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Old 12-13-2013, 04:53 PM   #26
Krystal Locke
Location: Phoenix, Oregon
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Re: Belts sticking out

Story on one of my dojomates, who I love dearly. This woman has been doing aikido forevor with some of the big guns and is actually quite good, even her offspring has a nidan. Probably came out that way.

Anyway, she got her shodan a few days before her um, second 30th (60th actually) b'day. Our sensei got her a beautiful belt with the Osensei aikido kanji that is typical for our school's obi, not to mention very typical for the several wall hangings we have on the shomen and elsewhere that all say aikido...



in beautiful bright red embroidery. I commented on the nice color, and she thanked me and said "Yeah, now I just wish I knew what it said....." Oh, dear. Oh, I love my aikido family. I asked if she saw any kanji just like it anywhere else in the dojo, maybe she could parse it out that way.....

Last edited by Krystal Locke : 12-13-2013 at 04:54 PM. Reason: Stupid img link
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Old 12-13-2013, 05:19 PM   #27
Rupert Atkinson
 
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Re: Belts sticking out

Quote:
Peter Rehse wrote: View Post
Rupert - the really good Ninja are invisible.

Except for the pink suited lady ninjas at the Iga Ninja museum and that's because they want to be seen.
Correct!

And I too have been to that museum. Kinda funny huh?

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Old 12-15-2013, 12:26 AM   #28
SteliosPapadakis
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Re: Belts sticking out

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Cliff Judge wrote: View Post
It is not my belt sticking out of my hakama that I worry about.
Absolute Respect!
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Old 12-15-2013, 05:36 PM   #29
Stephen Nichol
Dojo: Aikilife, Canberra
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Re: Belts sticking out

Quote:
Robin Johnson wrote: View Post
@Stephen Nichol - Not offended. Still. I don't see that it matters.

My black belt has gold Japanese characters indicating my name and Aikido on it - so maybe it looks like I'm "displaying" rank. If so, my apologies - certainly not intended. In our organization, only black belts wear hakamas and there is no "stripes", new belt or indicator given for additional dan grade/ranks. So no one can "display" their rank as such. And we know each other's ranks anyway... It's not like its a secret or something. I'm just a shodan in a dojo with six yondans and a collection of skilled sandans and nidans. I'm in no danger of tromping around in my getup with a superiority complex and I'm not afraid to look incompetent in front of anyone (which is a good thing given my proclivity to do so).

I don't care about patches or other symbols that folks rate as pretension. People should be able to wear whatever they wish. For my book, people can wear whatever the hell they want as long as they are decent and kind. I don't care about ragged gis or hakamas - although I prefer ones in good condition for myself.

Of course, to my wife's great annoyance, I don't care about clothing, other than comfort, much at all.

I do wear my dojo T-shirts around town (for advertising purposes). People will often ask me what Aikido is - and so I get to explain and sometimes "sell" Aikido (adult/kids) to them. I guess some folks would see that as pretentious.

Robin
@ Robin Johnson,

No apologies required whatsoever about anything. I completely understand. I am very similar to you with your feelings about the topic at hand. Once again this about 'everything in context' which was part of the original post.

Key point is context. I missed this in my first post.

It is very common for the Dojo/Sensei to have a belt prepared with embroidery of a person's name and the art on it for when they take/pass their Shodan test. Much like a gift in recognition of that student's effort etc. I completely understand that. It is just not my 'thing'. I would accept a belt like that and put it away and wear a plain one and perhaps only pull out ones with embroidery on it for ceremonial purposes but like I said before.. I tie mine in a way that you would not be able to read anything on it anyway.

Although the original post did not branch onto badges and worn out training Gi and Hakama this thread has.

Badges: Display accomplishments. People trying to improve themselves and getting recognition for it and their accomplishments.

My thoughts are that cubs/brownies scouts/guides have badges for accomplishing things and wear them to show others that they have.. this is part of that culture... I do not find it conducive to a 'non sport' martial practice (Aikido). Sport martial arts and people/personalities who find themselves driven in that way it is suits them and sport they play and continue to help grow. I have nothing against that.

