only reason I paid any attention to this instructor was the fact he also told me he was an A+E nurse. In retrospect I think what he said was reckless and ill-informed and that pressure should not have been put on me in first place. But as I said, that dojo was not an Aikido dojo.
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Old 02-19-2013, 07:55 AM   #29
lbb
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Re: depression, has practicing Aikido helped in any way?

Quote:
Alex Mitchell wrote: View Post
The reason I also asked as the first place I went to (not an Aikido dojo) emphasized me coming off medication altogether. Was that wise to encourage any student to do that? And why,why did it matter so much to that instuctor or particular dojo? The only reason I paid any attention to this instructor was the fact he also told me he was an A+E nurse. In retrospect I think what he said was reckless and ill-informed and that pressure should not have been put on me in first place. But as I said, that dojo was not an Aikido dojo.
This is a bit of a blind guess, but here in the US, many martial arts schools promote their teachings as not only promoting fitness and enabling you to protect yourself from Crack-Crazed Urban Street Scum(tm,), but also as a comprehensive self-help program that reduces stress and improves mental focus and promotes self-control and yahda yahda yahda. It's all a large steaming pile of manure, but the public is uninformed and many are gullible as well, and so it succeeds in pulling in students. As part of this whole self-help claptrap, some schools get in their students' business to some degree, particularly in kids' programs - for example, requiring kids to bring in their report card. One wonders exactly what they'll do if the kids' grades are unsatisfactory. People who are tired or lazy or overwhelmed or at a loss as to how to make things better in their lives (or their kids'), are ready to hand it over to someone else. Never mind that common sense says you gotta do it yourself. This "encouraging students to get off medication" may be of a piece with that, or it may just be some individual quirk of the instructor, who knows? I suppose it doesn't really matter why. It's silly and inappropriate.
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Old 02-19-2013, 08:52 AM   #30
soupdragon1973
Dojo: Hallam Aikido, Sheffield
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Re: depression, has practicing Aikido helped in any way?

Thanks Mary. Yes indeed, said dojo was what has been described to me as "belt factory", called itself a "black belt academy". Overpriced contracts, multiple belts at considerable cost etc. I was gullible yes, I took it up as they were handing out leaflets near a supermarket, I got a call from them a few weeks later and I went for my 'free lesson' because I thought doing martial arts would help me with my stress levels. It didnt. Not at said dojo anyways. I feel I was sold martial arts as a way to deal with so much. Gullible suckers like myself get sucked in. Thankfully I got out after 4 months having realised after a month or two that I was being ripped off. Yes, the encouragement to come off medication was rash. I came off my anti-depressants quickly to find I had insomnia and awful mood swings. After 2 weeks I went back on them and my feeling was "its none of their business anymore" especially as there was no follow up to see if I was doing well or ok mentally without my anti-depressants.

I believe the word is "Mcdojo". Yes we have them in UK also. Martial arts as business first and foremost. I got out of there after Christmas(would have left earlier but was paying 100 a month) and havent looked back. The belts I paid 40 each for are worthless and should be thrown away. I came to Aikido with a fresh mindset to begin and learn a-new.
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Old 02-19-2013, 09:30 AM   #31
graham christian
Dojo: golden center aikido-highgate
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Re: depression, has practicing Aikido helped in any way?

I never cease to be amazed. Common sense indeed.

Alex, I see you have agreed already to tell your instructor. Nice to hear. Well done.

The fact that you took the advice of your past one is interesting. He was also a person with pieces of paper ie: qualifications. Sounds like also medically trained. Yet his advice was not so good. Just goes to show that if you assume because someones got the label that they are to be followed blindly then the results can be not as expected.

Peoples awareness of side effects of drugs, (yes, drugs for those above who misunderstand my use of the word medication) is unfortunately very low thus they just trust what they are told.

In this day and age especially it is common sense for any instructor to be aware of the effects of medical and any other drugs and also may I add the effects during training, the little flags to watch out for.

Otherwise you get such views as 'you just gotta get off them' or at the other extreme 'Don't worry it won't affect anything'.

Common sense says be aware of the potential difficulties and manage them. That's common sense.

You are aware already of symptoms of your particular condition and also aware of when it feels like they are being triggered or 'coming on' no? Well if any part of the training triggers such it is obvious that the instructor should be made aware of the fact or else he will assume something else and make it worse.

When it comes to drugs it is not a matter of 'no inhibiting or detrimental side effects' it is a matter of finding out what they are, when they are and what to do when they are.

Keeping it real. Way to go.

Peace.G.
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Old 02-19-2013, 09:41 AM   #32
soupdragon1973
Dojo: Hallam Aikido, Sheffield
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Re: depression, has practicing Aikido helped in any way?

I should hasten to add, said Mcdojo did encourage me to give up my 25 a day smoking habit, so it wasnt all bad. I then took up swimming and then moved onto jogging, I did a 6 mile run yesterday for the first time. So not all bad advice from them.
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Old 02-19-2013, 09:58 AM   #33
soupdragon1973
Dojo: Hallam Aikido, Sheffield
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Re: depression, has practicing Aikido helped in any way?

Graham; aware of my symptoms of my condition? You mean the medication I take or my depression or both? Yes I am, very aware. If anything I am somebody with a sensitivity to all drugs and medications and not overly keen on taking them anyways.

This current one I take, I have not had too bad side effects with and they have more or less dissapeared now altogether. Others anti-depressants I have had bad reactions too and stopped taking within a few days of useage. I take a low dose of this anti-depressant before I go to bed. I did find it made me drowsy or sluggish at one time during the first month but that has long since worn off. If I felt sluggish like I did there would be no way I would go to any dojo let alone Aikido. I do hope as we move into spring and then summer it might be time to wean myself off the medication albiet slowly this time and not rushed.

Regarding my depression, I actually find it very useful to go to Aikido for the focus it gives my mind if I am feeling depressed. I soon stop dwelling on negative feelings and focus instead on what I need to be doing in the dojo. Hence I said earlier that any kind of focused activity could be short-term beneficial to depression. Just wondered if it had helped anyone else. It could easily be knitting, baking a cake or making an Airfix model (thats one of those plastic scale model kits that you glue together and then paint to those of you not in UK)
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Old 02-19-2013, 10:33 AM   #34
graham christian
Dojo: golden center aikido-highgate
Location: london
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Re: depression, has practicing Aikido helped in any way?

Yes Alex, sounds great. Sounds like you are indeed managing it well. I find myself admiring your progress..well done indeed.

As you so rightly put it 'gradually weaning yourself off of them' way to go!

Glad to see you find Aikido helps too in that process for I know it does. The concentration, the focus, excellent.

So yes I have heard of many times Aikido has helped with others doing similar to you now, I have also witnessed it.

I remember also only last year reading about or hearing about, can't remember which one, someone who suffered deep states of depression and suddenly had an idea. The idea was what could they do when in that state. They decided they would paint. They would use it, utilize it and found that was great therapy.

Now the reason that particular story stuck with me is because a great friend of mine did the same and that was not only her therapy but her eventual cure.

My friend who does Aikido was actually invited to show and demonstrate the benefits of using Aikido principles to help people with depression and various other 'mental ailments' quite recently.

So believe it or not practicing 'one point' helps all those conditions. Now take that into life and we have what you have have already discovered for yourself....focusing on one activity which you enjoy helps immensely.

Peace.G.
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Old 02-19-2013, 10:41 AM   #35
sakumeikan
Dojo: Sakumeikan N.E. Aikkai .Newcastle upon Tyne.
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Re: depression, has practicing Aikido helped in any way?

Quote:
Alex Mitchell wrote: View Post
I should hasten to add, said Mcdojo did encourage me to give up my 25 a day smoking habit, so it wasnt all bad. I then took up swimming and then moved onto jogging, I did a 6 mile run yesterday for the first time. So not all bad advice from them.
Dear Alex,
For the princely sum of 400.00 I will willingly give you advice on any subject you care to mention.i think the place you went to saw you coming. You must have more money than common sense. Cheers, Joe.
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Old 02-19-2013, 11:02 AM   #36
lbb
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Re: depression, has practicing Aikido helped in any way?