Worn out training Gi and Hakamas: This was talked about in another thread elsewhere on the website:

Essentially you have those that cannot afford to own several training Gi and so they wear out the few they have faster. I personally find the washing machine does the job of fraying the collar behind the neck area out more that any training I do. Perhaps a lower speed on the spin cycle would reduce this somewhat. So I feel there is an acceptable level of 'wear and tear' for a training Gi. I would not train in best t-shirt and sweat pants either...

Those that do not care (give no thought regarding it as it is unimportant to them as individuals) about the condition of their training gear. This could be a tell tale aspect about them as a person and all sorts of things.

Those that believe the 'thrashed look' means you are perceived as being 'awesome' and must be good because your gear is all worn out.

Someone used the term 'reverse vanity' (I really like that term by the way) for those that let their gear get worn out and hold on to it like some sort of 'badge of honor' or whatever they feel it means to them.

However whenever I look around at senior 'Aikido' practitioners or teachers and they all for the most part dress neatly and keep their appearance clean and tidy. (All the dojo-cho's in our association, our association head, and his teacher Saito Sensei, never wear worn out thrashed training gear and never have their belts flopping outside their hakama's. However, some of the students in the association have the worn out gear for various reasons and wear their belts however they do for whatever reasons they have. These are merely my observations and experiences.

Names on uniform come in handy so new people can remember your name or especially at seminars where people may not know or remember everyone who shows up from all over the place to attend.

This is all very different in context to someone who trains an 'art' that is 'martial' for the betterment of themselves and removal of the egoistic self yet somehow has a belt or training Gi that is essentially a walking billboard or statement of 'My name, my rank, my school, in both Japanese and English'.

In the end to each their own. I want to be clear that I do not judge others by this at all. They are clearly making a statement, even if it is unconscious, to everyone else about themselves. That in itself is useful information and as you said.. 'as long as they are decent people' that are sharing my time and mats with me then I am happy to train with them regardless how 'they choose to present themselves'.

I just prefer neat and tidy and presentable. And I find those that give off that vibe of 'hey check out the golden scrambled eggs all over my thrashed worn out black belt that I intentionally leave flopping out of my hakama for all to be in awe of' etc, to be the more 'interesting' ones to train with.

Last edited by Stephen Nichol : 12-15-2013 at 05:41 PM.
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Old 12-15-2013, 09:56 PM   #30
hughrbeyer
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Re: Belts sticking out

You can over-think this. I wear my belt the way my teacher does. End of story.

Evolution doesn't prove God doesn't exist, any more than hammers prove carpenters don't exist.
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Old 12-15-2013, 10:18 PM   #31
Stephen Nichol
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Re: Belts sticking out

Absolutely. My teacher and her teachers all keep them tucked inside the Hakama. Funny that only a few students do not and the teachers do not seem to make a big deal of it.

The original post was about if anyone else thought it looked silly. Of course it got derailed from there and so here we are, trying to get back on track.
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Old 12-16-2013, 07:35 AM   #32
lbb
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Re: Belts sticking out

Quote:
Hugh Beyer wrote: View Post
You can over-think this. I wear my belt the way my teacher does. End of story.
Indeed so. Making up stories about other people's motives and intentions is almost always a mistake.
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Old 12-16-2013, 08:41 AM   #33
Walter Martindale
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Re: Belts sticking out

My first black belt (from judo - it's too small now :-( ) has my surname on it in katakana - so that if it's on the floor somewhere and there are a lot of black belts around, it's not going to be used by someone else.

My current black belt (from aikido) has kanji "given to (my name in katakana), friend/brother" on one end and the name of that dojo on the other end - the dojo gives these to whomever grades to shodan through their training at that dojo.

I tie it the way my sensei - all of them - have tied it - yeah, the ends stick out - who cares? Why would it matter? If a person has a problem with the way someone wears their obi, whose problem is it, really?

Rocky - one of my sensei - said "he's got a black belt - that means you can throw him harder" He also said that if he's got a yellow belt (gokyu) you can throw him harder than a white belt, blue belt (yonkyu, sankyu) you can throw him harder, and a brown belt (nikyu, ikkyu) harder still.
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Old 12-16-2013, 08:52 AM   #34
Malicat
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Re: Belts sticking out

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Krystal Locke wrote: View Post
Krystal, both of those links make me not love you any more!

--Ashley
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Old 12-16-2013, 11:37 AM   #35
hughrbeyer
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Re: Belts sticking out

Are you kidding? I'm totally dying (heh heh) to show up at summer camp in one of the tie-dyed gi.

Evolution doesn't prove God doesn't exist, any more than hammers prove carpenters don't exist.
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Old 12-17-2013, 12:13 PM   #36
Dave Gallagher
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Re: Belts sticking out

Quote:
Walter Martindale wrote: View Post
My first black belt (from judo - it's too small now :-( ) has my surname on it in katakana - so that if it's on the floor somewhere and there are a lot of black belts around, it's not going to be used by someone else.

My current black belt (from aikido) has kanji "given to (my name in katakana), friend/brother" on one end and the name of that dojo on the other end - the dojo gives these to whomever grades to shodan through their training at that dojo.

I tie it the way my sensei - all of them - have tied it - yeah, the ends stick out - who cares? Why would it matter? If a person has a problem with the way someone wears their obi, whose problem is it, really?

Rocky - one of my sensei - said "he's got a black belt - that means you can throw him harder" He also said that if he's got a yellow belt (gokyu) you can throw him harder than a white belt, blue belt (yonkyu, sankyu) you can throw him harder, and a brown belt (nikyu, ikkyu) harder still.
....Walter, in my original post I did not say I had a problem with it. I only asked if anyone else thought it looked silly. I still think it's silly.

It is the duty of the strong to protect the weak.
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Old 12-17-2013, 08:14 PM   #37
Krystal Locke
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Re: Belts sticking out

Quote:
Ashley Hemsath wrote: View Post
Krystal, both of those links make me not love you any more!

--Ashley
Whaaaaattt? You aren't into the tie-dyed gi? Bazillion times better than the billboard of a uniform in the first link. I wouldn't be surprised to see an American Eagle gi, or Hollister, Aeropostale, Old Navy. Look how much TapouT and Affliction, Xtreme Couture, Metal Mulisha, SRH, and a whole bunch of other niche market clothing companies have entirely sold the fuck out. Read the Urban dictionary entry for TapoT, true

I'd be ok with a Levis or Carhartt hakama, though. We've all got our fetishes.....
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Old 12-17-2013, 09:03 PM   #38
Walter Martindale
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Re: Belts sticking out

Quote:
Dave Gallagher wrote: View Post
....Walter, in my original post I did not say I had a problem with it. I only asked if anyone else thought it looked silly. I still think it's silly.
Doesn't really matter. Does it? I think a lot of things are silly (not all in aikido).
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Old 12-19-2013, 12:32 AM   #39
Michael Varin
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Re: Belts sticking out

Sticking out or not, a judo/karate-style belt under an hakama is silly. Period.

I stopped wearing my black belt with my hakama about eight years ago and have never regretted it.

-Michael
"Through aiki we can feel the mind of the enemy who comes to attack and are thus able to respond immediately." - M. Mochizuki
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Old 12-19-2013, 01:12 AM   #40
SteliosPapadakis
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Re: Belts sticking out

Quote:
Michael Varin wrote: View Post
Sticking out or not, a judo/karate-style belt under an hakama is silly. Period.
Not necessarily, if you ask my own personal experience. Can be a matter of ergonomic acquaintance!
Without a belt under it, my hakama would just fly away each time my teacher throws me around. The only way to keep my hakama close to me is to tie it's belts around and through my inside belt. Tried all the other ways around and nothing works. Tying the hakama belts alone around my iliac bones creates pain than i cannot withstand.
So it always comes down to very personal somatic and psychic comfort, i reckon.
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Old 12-19-2013, 02:08 AM   #41
Michael Varin
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Re: Belts sticking out

Quote:
Stelios Papadakis wrote: View Post
Tried all the other ways around and nothing works. Tying the hakama belts alone around my iliac bones creates pain than i cannot withstand.
Wonder what they did for all those years?