I always wonder about the term "wean one self off" something. Weaning is, of course, the process by which a young animal ceases being dependent on its mother's milk and moves to an adult diet. Infancy is a developmental stage; weaning is a normal transition that is part of leaving the developmental stage of infancy behind. A medical condition is not a developmental stage. It may resolve itself at some point, or it may be with you always in some form. In either case, it's here now, and you need to live with it and manage it. Antidepressants may not always be necessary for that, but if you want to use the flawed analogy of "weaning" yourself off them, please remember that an infant is only weaned when it is able to accept a different diet and live a healthy and functional life.
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Old 02-19-2013, 12:34 PM   #37
Janet Rosen
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Re: depression, has practicing Aikido helped in any way?

Mary, very good post.
From a physiological point of view there are a few classes of meds that require a planned taper to come off of (two classes that come to mind are corticosteroids like prednisone, because the adrenal glands shut down production while on large doses and need time to respond to incremental decreases by slowly ramping up output, and opiates, which create physical dependence over longterm use and are most safely and comfortably stopped by taper - here talking not of addiction but simple physical dependence).
Most meds, yep, you take them or you don't. Sometimes a decreased dosage may provide therapeutic response, but just taking a subtherapeutic dose is a waste of money and leaves one open to risks of side effects without garnering a benefit.

Janet Rosen
http://www.zanshinart.com
"peace will enter when hate is gone"--percy mayfield
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Old 02-19-2013, 01:50 PM   #38
soupdragon1973
Dojo: Hallam Aikido, Sheffield
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Re: depression, has practicing Aikido helped in any way?

ok Mary, sorry I should have said taper. I used the word wean as that was all I could think of
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Old 02-19-2013, 01:58 PM   #39
soupdragon1973
Dojo: Hallam Aikido, Sheffield
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Re: depression, has practicing Aikido helped in any way?

ok Mary, sorry I should have said taper instead. I used the word wean as that was all I could think of.

Janet, if I was to come off anti-depressants quickly and abruptly it would result in a rebound effect such as insomnia and mood swings. I know as I did it last year.

Joe, no I dont have much money but dont understand the insult but thanks anyways. There are people there who stayed on to do a 'leadership' programme which cost 4000 quid over 3 years. I got out of there as fast I could do after quickly realising I had been conned. I didnt know diddly squat about martial arts, probably like most people who join these kind of places, so therefore it was easy for them to sell me what they offer at a vastly overpriced sum. There are and were many members there,kids and adults alike who were on their 'leadership' bullshit. I am just glad I am away from them now, it was a costly mistake but thats all it was.
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Old 02-19-2013, 02:13 PM   #40
soupdragon1973
Dojo: Hallam Aikido, Sheffield
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Re: depression, has practicing Aikido helped in any way?

further to add, I have been on these a year now. Its time to come off them, Aikido or no Aikido. I dont want to become dependent upon them. My question was this; is it against dojo ethics to train while using a legal drug/medication such as an anti-depressant. I think its safe to say it is ok, so long as said medication isnt affecting my concentration, focus or physical well being in a negative way. Thanks for all your input. I dont feel welcome here, some people are genuinelt kind and some are just downright rude. I guess Aikido doesnt teach social tact haha! Peace
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Old 02-19-2013, 05:03 PM   #41
Michael Hackett
Dojo: Kenshinkan Dojo (Aikido of North County) Vista, CA
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Re: depression, has practicing Aikido helped in any way?

Alex, you received the answers to your original question in the first couple of replies concerning the ethics of training while medicated. Aikido teaches only aikido and doesn't substitute for any other social convention. Ignore those who offend you and interact with those you find helpful. Both kinds can be found on AikiWeb - "The pleasure is worth the pain." to quote Jimmy Buffet.

Michael
"Leave the gun. Bring the cannoli."
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Old 02-19-2013, 05:28 PM   #42
sakumeikan
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Re: depression, has practicing Aikido helped in any way?