-Michael
"Through aiki we can feel the mind of the enemy who comes to attack and are thus able to respond immediately." - M. Mochizuki
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Old 12-19-2013, 07:25 AM   #42
SteliosPapadakis
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Re: Belts sticking out

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Michael Varin wrote: View Post
Wonder what they did for all those years?
I did not call them sane, did i?
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Old 12-19-2013, 08:57 AM   #43
lbb
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Re: Belts sticking out

Quote:
Michael Varin wrote: View Post
Sticking out or not, a judo/karate-style belt under an hakama is silly. Period.
A belt doesn't make sense, but pants under a hakama does? I dunno. When I did shindo muso, we wore a blue keikogi, black belt (everyone), and black hakama. No pants. When I did karate, we wore white keikogi, white pants, and belt of whatever color. Now that I do aikido, we wear white keikogi, white pants, white or black belt, and some wear hakama in addition. If you want to judge any of it as "silly", why not judge ALL of it as "silly"? Or why not just leave the judgment aside and get on with it? If the clothing isn't particularly functional, surely the judgmentalism is even less so.
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Old 12-19-2013, 11:31 AM   #44
Dan Richards
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Re: Belts sticking out

Quote:
Dave Gallagher wrote: View Post
I was watching a few videos and I have noticed that some people like to have their rank belt sticking out of the side of their kakama. I am the only person who thinks this looks silly?
Sounds like students of this man. I'm one of them. We're all silly.


Last edited by Dan Richards : 12-19-2013 at 11:34 AM.

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Old 12-19-2013, 12:12 PM   #45
Keith Larman
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Re: Belts sticking out

Well, I think people who wear dress shoes look silly. And ties -- what the hell are those things for anyway? And don't get me started on bow ties...

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Old 12-19-2013, 12:18 PM   #46
Keith Larman
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Re: Belts sticking out

And half the stuff women wear remind me of ancient torture devices... Pointy shoes with tall but thin heels, skirts that seem to cut off circulation and they can't even walk in let alone sit down normally, and some weird undergarment called spanx that appear to be designed to raise blood pressure to dangerous levels. Honestly, am I the only one who thinks these things look silly? Give me jeans, a t-shirt and comfy shoes any day..

And what the hell is that colored stuff many women paint themselves with every day? Lord... Smearing paint on your face? That can't be healthy...

And to put in the final straw for me, I was at a shop and noticed a device with a long handle made for men so they could shave their backs... I'm pretty sure that if hair is growing out of something, it's *supposed* to be there.

Sigh. To be back in a time when stuff was "real" and not this pretentious stuff. You know, ZOOT SUITS!!!!!! Yeah, that's the ticket!!!! Give me some skin, baby!

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Old 12-19-2013, 05:57 PM   #47
Janet Rosen
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Re: Belts sticking out

Quote:
Keith Larman wrote: View Post
Sigh. To be back in a time when stuff was "real" and not this pretentious stuff. You know, ZOOT SUITS!!!!!! Yeah, that's the ticket!!!! Give me some skin, baby!
OOOH I'd love to train in a zoot suit, esp. with a long chain....

Janet Rosen
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Old 12-19-2013, 07:23 PM   #48
Michael Hackett
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Re: Belts sticking out

Man, someone wearing his belt exposed just absolutely ruins the quality of my life, the life of my family and loved ones, and completely denigrates the community I live in. Terrible, just terrible.

Michael
"Leave the gun. Bring the cannoli."
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Old 12-19-2013, 08:19 PM   #49
Keith Larman
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Re: Belts sticking out

Quote:
Janet Rosen wrote: View Post
OOOH I'd love to train in a zoot suit, esp. with a long chain....
Well, this swell guy is the bee's knees. His suit is going to hit on all the sixes. Ab-so-lutely the cat's meow... And from the rest of the cartoon, well, his ukemi is nifty!
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Old 12-20-2013, 12:43 AM   #50
Janet Rosen
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Re: Belts sticking out

Quote:
Keith Larman wrote: View Post
Well, this swell guy is the bee's knees. His suit is going to hit on all the sixes. Ab-so-lutely the cat's meow... And from the rest of the cartoon, well, his ukemi is nifty!
That would be SOOOOO cool over a striped hakama....

Janet Rosen
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