Quote:
Alex Mitchell wrote: View Post
ok Mary, sorry I should have said taper instead. I used the word wean as that was all I could think of.

Janet, if I was to come off anti-depressants quickly and abruptly it would result in a rebound effect such as insomnia and mood swings. I know as I did it last year.

Joe, no I dont have much money but dont understand the insult but thanks anyways. There are people there who stayed on to do a 'leadership' programme which cost 4000 quid over 3 years. I got out of there as fast I could do after quickly realising I had been conned. I didnt know diddly squat about martial arts, probably like most people who join these kind of places, so therefore it was easy for them to sell me what they offer at a vastly overpriced sum. There are and were many members there,kids and adults alike who were on their 'leadership' bullshit. I am just glad I am away from them now, it was a costly mistake but thats all it was.
Dear Alex,
No insult was meant .What I was suggesting is that you were taken by the dojo you joined.You did finally realise the place was mugging you. it happens not just to you , we all get caught by somebody and when this happens , the common phrase is, Huh, you must have had more cash than sense.
It pays you to do research on anything to ensure you do not get taken for a mug.Would you buy a car/washing machine without checking the make or how reliable the item is?I think not, so tell me,
why do people such as you and the guys who paid 4000 quid for crap certificates. get fleeced?For 4 grand I might be able to get you a seat in the House of Commons.Just cross my palm with dosh and I will check with Mr Clegg/Cameron.Mind you if I do not succeed, no monies refunded.Cheers, Joe.
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Old 02-20-2013, 12:01 AM   #43
Janet Rosen
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Re: depression, has practicing Aikido helped in any way?

Quote:
Alex Mitchell wrote: View Post
further to add, I have been on these a year now. Its time to come off them, Aikido or no Aikido. I dont want to become dependent upon them. My question was this; is it against dojo ethics to train while using a legal drug/medication such as an anti-depressant. I think its safe to say it is ok, so long as said medication isnt affecting my concentration, focus or physical well being in a negative way. Thanks for all your input. I dont feel welcome here, some people are genuinelt kind and some are just downright rude. I guess Aikido doesnt teach social tact haha! Peace
Alex, I certainly hope you didn't find my posts rude. I was not criticizing your desire or need to do a taper; I was providing context that I thought might be helpful not necesarily to you but to others participating in this thread. This is an internet forum; there will be some thread drift and differences of opinion but frankly I never found anybody's tone on this thread objectionable. Maybe everybody isnt' all touchy feely sweetness and light but that's not who everybody is. As in life, we are here, all of us warts and all, doing the best we can.

Janet Rosen
http://www.zanshinart.com
"peace will enter when hate is gone"--percy mayfield
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Old 02-20-2013, 01:10 AM   #44
sakumeikan
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Re: depression, has practicing Aikido helped in any way?

Dear Alex,
If by chance you found my comments a bit rude /hurtful I apologise.If i were not interested or had little concern for you and your issues I would not take time and effort to post on this Forum. As a parent I know at first hand how badly depression can affect people. Changes in mood, warped irrational behaviour/thinking etc all can come into force.It would appear to me that if you are a type of person who is inclined towards depressive states you have one hell of a battle to maintain /balance your life.Depression can make you commit suicide, ruin your relationships , ruin you career and you have to learn to live with it. Its almost akin to an alcoholic, drug user or anybody with an addiction.So dear Alex, do not think I am being rude or making any comments to upset you .As I sted earlier I admire your courage in addressing your issues. Take care , Joe.
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Old 01-13-2014, 03:40 PM   #45
john2054
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Re: depression, has practicing Aikido helped in any way?

Hi Alex, how are you doing now? Are you still with us? Me i have also had battles with mental illness, this time paranoid schizophrenia, so i also know the nuisance taking a regular typical/atypical psytropical dose can have on you. But stick with it. Try to socialise with new people, go to aikido class if you feel up to it? And how about further education? All of these are very positive ways of looking forwards instead of back, okay? John
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